All Ireland Football Final Kerry -v- Dublin WARNING POST #110

noway12345

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It is amateur. Money isn't paid to the ayers but thee are doctors, trainers, coaches, physio, breaks away, equipment... These things cost money.

The Senior Intercounty team does not cost 4m a year or anything like it.

AIG pay a million a year to sponsor all male and female Dublin teams. Hardly likely to help 4 million a year you heard be true.

I thought the fella that was saying it was exaggerating or something alright. He did mention that Dublin have a huge backroom team, the whole thing came up because I asked about Bernhard Dunne who I seen on the sideline, he's apparently involved with Dublin aswell. Do you know if the details for how much every county spends is released?

LaGlisse

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It is amateur. Money isn't paid to the ayers but thee are doctors, trainers, coaches, physio, breaks away, equipment... These things cost money.

The Senior Intercounty team does not cost 4m a year or anything like it.

AIG pay a million a year to sponsor all male and female Dublin teams. Hardly likely to help 4 million a year you heard be true.

Lol,if you believe the Dublin football team is amateur I have some magic beans to sell you

noway12345

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You can't hold Dublin to account for how the GAA's funds are allotted. Not saying it's necessarily right for one team to get so much and others so little, but I doubt it's something they themselves have control over.

It is amateur as a far as I am aware....I think you can be sure that none of that money went into the players pockets.

Right, I'm just asking here. I thought it was strange. Surely everyone has doctors etc and everyone's spending the same?

noway12345

listermint wrote: »

Bit your head off ?

Being very precious and asking silly questions are 2 different things.

You claim to not watch Dublin or GAA and then come in asking questions about funding, what is your reasoning ?

Odd

There you go again. I'm just wondering what the story is, no need to be so defensive!

noway12345

LaGlisse wrote: »

Lol,if you believe the Dublin football team is amateur I have some magic beans to sell you

Do you have any details of this?

homerjay2005

Slattsy wrote: »

2014 final was terrible.

it was, but yesterday was absolutely horrific.

BonnieSituation

homerjay2005 wrote: »

it was, but yesterday was absolutely horrific.

I know its a tough sell. But rewatch it. It's actually grand. Tactically it was wonderful.

listermint

homerjay2005 wrote: »

it was, but yesterday was absolutely horrific.

Bit of an over statement tbh.

I disliked last years more, as stated earlier in the thread i though the first half was actually reasonable enough tbf.

Slattsy

I thought yesterday's final was glorious tbh.

mobby

For Kerry supporters maybe ;-) . apart for the horrible day it was, I enjoyed the game.

AudreyHepburn

noway12345 wrote: »

Right, I'm just asking here. I thought it was strange. Surely everyone has doctors etc and everyone's spending the same?

But why is it strange? Doctors physics, trainers, coaches, equipment, jerseys, transport.....all these things cost money.

noway12345

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But why is it strange? Doctors physics, trainers, coaches, equipment, jerseys, transport.....all these things cost money.

But 4 million? Surely everyone isn't spending that much?

robbiezero

homerjay2005 wrote: »

its probably the worst all ireland final in the TV generation. would be interesting to get neutral opinion here also, i would think most neutrals found the game absolutely appaling.

Yep, awful game. But last years one was not much better and there was no conditions to blame.
It's a pity about the conditions because both teams were set up to have a good go at each other, there would have been none of the ultra-defensiveness seen in the previous year.

Nidgeweasel

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

It was the worst all Ireland final I've ever seen, conditions ruined it. The amount of dropped ball and slips was comical. I'll watch it again on tv this time and that might change my mind.

I can't believe people actually think it was a decent game. Beggars belief.

That first half was utterly abysmal.

Again, a lot as a result of the conditions. Jesus it was a brutal watch.

Gael85

noway12345 wrote: »

But 4 million? Surely everyone isn't spending that much?

I don't know where your getting 4 million? Your friend in the pub was obviously exaggerating.

LeinsterDub

Gael85 wrote: »

I know where your getting 4 million? Your friend in the pub was obviously exaggerating.

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/counties-sixfigure-budget-deficits-have-gaa-on-alert-29051723.html

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/kerry-gaa-spent-an-eye-watering-amount-to-win-this-years-all-ireland/4769

The_Honeybadger

Gael85 wrote: »

I know where your getting 4 million? Your friend in the pub was obviously exaggerating.

I think he is referring to a games development grant that Dublin received a nimber of years ago through the Irish sports council. It was a special grant to develop the games in Dublin that was not available to other counties. Ironically it was a kerryman, Sean Kelly who was gaa president at the time, and he was instrumental in arranging the funding. You'd have to say the move worked really well.

I have no idea what Dublin spend annually on running the team. The figure is probably available within their audited accounts of anybody is really that interested.

noway12345

Gael85 wrote: »

I don't know where your getting 4 million? Your friend in the pub was obviously exaggerating.

Well no one seems to know how much, I haven't looked but is this sort of information released?

noway12345

LeinsterDub wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/counties-sixfigure-budget-deficits-have-gaa-on-alert-29051723.html

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/kerry-gaa-spent-an-eye-watering-amount-to-win-this-years-all-ireland/4769

According to those links Dublin spent 1.6 million euro in 2012. Kerry spent 1 million euro last year. Has Dublins spend gone up since 2012, the AIG deal was after that? This is serious money, how can they get that much?

noway12345

mickeyk wrote: »

I think he is referring to a games development grant that Dublin received a nimber of years ago through the Irish sports council. It was a special grant to develop the games in Dublin that was not available to other counties. Ironically it was a kerryman, Sean Kelly who was gaa president at the time, and he was instrumental in arranging the funding. You'd have to say the move worked really well.

I have no idea what Dublin spend annually on running the team. The figure is probably available within their audited accounts of anybody is really that interested.

What's this Irish sports Council grant? Wouldn't that be divided amongst all GAA counties?

The_Honeybadger

noway12345 wrote: »

What's this Irish sports Council grant? Wouldn't that be divided amongst all GAA counties?

Back in the middle of the 00s Dublin were granted 1m per year over 8 years (iirc) to develop the games in the capital. This was a special measure to help Dublin following years of underachievement. The money came through the isc and was ring fenced for Dublin. No other county was able to apply for it. If you want to know more about it google it.

JK.BMC

noway12345 wrote: »

What's this Irish sports Council grant? Wouldn't that be divided amongst all GAA counties?

Ah here! Stop asking reasonable questions, cos you're not gonna get any proper answers. I asked earlier about gouging another player in the eye - nobody seems to know anything about the rule for that either.

The dominant attitude is "Dubs won - who gives a fxxx, the championship is over" That's the current state of the GAA methinks.

Shurimgreat

Very difficult for the Longfords, Carlows and even Kildares and Meaths to compete with what Dublin spend at senior and under age level. Its becoming a bit ridiculous at this stage.

Dublin will win Leinster next year and probably the next 9 or 10 years. They are also assured AI finals for much of the next decade and a number of AI wins.

Do we really need this kind of predictability.

Its becoming a bit like the Scottish Premier League and Celtic. Certainly the Leinster Championship is.

People have stopped taking Leinster seriously at this stage.

GAA football is fast ceasing to be a "sport" and just a procession for the likes of Dublin.

Nidgeweasel

Some very sick looking people clad in GAA gear in Dublin airport.

I trust it was a good night in the capital.

BonnieSituation

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Very difficult for the Longfords, Carlows and even Kildares and Meaths to compete with what Dublin spend at senior and under age level. Its becoming a bit ridiculous at this stage.

Dublin will win Leinster next year and probably the next 9 or 10 years. They are also assured AI finals for much of the next decade and a number of AI wins.

Do we really need this kind of predictability.

Its becoming a bit like the Scottish Premier League and Celtic. Certainly the Leinster Championship is.

People have stopped taking Leinster seriously at this stage.

GAA football is fast ceasing to be a "sport" and just a procession for the likes of Dublin.

And it was ever thus.

Kerry and Dublin hoovering up Provincials and All Ireland have been par for the course. Other counties have always played second fiddle. This is nothing new.

Shurimgreat

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And it was ever thus.

Kerry and Dublin hoovering up Provincials and All Ireland have been par for the course. Other counties have always played second fiddle. This is nothing new.

Yes, but as I said, its ceasing to be a "sport" with unpredictable outcomes and more a case of the county with the most resources winning every year, the same as Formula 1, La Liga, Scottish Premiership and a couple other "sports".

I'd rather the GAA didn't turn into one of those sports where the moneybag teams can buy success. In other words Dublin are like the Manchester City of Gaelic football.

MonsterCookie

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Yes, but as I said, its ceasing to be a "sport" with unpredictable outcomes and more a case of the county with the most resources winning every year, the same as Formula 1, La Liga, Scottish Premiership and a couple other "sports".

I'd rather the GAA didn't turn into one of those sports where the moneybag teams can buy success. In other words Dublin are like the Manchester City of Gaelic football.

And Kilkenny?

LeinsterDub

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And it was ever thus.

Kerry and Dublin hoovering up Provincials and All Ireland have been par for the course. Other counties have always played second fiddle. This is nothing new.

Exactly Dublin and Kerry didn't win 63 titles between them today or yesterday or this decade or last

noway12345

mickeyk wrote: »

Back in the middle of the 00s Dublin were granted 1m per year over 8 years (iirc) to develop the games in the capital. This was a special measure to help Dublin following years of underachievement. The money came through the isc and was ring fenced for Dublin. No other county was able to apply for it. If you want to know more about it google it.

Ok I might google that later. Would it be fair to say though that that money has at least some part to play in Dublin winning 3 out of the last 5 isn't it? It seems a little unfair but like I said I might google it later to find out the reasons for it.

noway12345

JK.BMC wrote: »

Ah here! Stop asking reasonable questions, cos you're not gonna get any proper answers. I asked earlier about gouging another player in the eye - nobody seems to know anything about the rule for that either.

The dominant attitude is "Dubs won - who gives a fxxx, the championship is over" That's the current state of the GAA methinks.

Dublin people seem very sensitive over these questions. We're just asking!

LeinsterDub

noway12345 wrote: »

Ok I might google that later. Would it be fair to say though that that money has at least some part to play in Dublin winning 3 out of the last 5 isn't it? It seems a little unfair but like I said I might google it later to find out the reasons for it.

That was kind of the point. Dublin GAA was on its knees. Couldn't even win a Leinster for years

noway12345

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And it was ever thus.

Kerry and Dublin hoovering up Provincials and All Ireland have been par for the course. Other counties have always played second fiddle. This is nothing new.

I used to watch more football and hurling in the 70's and 80's. Then Kerry and Dublin ruled football. Didn't it change though with a lot of Ulster teams winning and Galway won a few and Meath and others?

Shurimgreat

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Exactly Dublin and Kerry didn't win 63 titles between them today or yesterday or this decade or last

Yes we know that. Generally counties (apart from Kerry) go through cycles of barren spells and then success. Fair play to Dublin in one way, they have managed to crack the nut of having virtually unlimited resources in comparision to other counties.

But if you were to be objective about it and take off the Dublin jersey, Leinster has never been more of a farce. There's only genuinely three counties who can win an AI at the moment and for the foreseeable future. And 29 other counties are competing in a competition so skewed against them they might as well not compete.

I was never been part of the "take dubs out of Croker" brigade. It is what it is. But when you look at how many advantages that are handed to Dublin, it makes a mockery of the AI. Its become a joke at this stage. Home advantage in every game, including in an AI final...more than twice the population of the rest of Leinster combined. Probably more money spent than the rest of Leinster combined. And so on. How many advantages can you give one team without it becoming laughable?

noway12345

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Exactly Dublin and Kerry didn't win 63 titles between them today or yesterday or this decade or last

Did they not mention yesterday that Dublin had only won one in 30 years or something prior to this run?

The_Honeybadger

noway12345 wrote: »

Ok I might google that later. Would it be fair to say though that that money has at least some part to play in Dublin winning 3 out of the last 5 isn't it? It seems a little unfair but like I said I might google it later to find out the reasons for it.

The younger players on the Dublin panel would have benefitted from good coaching and facilities etc, so yes I suppose it would have played a part. You must remember that Dublin were in crisis when this money was allocated, and hadn't won a title in over a decade. Dublin generate huge interest in the game when they are going well so a good Dublin team is very good for the GAA overall.

The money was obviously spent well so fair play to them.

noway12345

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That was kind of the point. Dublin GAA was on its knees. Couldn't even win a Leinster for years

But haven't other counties not won things for years? Why Dublin? I'm not having a go hear I just want to know the reasons.

noway12345

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Yes we know that. Generally counties (apart from Kerry) go through cycles of barren spells and then success. Fair play to Dublin in one way, they have managed to crack the nut of having virtually unlimited resources in comparision to other counties.

But if you were to be objective about it and take off the Dublin jersey, Leinster has never been more of a farce. There's only genuinely three counties who can win an AI at the moment and for the foreseeable future. And 29 other counties are competing in a competition so skewed against them they might as well not compete.

I was never been part of the "take dubs out of Croker" brigade. It is what it is. But when you look at how many advantages that are handed to Dublin, it makes a mockery of the AI. Its become a joke at this stage. Home advantage in every game, including in an AI final...more than twice the population of the rest of Leinster combined. Probably more money spent than the rest of Leinster combined. And so on. How many advantages can you give one team without it becoming laughable?

It does seem a bit unfair when you put it like that. What sort of money are other teams spending? Someone posted a link that showed Kerry spent 1 million euros last year. Do you have to spend big money to get to an All Ireland?

noway12345

mickeyk wrote: »

The younger players on the Dublin panel would have benefitted from good coaching and facilities etc, so yes I suppose it would have played a part. You must remember that Dublin were in crisis when this money was allocated, and hadn't won a title in over a decade. Dublin generate huge interest in the game when they are going well so a good Dublin team is very good for the GAA overall.

The money was obviously spent well so fair play to them.

Like I asked though, aren't other teams struggling? Fair play to Dublin for winning their All Irelands but it seems a bit unfair.

BonnieSituation

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Yes, but as I said, its ceasing to be a "sport" with unpredictable outcomes and more a case of the county with the most resources winning every year, the same as Formula 1, La Liga, Scottish Premiership and a couple other "sports".

I'd rather the GAA didn't turn into one of those sports where the moneybag teams can buy success. In other words Dublin are like the Manchester City of Gaelic football.

I don't know how you think it's predictable.

3/5 and since 2010 we've had Cork v Down and Donegal v Mayo and Kerry.

How the hell is that predictable?

Kerry were barely fancied to win Munster last year and they won a championship.
That's unpredictable.

Fermanagh won through to a QF.
That's unpredictable.

Monaghan have won 2/3 ulsters and Donegal 3/5.
That's unpredictable.

And so on...

Shurimgreat

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I don't know how you think it's predictable.

3/5 and since 2010 we've had Cork v Down and Donegal v Mayo and Kerry.

How the hell is that predictable?

Kerry were barely fancied to win Munster last year and they won a championship.
That's unpredictable.

Fermanagh won through to a QF.
That's unpredictable.

Monaghan have won 2/3 ulsters and Donegal 3/5.
That's unpredictable.

And so on...

You know what I meant, predictable that Dublin will win Leinster and themselves and 1 or 2 big spending counties will win the AI. Predictable in the way the Scottish Premiership is predictable or how there is an elite in La Liga. Do we really want Gaelic football to go down this road? Its probably too late to answer that at this stage as it already has.

The point I'm trying to make is there should at least be some attempt at a level playing field in the sport in terms of resources. Maybe it all goes back to organising a competition based around counties, where there is a huge disparity in populations and resources. It puts limits on certain counties. At least in professional sport weaker teams can buy and sell their way towards improvement.

The_Honeybadger

noway12345 wrote: »

Like I asked though, aren't other teams struggling? Fair play to Dublin for winning their All Irelands but it seems a bit unfair.

The population is in Dublin so it makes sense to direct a lot of resources there. The idea is to get participation up, get more kids playing etc. the amount of kids around yesterday with Dublin jerseys was unreal. Like I said above when the dubs are going well it's good for the sport generally.

I suppose it's tough on the teams like Kildare etc but what do you do. Mayo, Kerry, Donegal, Tyrone and cork have all had good teams in the past ten years without all this money so it can be done. Anyway, we've derailed the thread completely, won't be posting on this issue again.

BonnieSituation

Shurimgreat wrote: »

You know what I meant, predictable that Dublin will win Leinster and themselves and 1 or 2 big spending counties will win the AI. Predictable in the way the Scottish Premiership is predictable or how there is an elite in La Liga. Do we really want Gaelic football to go down this road? Its probably too late to answer that at this stage as it already has.

The point I'm trying to make is there should at least be some attempt at a level playing field in the sport in terms of resources. Maybe it all goes back to organising a competition based around counties, where there is a huge disparity in populations and resources. It puts limits on certain counties. At least in professional sport weaker teams can buy and sell their way towards improvement.

The playing field is now level. We can actually match Kerry and Tyrone and the rest and win All Irelands.

LeinsterDub

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Yes we know that. Generally counties (apart from Kerry) go through cycles of barren spells and then success. Fair play to Dublin in one way, they have managed to crack the nut of having virtually unlimited resources in comparision to other counties.

But if you were to be objective about it and take off the Dublin jersey, Leinster has never been more of a farce. There's only genuinely three counties who can win an AI at the moment and for the foreseeable future. And 29 other counties are competing in a competition so skewed against them they might as well not compete.

I was never been part of the "take dubs out of Croker" brigade. It is what it is. But when you look at how many advantages that are handed to Dublin, it makes a mockery of the AI. Its become a joke at this stage. Home advantage in every game, including in an AI final...more than twice the population of the rest of Leinster combined. Probably more money spent than the rest of Leinster combined. And so on. How many advantages can you give one team without it becoming laughable?

Advantages they had during the lean years too.

Lots of good work and long hours have been spent to get Dublin to this level. Barring some radical changes nothing can be done about these advantages. How ever I would have no issue with money being redistributed and a 'Dublin project' being created in Meath, Kildare and other targeted counties

noway12345

mickeyk wrote: »

The population is in Dublin so it makes sense to direct a lot of resources there. The idea is to get participation up, get more kids playing etc. the amount of kids around yesterday with Dublin jerseys was unreal. Like I said above when the dubs are going well it's good for the sport generally.

I suppose it's tough on the teams like Kildare etc but what do you do. Mayo, Kerry, Donegal, Tyrone and cork have all had good teams in the past ten years without all this money so it can be done. Anyway, we've derailed the thread completely, won't be posting on this issue again.

Alright, it is good that more people are playing the sport in Dublin. All the kids with the jerseys is great. Maybe there's anough money to do the same in other counties as in Dublin? That might even it out a bit because great and all that it is I just think it's a little unfair for one county to get more. It's like in rugby, Connacht get far less than the others and I think that's unfair.

Jippo

Shurimgreat wrote: »

You know what I meant, predictable that Dublin will win Leinster and themselves and 1 or 2 big spending counties will win the AI. Predictable in the way the Scottish Premiership is predictable or how there is an elite in La Liga. Do we really want Gaelic football to go down this road? Its probably too late to answer that at this stage as it already has.

What sport doesn't have a small number of dominant teams?

noway12345

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The playing field is now level. We can actually match Kerry and Tyrone and the rest and win All Irelands.

Did Kerry and Tyrone get Irish Sports Council funding also?

noway12345

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Advantages they had during the lean years too.

Lots of good work and long hours have been spent to get Dublin to this level. Barring some radical changes nothing can be done about these advantages. How ever I would have no issue with money being redistributed and a 'Dublin project' being created in Meath, Kildare and other targeted counties

Why targeted counties? Why not all of them? Not enough money?

noway12345

Jippo wrote: »

What sport doesn't have a small number of dominant teams?

American football?

Shurimgreat

Jippo wrote: »

What sport doesn't have a small number of dominant teams?

It can't be controlled in other sports, although an attempt at financial fair play was made and failed.

In summary, Dublin have a top of the range professional approach, and I'd imagine their backroom team would dwarf many English premier league backroom teams, with a similar level of expertise.

Then there are other counties scraping by with shambolic amateur setups largely due to a lack of finances. That's one example.

I'm not going to derail the thread either. Good luck to Dublin on their win. From a neutrals point of view however, the AI is being skewed towards counties with unlimited resources to the detriment of other counties.

BonnieSituation

noway12345 wrote: »

Did Kerry and Tyrone get Irish Sports Council funding also?

The GAA gets funding.