Farmers Threaten To Take Law Into Their Own Hands. What Can Be Done?

Riskymove

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Sure why bother defending yourself in your own home unless it's completely risk free ?? Tell me. Do you reckon a middle to pension aged adult stands a better chance fending off intruders with a deadly ranged weapon or hand to hand with groups of younger, stronger young males ?? The water meter reader analogy is just daft.

if you add guns to wound up elderly people convinced every caller is a possible burglar, there is definitely the possibility of an incident.

BTW it is worth nothing that the article in the OP is not about intruders in the home, which is a completely different scenario in my opinion.

kupus

If a home invasion occurs, can we not ask why this occurs. Why didn't the farmer lock the door more carefully, why didn't the farmer lock his windows more securely.
Why did the farmer not have adequate lighting and padlocks and dogs.
All in all its the farmers fault.

Mesrine65

kupus wrote: »

If a home invasion occurs, can we not ask why this occurs. Why didn't the farmer lock the door more carefully, why didn't the farmer lock his windows more securely.
Why did the farmer not have adequate lighting and padlocks and dogs.
All in all its the farmers fault.

Padlocks can easily & quietly be opened with a home-made shim from a drinks can, likewise a locked door can be opened with a credit card or a piece of plastic from a PET bottle/home-made bump key.

JJJJNR

kupus wrote: »

If a home invasion occurs, can we not ask why this occurs. Why didn't the farmer lock the door more carefully, why didn't the farmer lock his windows more securely.
Why did the farmer not have adequate lighting and padlocks and dogs.
All in all its the farmers fault.

Its a good point, for the most part there is a lot of literacy problems in rural Ireland, so people don't have access or the means to improve their own security. You just gave me a memory jolt, my relative turns off the security lights in the farm as !"the foxes"! keep knocking them on.. So there are many layers to over come with regards to the issue.

kupus

kupus wrote: »

If a home invasion occurs, can we not ask why this occurs. Why didn't the farmer lock the door more carefully, why didn't the farmer lock his windows more securely.
Why did the farmer not have adequate lighting and padlocks and dogs.
All in all its the farmers fault.

Um.

This thread is not really about home invasions.

The OP is about the theft of power tools and trailers. Now, living in a rural area, I have never seen a farmer bring his trailer into his home.

It's about theft.

Backpack20

I live in the southwest of limerick , and we had a number of break ins 2 weeks ago , just as things were starting to settle down , just yesterday evening a local man from the community seen 3 lads on top of a roof of a house trying to dismantle the security system while another two lads were in the house searching for valuables. Disgrace .

Backpack20

Backpack20 wrote: »

I live in the southwest of limerick , and we had a number of break ins 2 weeks ago , just as things were starting to settle down , just yesterday evening a local man from the community seen 3 lads on top of a roof of a house trying to dismantle the security system while another two lads were in the house searching for valuables. Disgrace .

Again, the OP...the OP...Paul Williams was hand flapping about farmers complaining about the theft of tools and trailers and fuel.

These things are not usually kept in houses.

We are talking about shooting someone driving off with an Ifor Williams trailer he nicked from some outhouse. Or your Black and Decker power washer that was lying in a shed.

asherbassad

Uriel. wrote: »

I think it's about time somebody did something. I certainly won't lose any sleep over a few dead criminals, travellers or otherwise

So you're advocating pre-trial death sentences for theft, are you?

asherbassad

jank wrote: »

Perhaps offer them training in the safe usage of guns?

Then when the Travellers arm themselves, and a few farmers have been shot or their kids have been wasted or had their hand blown off from an accidental discharge, maybe then we can train the farmers in the use of .50 cal SAW guns and equip the local village with a Bearcat MRAP to counter the armed creamers.

Maybe landmines planted around the shed where the shovels and hammers and saws are kept. The odd child or dog will get blown to atoms but that's collateral damage in the War on Tea-leafing.

asherbassad

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I was in the car driving on a road when I saw a Transit van with a traveler sitting in the driver seat on the right hand side of the road directly across from a house on the left. The next thing I saw was another traveler jumping over the garden wall with a football in his hand.

I mean, when you have to steal a FOOTBALL, come on, that's just sad.

Maybe the guy jumping the wall actually lived there and his friend in the Transit van was picking him up to go for a kickabout?

Why did he jump the wall? Late for the game? Excited? Just an athletic kind of guy?

topper75

asherbassad wrote: »

So you're advocating pre-trial death sentences for theft, are you?

Pre-trial?

I think the whole point of the thread has been lost on you.

There is no trial.

There will be no trial.

People find themselves no longer able to count on the justice system to deliver.

asherbassad

frostyjacks wrote: »

Better to have a gun and not need it, than need one and not have it.

Thanks for the cliche. The answer to all serious discussions.

asherbassad

VinLieger wrote: »

In fairness it doesn't matter if they are traveller's or not, scum that behaves like this should just be shot no matter where they are from.

Are you being serious or just joking?

asherbassad

VinLieger wrote: »

LOL its just EotR and his usual "take the side of the argument least people agree with" routine, some might call him a troll, not saying thats what he is.... but some would :rolleyes:

I'd say he just doesn't like to join the pitchforkers which seems to be your natural affiliation.

topper75

topper75 wrote: »

People find themselves no longer able to count on the justice system to deliver.

Still not sure that entitles anyone to take the law into their own hands over trailers and fuel.

asherbassad

VinLieger wrote: »

I agree a lot of it is likely hand flapping but im also a strong proponent of castle doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine which this country sorely needs.

You're a strong proponent of Castle Doctrine are you? How do you feel about property tax?

asherbassad

323 wrote: »

No... but from my experience very, very few compared to Ireland.

6 years living over there, in the south, never heard of anyone I knew being burgled. Very few bothered with the expense of alarm systems, not needed. Generally seemed to be a lot less crime than what seems to be accepted as normal in Ireland. May be something to do with having the right to defend yourself, your property, your neighbor and his property also?

Back here I'm one of the very few locally that has not been burgled at least once in the last 5 years or so.

Now compare that with the burglary rates of a similar area in Canada where gun ownership is lower than France and Norway and about the same as Austria or Germany.
If an area is pretty much crime free and there are no guns in the households and then you arm everyone to the teeth and the area remains crime free you can't honestly attribute the lack of crime to the prevalence of lethal weaponry.

asherbassad

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Gardaí in Carlow set up a series of roadblocks last week, they caught enough dubious characters with stolen items/illegal weapons etc. to fill two prison vans. Rolling roadblocks like that are a good start. And it's not just farmers, by the by.
http://kclr96fm.com/gardai-launch-6-week-operation-storm-across-carlow-and-kilkenny/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

Did they have warrants to search people's vehicles?

asherbassad

KKkitty wrote: »

I think everyone should be given the right to defend their property as they see fit. If a burglar comes into your property and gets injured or whatever tough sh1t.

The problem with your ill-thought-out statement is that it would give legal coverage to some sadistic psychopath who decided he wanted to shoot to death a couple of 8 year olds who were nicking a few apples from his tree.

It's easy to make these lazy sweeping statements and then backpedal when you realise that you put little or no thought into it.

topper75

Deleted User wrote: »

Still not sure that entitles anyone to take the law into their own hands over trailers and fuel.

But when the law isn't interested or is downright incapable on an ongoing basis? You have to just suffer it? Just take it on the chin and buy more heating oil. Fork out for another trailer.

asherbassad

JJJJNR wrote: »

Why is it a stupid idea, its perfectly logical, drones could be used to police area's with far greater success than any car going around in circles could, they could cover 100's of miles relatively quickly and also react faster to 999 calls and double as sea and coast surveillance of drug smugglers.

Definitely the way forward, for 250 odd mill, there could be a fleet of very high spec drones policing and protecting our coastline and rural areas.

So instead of having local police stations and recommending that farmers have a good, trained guard/attack dog you'd advocate a fleet of fucking drones hovering over the entire country 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. How many drones would you need to cover the entire country? To cover every square metre of the landscape at all times 24/7? 1000? 100,000, a million?
Then you would need an individual guy operating that fucking drone. That's 100's of 1000's of guys trained to fly these things. Would each drone have 3 designated operators working in 8 hours shifts to keep each of the thousands of drones aloft 24/7.
And what would be the criteria for "spotting" a burglary? The drone operators would have to be trained to differentiate between 3 lads coming home from the pub at 1am from 3 lads casing an area. They would have to also be made very familiar with every farm in their area of surveillance so that they can differentiate between a guy going into a building and seeing if there was anything to steal as opposed to the actual farmer going into that building at 2am to check that he remembered to put his tractor battery on charge or to see if any of the fucking cows were ready to calf.
After the months if not years of training these thousands of drone operators in thermal imaging and night vision techniques they would then be ready to determine what kind of activity was nefarious and do what with it exactly......that's right report it. But to whom? Oh yes.....a local police barracks that has been shutdown. So along with your drone program a few more 100's of millions will have to be spent to roll out "response centres". Maybe you could dream up some idiotic American acronym for these response centres like Countryside Response And Protection (C.R.A.P) precincts.
After you've spent the requisite billions to launch your bleeding edge surveillance project you can dazzle us with the figures of how it prevented the theft of 50 euros worth of diesel in Mourneabbey and 200 euros worth of spanners from a farm in Kilgarvan, but the rest of them got away because the SWAT teams from the C.R.A.P. precincts couldn't get there on time because they were asleep out of sheer boredom having to sit on their arseholes 24/7 waiting for a text message from a quad-copter that something iffy is going on up the road.

Definitely the way forward?

Your idea isn't a stupid one. It's a fucking cretinous one

Brianmeath

Garda in my area only target the easy lad. No tax or having a few pints. Won't go near the scum bags who run a muck week after week. Its a scandal.

rubadub

asherbassad wrote: »

Then when the Travellers arm themselves,

If there was a risk of death I expect they would simply take up other crimes as a means of income. Why risk being shot for a chainsaw when the same risk could get you a postoffice or bank's takings.

couple of 8 year olds who were nicking a few apples from his tree

Same, here the 8 year olds would be nicking bars from the local shop after mammy & daddy put the utter shits up them with stories of farmers being allowed to shoot them.

mud

I genuinely can't believe that some posters here are arguing semantics over break-ins!

Property is property and theft is theft.

So what if it's 'only' tools/kerosene/trailers, wtf should anyone put up with their stuff being taken?

To the poster who said that rural Garda stations don't make a difference I emphatically disagree with you. My local station closed in 2012 and crime rates have shot up around here. I'm not talking about robbing apples either. I'm talking about home invasions, ransacking, terrorism in a nutshell.

I mentioned about the man dying from a heart attack two weeks ago during a burglary. The Garda had to come in his own car as there wasn't a squad available. A local man helped him to run down those two criminals and they were arrested.

It's not just the Gardaí it's all services from ambulance to fire brigades. Rural Ireland is suffering and a solution has to be found before people get so terrified they start shooting at the first sign of trouble.

Men from my area made ill-considered remarks to the newspapers about sleeping with weapons etc to protect themselves. It's all true though. People are afraid of violence in the countryside. It's a damn shame.

JJJJNR

asherbassad wrote: »

So instead of having local police stations and recommending that farmers have a good, trained guard/attack dog you'd advocate a fleet of fucking drones hovering over the entire country 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. How many drones would you need to cover the entire country? To cover every square metre of the landscape at all times 24/7? 1000? 100,000, a million?
Then you would need an individual guy operating that fucking drone. That's 100's of 1000's of guys trained to fly these things. Would each drone have 3 designated operators working in 8 hours shifts to keep each of the thousands of drones aloft 24/7.
And what would be the criteria for "spotting" a burglary? The drone operators would have to be trained to differentiate between 3 lads coming home from the pub at 1am from 3 lads casing an area. They would have to also be made very familiar with every farm in their area of surveillance so that they can differentiate between a guy going into a building and seeing if there was anything to steal as opposed to the actual farmer going into that building at 2am to check that he remembered to put his tractor battery on charge or to see if any of the fucking cows were ready to calf.
After the months if not years of training these thousands of drone operators in thermal imaging and night vision techniques they would then be ready to determine what kind of activity was nefarious and do what with it exactly......that's right report it. But to whom? Oh yes.....a local police barracks that has been shutdown. So along with your drone program a few more 100's of millions will have to be spent to roll out "response centres". Maybe you could dream up some idiotic American acronym for these response centres like Countryside Response And Protection (C.R.A.P) precincts.
After you've spent the requisite billions to launch your bleeding edge surveillance project you can dazzle us with the figures of how it prevented the theft of 50 euros worth of diesel in Mourneabbey and 200 euros worth of spanners from a farm in Kilgarvan, but the rest of them got away because the SWAT teams from the C.R.A.P. precincts couldn't get there on time because they were asleep out of sheer boredom having to sit on their arseholes 24/7 waiting for a text message from a quad-copter that something iffy is going on up the road.

Definitely the way forward?

Your idea isn't a stupid one. It's a fucking cretinous one

TL:DR

Drones = 1000s of Jerbs

DarkyHughes

howamidifferent wrote: »

What can be done? Shoot them, twice, just to be sure...then kick them in the bollocks for good measure. It needs to be done because Gardai are non-existant in the countryside.

Except for the two who were assaulted in Dublin the other day.

asherbassad

JJJJNR wrote: »

TL:DR

Drones = 1000s of Jerbs

Producing what exactly? You could employ 1000's of people and pay them hundreds of millions of taxpayer euros to count grains of sand on dollymount beach. The result is the same.

asherbassad

rubadub wrote: »

If there was a risk of death I expect they would simply take up other crimes as a means of income. Why risk being shot for a chainsaw when the same risk could get you a postoffice or bank's takings.

Same, here the 8 year olds would be nicking bars from the local shop after mammy & daddy put the utter shits up them with stories of farmers being allowed to shoot them.

And if a nutter shot a little boy dead anyway for stealing a few apples or raspberries you'd be ok with that?

ressem

JJJJNR wrote: »

TL:DR

Drones = 1000s of Jerbs

Nah, tethered balloons at 20,000 ft; 10KM apart; with whatever the equivalent of the ARGUS-IS surveillance pod is at the time (built using using a grid of phone cameras, behind a lens)
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/146909-darpa-shows-off-1-8-gigapixel-surveillance-drone-can-spot-a-terrorist-from-20000-feet

And provide rural broadband capabilities with line-of-sight radio, if optical fiber and some power can be included in the balloon tether.

It would not be about watching every car, it would be about having a day or two of recorded movements to trace back car movements before and after a reported crime.

Pricy at the moment but it will reduce in price.

Serjeant Buzfuz

asherbassad wrote: »

Did they have warrants to search people's vehicles?

Don't need them depending on what they are searching for, bit of a technical area

end of the road

topper75 wrote: »

Pre-trial?

I think the whole point of the thread has been lost on you.

There is no trial.

There will be no trial.

People find themselves no longer able to count on the justice system to deliver.

only an excuse used by violent individuals to excuse their lust for violence

asherbassad

ressem wrote: »

Nah, tethered balloons at 20,000 ft; 10KM apart; with whatever the equivalent of the ARGUS-IS surveillance pod is at the time (built using using a grid of phone cameras, behind a lens)
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/146909-darpa-shows-off-1-8-gigapixel-surveillance-drone-can-spot-a-terrorist-from-20000-feet

And provide rural broadband capabilities with line-of-sight radio, if optical fiber and some power can be included in the balloon tether.

It would not be about watching every car, it would be about having a day or two of recorded movements to trace back car movements before and after a reported crime.

Pricy at the moment but it will reduce in price.

Pricy indeed. Don't forget to factor in the hundreds of millions in compensation claims when your balloons start bringing down commercial airliners. Or maybe you could re-direct all air traffic around Ireland. Just to monitor the possible theft of a few 20 quid shovels. I can tell you're not a businessman.

Hans Bricks

Talk about exaggerated and laughable scaremongering Asherbasssd. So we'll have reams of dead children, dogs, maimed elderly people and countless innocent dead because padhraig nally in remote mayo has a couple of dusty remingtons in his cabinet ??

I love my fellow city slickers sense of perspective. We should fear these harmless elderly folk who want to work their land and live in peace instead of the roaming dregs who tie them to chairs, ransack their homes then beat them within an inch of their lives. You lot really think someone living remotely out of efficient reach of emergency services should put themselves at risk because crime apologists on boards make daft analogies of pure whataboutery? ? "Sure it's just theft".

**** off

Notavirus.exe

Gardai need proper weapons.

What can a Garda do when there's a ****ing chainsaw maniac running at them and all they have is pepper spray and a little stick?

Hans Bricks

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Talk about exaggerated and laughable scaremongering Asherbasssd. So we'll have reams of dead children, dogs, maimed elderly people and countless innocent dead because padhraig nally in remote mayo has a couple of dusty remingtons in his cabinet ??

I love my fellow city slickers sense of perspective. We should fear these harmless elderly folk who want to work their land and live in peace instead of the roaming dregs who tie them to chairs, ransack their homes then beat them within an inch of their lives. You lot really think someone living remotely out of efficient reach of emergency services should put themselves at risk because crime apologists on boards make daft analogies of pure whataboutery? ? "Sure it's just theft".

**** off

Um...in responding to what you say is scaremongering, you talk about people roaming the lands to beat up the elderly?

The point in the OP had nothing to do with beatings, murder, rape or whatever other crimes against the person may take place. It was about farmers using guns to protect trailers, tools and fuel.

Notavirus.exe

Is this story even legit or is it just "all bark and no bite" from the farmers?

Hans Bricks

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Um...in responding to what you say is scaremongering, you talk about people roaming the lands to beat up the elderly?

The point in the OP had nothing to do with beatings, murder, rape or whatever other crimes against the person may take place. It was about farmers using guns to protect trailers, tools and fuel.

Well we've had more than enough examples wouldn't you agree ?? Okay not roaming to specifically beat up old people but it goes hand in hand with rural burglary.

I thought this thread was about farmers defending themselves in general ?? Cases like padhraig nally being one in point. The way I see it the only ones who need genuinely worry about shotgun toting farmers are thieving scumbags.

EDIT * I would only support a means tested gun license depending on proximity to emergency services. Not a gun ho American situation

Notavirus.exe

Hans Bricks wrote: »

The way I see it the only ones who need genuinely worry about shotgun toting farmers are thieving scumbags.

Or the unsuspecting postman...

byhookorbycrook

It may "just" be tools or animals to some people, but to farmers it's their livelihood.
Have people forgotten http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0629/711505-kilbeggan-cattle/
100 cattle would represent the life's work of this family. You can't just go and buy more of the stock they built up over years.

Hans Bricks

Hans Bricks wrote: »

I thought this thread was about farmers defending themselves in general ?? Cases like padhraig nally being one in point. The way I see it the only ones who need genuinely worry about shotgun toting farmers are thieving scumbags.

The OP doesn't mention "defence in general", or offences against the person, or assault, or tying up and ransacking etc. etc.

It refers to burglaries, specifically the theft of "tools, equipment, trailers, fuel and a range if other items...stolen from properties...". The 4 specified items are invariably stored in sheds.

josephryan1989 wrote: »

A report by Paul Williams in today's Irish Independent describes how swathes of rural Ireland are at the mercy of roving bands of burglars alleged by Williams and the farmers he interviewed as members of the travelling community. Tools, equipment, trailers, fuel and a range of other items have been stolen from properties and allegedly turn up at stalls and car boot sales.

byhookorbycrook

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

It may "just" be tools or animals to some people, but to farmers it's their livelihood.
Have people forgotten http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0629/711505-kilbeggan-cattle/
100 cattle would represent the life's work of this family. You can't just go and buy more of the stock they built up over years.

Oh rustling is a horrible thing to do.

Though that's usually more "farmer on farmer" crime!

asherbassad

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Talk about exaggerated and laughable scaremongering Asherbasssd. So we'll have reams of dead children, dogs, maimed elderly people and countless innocent dead because padhraig nally in remote mayo has a couple of dusty remingtons in his cabinet ??

I love my fellow city slickers sense of perspective. We should fear these harmless elderly folk who want to work their land and live in peace instead of the roaming dregs who tie them to chairs, ransack their homes then beat them within an inch of their lives. You lot really think someone living remotely out of efficient reach of emergency services should put themselves at risk because crime apologists on boards make daft analogies of pure whataboutery? ? "Sure it's just theft".

**** off

That was a brilliant rant of sh1t. Sure, knock yourself out with your rubbish about read of dead children etc. ....and then accuse ME of scaremongering. Yeah, a half blond octogenarian who can be tied to a chair and punched up until he divulges the location of the money jar is suddenly going to transform into a cross between Dirty Harry and the Terminator in a night gown if he has a 12 gauge.
And we're not talking about scumbags terrorising pensioners here, we're talking about theft of equipment.

the_syco

josephryan1989 wrote: »

What can be done?

Stop laughing, and reload.

end of the road wrote: »

they will have effectively condoned and legitimized the actions

So if they break into your house, and rape your other half, if you attack them you are legitimizing the rape?

Deleted User wrote: »

Course a lot of these crimes are carried out by people from poor urban areas roaming the countryside.

Bullets don't discriminate...

asherbassad wrote: »

The problem with your ill-thought-out statement is that it would give legal coverage to some sadistic psychopath who decided he wanted to shoot to death a couple of 8 year olds who were nicking a few apples from his tree.

The law wouldn't stop the psychopath killing anyone...

asherbassad wrote: »

Your idea isn't a stupid one. It's a fucking cretinous one

A decent drone costs a few thousand. The drones that cost a 25 million are the ones that see through clouds, and dust. Those are of no use to the Gardai, mainly as the four missiles on the one drone would usually cost over €285,000

Have some Garda trained on how to fly one. One drone would be cheaper to run and maintain than a Garda chopper, and harder to spot.

Two or three drones could document suspicious activity in a wide area, without the thieves knowing that they were there, and allow those on the ground where to be.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

So if they break into your house, and rape your other half, if you attack them you are legitimizing the rape?.

This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with rape.

It's about stealing trailers and tools. From farms.

end of the road

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Talk about exaggerated and laughable scaremongering Asherbasssd. So we'll have reams of dead children, dogs, maimed elderly people and countless innocent dead because padhraig nally in remote mayo has a couple of dusty remingtons in his cabinet ??

yes. the irish general public could not be trusted with weapons. the current system for getting a fire arm is how it should remain.

Hans Bricks wrote: »

I love my fellow city slickers sense of perspective. We should fear these harmless elderly folk who want to work their land and live in peace instead of the roaming dregs who tie them to chairs, ransack their homes then beat them within an inch of their lives.

both should be if they have access to fire arms or other weapons.

Hans Bricks wrote: »

You lot really think someone living remotely out of efficient reach of emergency services should put themselves at risk because crime apologists on boards make daft analogies of pure whataboutery? ? "Sure it's just theft".

no, they should because the law applies to them. they are nothing special, and they don't deserve exemptions just because they live remotely. and thats coming from someone who does live remotely

Hans Bricks

asherbassad wrote: »

That was a brilliant rant of sh1t. Sure, knock yourself out with your rubbish about read of dead children etc. ....and then accuse ME of scaremongering. Yeah, a half blond octogenarian who can be tied to a chair and punched up until he divulges the location of the money jar is suddenly going to transform into a cross between Dirty Harry and the Terminator in a night gown if he has a 12 gauge.
And we're not talking about scumbags terrorising pensioners here, we're talking about theft of equipment.

I was referring to you since you're the one who mentioned dead children etc. The point being the "octogenarian" might not be worth the bother since he's armed with a 12 gauge. Better than standing there in his night gown with his dick in his hand.

Do you really believe the people who carry out these thefts are any different or incapable of even being the very type of person who would take it to that level of violence if needs be ?

mynamejeff

end of the road wrote: »

anyone who takes the law into their own hands can't complain about others breaking the law. so these farmers can't complain about their stuff being stolen once they take the law into their own hands, they will have effectively condoned and legitimized the actions. what does need to happen is more funding and more gardai

???

Its the victims fault for trying to defend them self ? i cant believe that this is your actually opinion. surely there's some bridge dwelling here no ?

Rural communities have been targeted by these thieving creatures for the past 20 or so years and they have finally started to have enough.

Isnt it very very clear to some one who has the ability to understand even a very basic concept that these rural communities are reacting to something not the other way around ?

mynamejeff

mynamejeff wrote: »

Isnt it very very clear to some one who has the ability to understand even a very basic concept that these rural communities are reacting to something not the other way around ?

Isn't it very clear to someone who had the ability to understand even a very basic concept that no Ifor Williams trailer, no strimmer or no baler is worth the life of a human being?

end of the road

mynamejeff wrote: »

???

Its the victims fault for trying to defend them self ? i cant believe that this is your actually opinion. surely there's some bridge dwelling here no ?

Rural communities have been targeted by these thieving creatures for the past 20 or so years and they have finally started to have enough.

Isnt it very very clear to some one who has the ability to understand even a very basic concept that these rural communities are reacting to something not the other way around ?

these rural communities are nothing special, and no more deserving of anything then the rest of the country. the law applies to them as much as those living in towns and our cities.

the_syco

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't it very clear to someone who had the ability to understand even a very basic concept that no Ifor Williams trailer, no strimmer or no baler is worth the life of a human being?

If you do the crime, be prepared to pay the price. Currently, people are stealing stuff left right and centre without any repercussions. From the article in the OP, it sounds like enough is enough, and people are going to fight back.