Farmers Threaten To Take Law Into Their Own Hands. What Can Be Done?

end of the road

josephryan1989 wrote: »

A report by Paul Williams in today's Irish Independent describes how swathes of rural Ireland are at the mercy of roving bands of burglars alleged by Williams and the farmers he interviewed as members of the travelling community. Tools, equipment, trailers, fuel and a range of other items have been stolen from properties and allegedly turn up at stalls and car boot sales.

Losing faith in the Gardaí who have little or no presence in rural localities since the closure or downgrading of rural stations, local farmers are claiming they are sleeping with shotguns and are threatening to take the law into their own hands and shoot intruders if the Gardaí won't help them.

What can be done?

anyone who takes the law into their own hands can't complain about others breaking the law. so these farmers can't complain about their stuff being stolen once they take the law into their own hands, they will have effectively condoned and legitimized the actions. what does need to happen is more funding and more gardai

end of the road

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

they should be armed to the teeth and given immunity from prosecution

to dangerous.

Ruu

Give the farmers cool nicknames.

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

6 houses around here were burgled in one night recently, they even went into one house while the family were asleep and one of the kids woke up to find 2 guys in the sitting room.

Another old man was tied up and robbed twice in the same week, now he's afraid to go to sleep at night.

I don't blame the Gardai, the local stations have all been closed and by the time they get here sure the boyos are long gone.

Nally had the right attitude, give them a bit of lead see how they like it.

not at all. this type of thing should not be encouraged.

end of the road

questionmark? wrote: »

Ah hold on lads. You can't be saying that travellers are involved in a lot of rural crime. It may be true but it's not PC.

only if you buy into so called pc. i and many others don't

demanufactured wrote: »

More Paidric Nally's needed.

no thanks

gctest50

Simon2015 wrote: »

The next Garda Commissioner should be Paidric Nally:pac:

Saint Paidric - got rid of the frog out of ireland

mud

A man died in Co. Limerick the week before last. He came home to find his house being ransacked and the shock killed him. Heart attack and gone just like that. Two of the three criminals were caught but that won't bring that man back. It's disgraceful.

Incidentally, a lot of people here think it's exclusively travellers.

Course a lot of these crimes are carried out by people from poor urban areas roaming the countryside.

Though some people don't like that said, they insist it's only travellers so then they can move to the "and they should be shot" part.

VinLieger

Deleted User wrote: »

Incidentally, a lot of people here think it's exclusively travellers.

Course a lot of these crimes are carried out by people from poor urban areas roaming the countryside.

Though some people don't like that said, they insist it's only travellers so then they can move to the "and they should be shot" part.

In fairness it doesn't matter if they are traveller's or not, scum that behaves like this should just be shot no matter where they are from.

Arbiter of Good Taste

end of the road wrote: »

anyone who takes the law into their own hands can't complain about others breaking the law. so these farmers can't complain about their stuff being stolen once they take the law into their own hands, they will have effectively condoned and legitimized the actions. what does need to happen is more funding and more gardai

Are you serious? No one should have the right to defend themselves or their property as that would legitimise the criminals?

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

In fairness it doesn't matter if they are traveller's or not, scum that behaves like this should just be shot no matter where they are from.

I really don't think so.

In the 1700s we hung people for theft. I don't think we should now arm people to prevent it, or stand back as they do so.

Plus suspect a lot of the article in the OP is Paul Williams hand flapping. I live in a rural area and I don't know anyone who would really want to shoot someone to prevent the theft of a power tool.

VinLieger

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Are you serious? No one should have the right to defend themselves or their property as that would legitimise the criminals?

LOL its just EotR and his usual "take the side of the argument least people agree with" routine, some might call him a troll, not saying thats what he is.... but some would :rolleyes:

VinLieger

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don't think so.

In the 1700s we hung people for theft. I don't think we should now arm people to prevent it, or stand back as they do so.

Plus suspect a lot of the article in the OP is Paul Williams hand flapping. I live in a rural area and I don't know anyone who would really want to shoot someone to prevent the theft of a power tool.

I agree a lot of it is likely hand flapping but im also a strong proponent of castle doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine which this country sorely needs.

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

I agree a lot of it is likely hand flapping but im also a strong proponent of castle doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine which this country sorely needs.

But it's not really likely to apply here.

Williams refers to trailers, fuel, tools etc. which are usually stored in sheds and might be nowhere near ones home.

Not that that makes the theft fine, but it makes response by lethal force more questionable.

Serjeant Buzfuz

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Only for Pavee Point would put a stop to it, you'd have the makings of one hell of a TV show there.....

It's part of their culture not to be filmed (except by insurance investigators)

Riskymove

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Not many repeat offenders. Corpses dont steal well.

indeed...including the corpses of the homeowners who end being killed...or the water meter reader who gets blown away by some paranoid homeowner

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

not at all. this type of thing should not be encouraged.

No, why not?

If some scrote comes into a persons house to steal and possibly hurt them the homeowner has a right to defend themselves.

Frog was going in to rob what he thought was a vulnerable old man, he soon found out there is only so much a person can take before they fight back.

323

Riskymove wrote: »

absolutely....I mean there is no burglary or theft in the USA:rolleyes:

No... but from my experience very, very few compared to Ireland.

6 years living over there, in the south, never heard of anyone I knew being burgled. Very few bothered with the expense of alarm systems, not needed. Generally seemed to be a lot less crime than what seems to be accepted as normal in Ireland. May be something to do with having the right to defend yourself, your property, your neighbor and his property also?

Back here I'm one of the very few locally that has not been burgled at least once in the last 5 years or so.

Putin

Let the farmers at it I say. If the Gardai can't protect them, then they've every right to protect themselves.

end of the road

Putin wrote: »

Let the farmers at it I say. If the Gardai can't protect them, then they've every right to protect themselves.

they don't. the gardai not being able to do their job due to underfunding is no justification for allowing people to break the law

Chemical Byrne

I wonder if this happened that someone **** a traveller and never reported it would a missing persons report be made to Gardai by the travellers given that they would be heavily involved in criminality and slow to get gaurds involved?

Mesrine65

end of the road wrote: »

they don't. the gardai not being able to do their job due to underfunding is no justification for allowing people to break the law

Hypothetically, you're in bed with your OH, you're kids are in bed asleep, you hear an intruder inside your home in the middle of the night...

You live in a rural area, Gardaí are not an option, you have to react to a perceived threat from within, you have a legally licensed firearm in the house...what would you do?

Notavirus.exe

end of the road wrote: »

they don't. the gardai not being able to do their job due to underfunding is no justification for allowing people to break the law

What you're saying is, preventing crime and defending yourself and your property is breaking the law?

So next time I see four guys in a van pull up outside my house and enter my property with axes and knives in hand, don't run for my shotgun?

custard gannet

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

a big "Everything's Free!" sign out on the road.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

That might be the best deterrent. They'd nearly not take it if they thought it was being given away, less buzz than robbing something off the buffers, as they call us.

Witcher

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

What you're saying is, preventing crime and defending yourself and your property is breaking the law?

So next time I see four guys in a van pull up outside my house and enter my property with axes and knives in hand, don't run for my shotgun?

According to your thread in the legal forum you don't have a gun so running for it would be fruitless:pac:

flutered

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No, why not?

If some scrote comes into a persons house to steal and possibly hurt them the homeowner has a right to defend themselves.

Frog was going in to rob what he thought was a vulnerable old man, he soon found out there is only so much a person can take before they fight back.

the travellers who roam depend on fear, there has been two instances hereabouts where folk have stood up to them, told them most unpolitely what to do with themselves, they left using not so very nice language, but they left

Notavirus.exe

Strider wrote: »

According to your thread in the legal forum you don't have a gun so running for it would be fruitless:pac:

I never said I didn't have one.

Witcher

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I never said I didn't have one.

You admitted you had no clue about the requirements to own one or the storage requirements so as someone who actually owns firearms I'd safely say you're bull****ting :pac:

Notavirus.exe

Strider wrote: »

You admitted you had no clue about the requirements to own one or the storage requirements so as someone who actually owns firearms I'd safely say you're bull****ting :pac:

I don't know about the official storage requirements but I have it kept locked in a gun cabinet, key at the ready.

enricoh

Are the Gardai underfunded though? How do we compare to the UK for cops per 100000 people?
I read in one of the paper's that the cops are pretty much on strike since their overtime was cut n pension levy brought in.
I gave up calling to the local station to get forms stamped etc as the doors would be locked n the bell was disconnected even though I could hear them talking inside. I don't bother ringing about thefts, attempted stuff etc unless I'm making an insurance claim now

323

end of the road wrote: »

anyone who takes the law into their own hands can't complain about others breaking the law. so these farmers can't complain about their stuff being stolen once they take the law into their own hands, they will have effectively condoned and legitimized the actions. what does need to happen is more funding and more gardai

But the Criminal Law Defence and the Dwelling Act 2011 recognises the constitutional position of a person's home and allows for a person to use reasonable force in defending their home.

With our legal system I guess its a case of wait and see what sets precedence as to what constitutes reasonable force.

Mesrine65

I have an old Webley Mark IV revolver that belonged to my grandfather from the old days.

I would safely state that there's a lot of unregistered firearms in this country.

RobertKK

I live alone in rural Ireland, and all this talk had me last night feeling paranoid.

Hans Bricks

Riskymove wrote: »

indeed...including the corpses of the homeowners who end being killed...or the water meter reader who gets blown away by some paranoid homeowner

Sure why bother defending yourself in your own home unless it's completely risk free ?? Tell me. Do you reckon a middle to pension aged adult stands a better chance fending off intruders with a deadly ranged weapon or hand to hand with groups of younger, stronger young males ?? The water meter reader analogy is just daft.

Old Jakey

Hopefully a few knackers get killed soon. Don't want to die? Don't break into someone's house.

Banned

Old Jakey

Old Jakey wrote: »

Hopefully a few knackers get killed soon. Don't want to die? Don't break into someone's house.

And young males from council estates in cities.

At least the itinerants don't fritter it away on their drug habits.

byhookorbycrook

Gardaí in Carlow set up a series of roadblocks last week, they caught enough dubious characters with stolen items/illegal weapons etc. to fill two prison vans. Rolling roadblocks like that are a good start. And it's not just farmers, by the by.
http://kclr96fm.com/gardai-launch-6-week-operation-storm-across-carlow-and-kilkenny/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

IH784man

If a lad wants to steal something he will get it,there is electric angle grinders,no matter what shed you have it in or what lock you have it in some c€nt will get in,a lock only keeps an honest person from being nosey,forgot the key to a lock for a field one day,opened it with a hammer.

end of the road

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I don't know about the official storage requirements but I have it kept locked in a gun cabinet, key at the ready.

so you have a licenced fire arm but don't know the storage requirements? i'm calling bull TBH.

PARlance

IH784man wrote: »

If a lad wants to steal something he will get it,there is electric angle grinders,no matter what shed you have it in or what lock you have it in some c€nt will get in,a lock only keeps an honest person from being nosey,forgot the key to a lock for a field one day,opened it with a hammer.

You could have just jumped the gate!

IH784man

PARlance wrote: »

You could have just jumped the gate!

Yea,so could the jeep and trailer and the sheep I was taking into the field!

PARlance

IH784man wrote: »

Yea,so could the jeep and trailer and the sheep I was taking into the field!

Hope you closed it after you. They can let a fierce draft in.

KKkitty

I think everyone should be given the right to defend their property as they see fit. If a burglar comes into your property and gets injured or whatever tough sh1t.

Notavirus.exe

KKkitty wrote: »

I think everyone should be given the right to defend their property as they see fit. If a burglar comes into your property and gets injured or whatever tough sh1t.

I wonder if we put up warning signs saying "trespassing may result in your head being blown off your shoulders. You have been warned" would we have the legal right to shoot?

**** it, I'd shoot anyway.

JJJJNR

Trabejo wrote: »

This isn't Baghdad or Aleepo. High spec military drones for **** sake? Just have a police car drive around a high risk area to be able to rapidly respond. Putting high spec drones up in the air is possibly the stupidest idea I have heard in a long time.

Why is it a stupid idea, its perfectly logical, drones could be used to police area's with far greater success than any car going around in circles could, they could cover 100's of miles relatively quickly and also react faster to 999 calls and double as sea and coast surveillance of drug smugglers.

Definitely the way forward, for 250 odd mill, there could be a fleet of very high spec drones policing and protecting our coastline and rural areas.

Notavirus.exe

JJJJNR wrote: »

Why is it a stupid idea, its perfectly logical, drones could be used to police area's with far greater success than any car going around in circles could, they could cover 100's of miles relatively quickly and also react faster to 999 calls and double as sea and coast surveillance of drug smugglers.

Definitely the way forward, for 250 odd mill, there could be a fleet of very high spec drones policing and protecting our coastline and rural areas.

And drones can also nuke any suspicious looking Transit vans driving around in rural areas at night.

oppenheimer1

josephryan1989 wrote: »

A report by Paul Williams in today's Irish Independent describes how swathes of rural Ireland are at the mercy of roving bands of burglars alleged by Williams and the farmers he interviewed as members of the travelling community. Tools, equipment, trailers, fuel and a range of other items have been stolen from properties and allegedly turn up at stalls and car boot sales.

Losing faith in the Gardaí who have little or no presence in rural localities since the closure or downgrading of rural stations, local farmers are claiming they are sleeping with shotguns and are threatening to take the law into their own hands and shoot intruders if the Gardaí won't help them.

What can be done?

The idea that the closure of rural garda stations has had any effect on the crime rate in rural areas is a total nonsense. Gardai in the rural stations were nothing more than idle bureaucrats whose sole job was to sign passport applications. Closing the stations and getting those guards out on patrol is a far more effective use of resources.

Crime in Ireland is actually falling, but fear is rising due to clowns like Williams.

JJJJNR

Its not fear, its the reality that many rural people face all the time, I've a relative who lives in Mayo and is very exposed, there have been many break-ins in the area, and there have been many dogs poisoned.

Fortunately the person has a gun and is not afraid to use it.

What surprises me most though, is the amount of gun licensed premises in this particular area that have never been robbed or broken into.

Simon2015

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Crime in Ireland is actually falling, but fear is rising due to clowns like Williams.

Thats BS crime is only going one way and thats up!


You can't believe the"crime figures" the gardas were caught out "re-classifying" crimes to make themselves look good. Alot of crime is not even reported because people believe nothing will be done about it.

There is so much crime in Ireland now compared with 30 years ago that people just accept crime as part of life, like when someone gets murdered it will only be the papers for about a day. Gangland shootings are now a regular occurrence in Ireland.


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/probe-into-massaging-of-garda-crime-stats-31209780.html

Simon2015

Simon2015 wrote: »

There is so much crime in Ireland now compared with 30 years ago that people just accept crime as part of life, like when someone gets murdered it will only be the papers for about a day. Gangland shootings are now a regular occurrence in Ireland.


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/probe-into-massaging-of-garda-crime-stats-31209780.html

I'm guessing the rampant child abuse has decreased for starters. And terrorist related activity.

But Paul Williams is right, maybe theft of power tools has gone up. And to stop someone taking our Black and Deckers, we gotta arm ourselves.