All Ireland Football Final Kerry -v- Dublin WARNING POST #110

Stoner

BonnieSituation wrote:

I always saw that Meath result as somewhat of an anomaly. Dublin got to the SF in the end that year. And really should have beaten Cork that day.

Wouldn't really agree tbh. Dublin ran out of steam. Just like Kerry did in 2013. Cork were the best team in 2010 imo. We couldn't compete against their physicality bigger team. It was a close game but Cork had some squad that year and really underperformed in 2011 too imo.

robbiezero

duchalla wrote: »

I wouldnt really agree with that. We won the All Ireland last year without Cooper. He didnt start all championship games this year. If theres one place where Kerry dont have a lack of talent, its in the forwards. Granted, a bad day at the office on sunday, but any of our forward subs would get on most county teams. Its our backs where the cover is sparce.
I can see Cooper being used more as an impact sub in the coming years.

Ye have plenty of very decent forwards, but how many of them are really top class?
Other than James O Donoghue, would any of them get in the Dublin team?

Stoner

duchalla wrote:

We won the All Ireland last year without Cooper.

True, but you they didn't play the Dubs last year !!!!
Only messing with you. We just had to listen to that talk in 1983 so Ive been waiting to say that for a long time, cut me some slack .

Cooper was clearly struggling this year. Hopefully he is fully recovered next year.

corny

Stoner wrote: »

Wouldn't really agree tbh. Dublin ran out of steam. Just like Kerry did in 2013. Cork were the best team in 2010 imo. We couldn't compete against their physicality bigger team. It was a close game but Cork had some squad that year and really underperformed in 2011 too imo.

Agreed. They were far more streetwise in how they paced themselves too. The Dublin players learned a salutary lesson that day.

I wouldn't write Gooch off just yet. Used the right way he could still be a huge asset.

duchalla

robbiezero wrote: »

Ye have plenty of very decent forwards, but how many of them are really top class?
Other than James O Donoghue, would any of them get in the Dublin team?

Well, I did say MOST county teams.

Might be wearing my green and gold tinted glasses, but I'd put Paul Geaney ahead of Dean Rock, Donacha Walsh ahead of Paul Flynn....



ducks for cover....

Stoner

duchalla wrote:

Might be wearing my green and gold tinted glasses, but I'd put Paul Geaney ahead of Dean Rock, Donacha Walsh ahead of Paul Flynn....

1 out of 2 I think

BonnieSituation

Stoner wrote: »

Wouldn't really agree tbh. Dublin ran out of steam. Just like Kerry did in 2013. Cork were the best team in 2010 imo. We couldn't compete against their physicality bigger team. It was a close game but Cork had some squad that year and really underperformed in 2011 too imo.

My bitterness probably disguises how good they were.

But:
- they got a penalty that got them back into the game,

- they won by a point,

- they only took the lead in the 70th minute,

- their cynicism (Graham Canty take a bow) and all-round experience got them over the line,

They were the best team that year and probably deserved it overall but they were brutal in the final as well and Down could have had them.

I'll take 2011 in exchange for it though.

BonnieSituation

duchalla wrote: »

Well, I did say MOST county teams.

Might be wearing my green and gold tinted glasses, but I'd put Paul Geaney ahead of Dean Rock, Donacha Walsh ahead of Paul Flynn....



ducks for cover....

*lobs stones*

Not a hope would I have anyone ahead of Flynn.

I'd take Geaney all day.

duchalla

Stoner wrote: »

1 out of 2 I think

Which one?

robbiezero

duchalla wrote: »

Well, I did say MOST county teams.

Might be wearing my green and gold tinted glasses, but I'd put Paul Geaney ahead of Dean Rock, Donacha Walsh ahead of Paul Flynn....



ducks for cover....

I have already put James O Donogue in for Rock
As a neutral, I would take Flynn based on past years more so than this year.

duchalla

BonnieSituation wrote: »

*lobs stones*

Not a hope would I have anyone ahead of Flynn.

I'd take Geaney all day.

Are we basing it on this years performances or the past few years??

Walsh wont be far away from an All Star this year. He's been Kerrys most consistent forward over the last few years.

noway12345

Sorry to bring this topic back up but it's one that interests me. How much does the amount of money teams have at their disposal effect the outcome of GAA championships? Would the Irish Sports Council funding have a big part to play in Dublins victore this year? Someone linked an article earlier saying that Kerry spent a million last year, would that be one of the main reasons why they won? I was discussing this with some people yesterday and they were telling me that Dublin didn't have their team meal in the Shelbourne Hotel because they're sponsored by the hotel they did have it in. I thought they were sponsored by AIG but I was told that they have loads of sponsors! Do most counties have this? If not it also seems unfair, along with the Irish Sports Council money.

BonnieSituation

duchalla wrote: »

Are we basing it on this years performances or the past few years??

Walsh wont be far away from an All Star this year. He's been Kerrys most consistent forward over the last few years.

Past few years and the final.

He's allowed have an off season.

duchalla

robbiezero wrote: »

I have already put James O Donogue in for Rock
As a neutral, I would take Flynn based on past years more so than this year.

James instead of Paddy Andrews

BonnieSituation

duchalla wrote: »

James instead of Paddy Andrews

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... I'll keep Paddy. I like how he stays on his feet. :P

bruschi

noway12345 wrote: »

Sorry to bring this topic back up but it's one that interests me. How much does the amount of money teams have at their disposal effect the outcome of GAA championships? Would the Irish Sports Council funding have a big part to play in Dublins victore this year? Someone linked an article earlier saying that Kerry spent a million last year, would that be one of the main reasons why they won? I was discussing this with some people yesterday and they were telling me that Dublin didn't have their team meal in the Shelbourne Hotel because they're sponsored by the hotel they did have it in. I thought they were sponsored by AIG but I was told that they have loads of sponsors! Do most counties have this? If not it also seems unfair, along with the Irish Sports Council money.

It's probably not the thread for it, but there are plenty of previous threads discussing the funds Dublin get. Have a quick search, as you should probably get more answers there than you will here in the aftermath of Dublin winning.

bruschi

My 6 forwards off Dublin and Kerry:

Walsh - Kilkenny - Connolly
Brogan - Geaney - O Donohoe

that leaves out Flynn, Andrews, Rock and Cooper, O Brien and Buckley.

Flynn hasnt been great this year, the final was his best game. It would still only ever be a toss up between him and Walsh though. Andrews had a very good, and underrated year this year too.

CurryFlavoured

bruschi wrote: »

My 6 forwards off Dublin and Kerry:

Walsh - Kilkenny - Connolly
Brogan - Geaney - O Donohoe

that leaves out Flynn, Andrews, Rock and Cooper, O Brien and Buckley.

Flynn hasnt been great this year, the final was his best game. It would still only ever be a toss up between him and Walsh though. Andrews had a very good, and underrated year this year too.

Andrews over Geaney every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I'm getting tired of saying this but he's a criminally underrated player.

robbiezero

bruschi wrote: »

My 6 forwards off Dublin and Kerry:

Walsh - Kilkenny - Connolly
Brogan - Geaney - O Donohoe

that leaves out Flynn, Andrews, Rock and Cooper, O Brien and Buckley.

Flynn hasnt been great this year, the final was his best game. It would still only ever be a toss up between him and Walsh though. Andrews had a very good, and underrated year this year too.

Interesting.
What about the 6 backs. I'm trying to put at least 1 Kerry back in there, the nearest I can get is Enright for Cooper, but I rate Cooper higher.

corny

Short memories. Flynn is quite possibly the most rounded player ive seen. He puts all the options on both sides (Kerry and Dublin) to the sword when at his best.

BonnieSituation

corny wrote: »

Short memories. Flynn is quite possibly the most rounded player ive seen. He puts all the options on both sides (Kerry and Dublin) to the sword when at his best.

I have him as probably the best I've ever seen wearing the blue.

CurryFlavoured

corny wrote: »

Short memories. Flynn is quite possibly the most rounded player ive seen. He puts all the options on both sides (Kerry and Dublin) to the sword when at his best.

While true, Walsh has clearly been better this season.

DoctaDee

Personally Moran & JOD are the only 2 Kerry players that would improve the Dublin team

bruschi

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Andrews over Geaney every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I'm getting tired of saying this but he's a criminally underrated player.

corny wrote: »

Short memories. Flynn is quite possibly the most rounded player ive seen. He puts all the options on both sides (Kerry and Dublin) to the sword when at his best.

Andrews and Geaney was the only debate I really had. I was very impressed with Andrews on Sunday, but I just feel Geaney is better right now.

Also with Flynn, if it was any other year, then yeah I'd agree. But I'm not sure how Dublin fans could get so enamoured over this, yet in their own thread on here some were saying based on this years performance his place was very much in doubt. Going on this year alone, and picking the best players from it, Walsh was far superior to Flynn this year. I'm not basing it on careers, just if I was picking a team in the morning.

SmallFrog

Godge wrote: »

Alan Brogan is a year older than Colm Cooper.

The difference between Dublin and Kerry can be seen in the use or need to use of both players. Alan Brogan is now only a luxury sub for Dublin, bring him on when you need a little extra in the last 15 or to use his experience to see out a win. Cooper is still needed as a starter for Kerry, when he is not the player he was.

please dont tell me you're trying to compare brogan to cooper (at any stage in their respective careers)...

bruschi

SmallFrog wrote: »

please dont tell me you're trying to compare brogan to cooper (at any stage in their respective careers)...

not sure why you think they couldnt be. Brogan was the hub of Dublins attack. Everything went through him. he was the conductor for their forwards, and lead them to a couple of AI final wins. He also won a player of the year in the process. The fact that Dublin have moved on and he isnt integral now means they can use him sparingly, and not have to rely on an ageing player. Neither of them are what they were, and Dublin have adjusted to that. Kerry havent. Much in the same way as Kilkenny and their use of Shefflin.

corny

bruschi wrote: »

Also with Flynn, if it was any other year, then yeah I'd agree. But I'm not sure how Dublin fans could get so enamoured over this, yet in their own thread on here some were saying based on this years performance his place was very much in doubt. Going on this year alone, and picking the best players from it, Walsh was far superior to Flynn this year. I'm not basing it on careers, just if I was picking a team in the morning.

I didn't think you were going on this year alone. You said it would only ever be a toss up. Implying a far greater time period. Apologies if i picked that up wrong.

Slattsy

DoctaDee wrote: »

Personally Moran & JOD are the only 2 Kerry players that would improve the Dublin team

+ 1

Although Maher had a better game on Sunday.

SmallFrog

bruschi wrote: »

not sure why you think they couldnt be. Brogan was the hub of Dublins attack. Everything went through him. he was the conductor for their forwards, and lead them to a couple of AI final wins. He also won a player of the year in the process. The fact that Dublin have moved on and he isnt integral now means they can use him sparingly, and not have to rely on an ageing player. Neither of them are what they were, and Dublin have adjusted to that. Kerry havent. Much in the same way as Kilkenny and their use of Shefflin.

just because one is 'the hub of an attack' doesnt mean one is a creative genius.
Brogan x2 could only dream of having the all-round attacking / creative game of the gooch.
its like comparing robbie keane with leo messi.

noway12345

bruschi wrote: »

It's probably not the thread for it, but there are plenty of previous threads discussing the funds Dublin get. Have a quick search, as you should probably get more answers there than you will here in the aftermath of Dublin winning.

I've tried searching for it. There always seems to be an attitude of shut up about it! Even your post there. Do I sense that the Dubs have a bit of a guilty conscience about the money?

bruschi

SmallFrog wrote: »

just because one is 'the hub of an attack' doesnt mean one is a creative genius.
Brogan x2 could only dream of having the all-round attacking / creative game of the gooch.
its like comparing robbie keane with leo messi.

you're getting bogged down in comparing the footballing merits of both players, which is not what the poster alluded to. Both players were key to their teams for years. One team still does that and lost, and the other has changed and won. The comparison was how the teams use their marquee player. If you want to discuss the merits of each ones footballing ability, do so. But the comparison is completely valid in how they have both approached each player this year.

bruschi

noway12345 wrote: »

I've tried searching for it. There always seems to be an attitude of shut up about it! Even your post there. Do I sense that the Dubs have a bit of a guilty conscience about the money?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=269

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057376771

there is 2 threads on it there. Personally, I dont think the AI final thread is the place to be discussing the funding allocation to Dublin. It has nothing to to with the game, and all it would do in the aftermath of a Dublin win is cause more friction.

I've made comments in both those threads which go against me trying to say shut up about it. I just dont think its appropriate in this one to have that discussion, because it will only lead to accusations of sore losers, and then arguments that no one can compete.

That sort of mind numbing endless debate is what the winter months are for. And splitting Dublin in 2. Thats another good one. Or as one poster on here before wanted, that every player born in Dublin to parents from another county had to go play with that county. He had some good ideas I must say...

noway12345

bruschi wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=269

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057376771

there is 2 threads on it there. Personally, I dont think the AI final thread is the place to be discussing the funding allocation to Dublin. It has nothing to to with the game, and all it would do in the aftermath of a Dublin win is cause more friction.

I've made comments in both those threads which go against me trying to say shut up about it. I just dont think its appropriate in this one to have that discussion, because it will only lead to accusations of sore losers, and then arguments that no one can compete.

That sort of mind numbing endless debate is what the winter months are for. And splitting Dublin in 2. Thats another good one. Or as one poster on here before wanted, that every player born in Dublin to parents from another county had to go play with that county. He had some good ideas I must say...

But surely the funding allocated to Dublin had a lot to do with them winning this final?

BonnieSituation

noway12345 wrote: »

But surely the funding allocated to Dublin had a lot to do with them winning this final?

You've been pointed to the appropriate threads. Please use them.

noway12345

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You've been pointed to the appropriate threads. Please use them.

Shut up, nothing to see here?

Paulzx

noway12345 wrote: »

Shut up, nothing to see here?

What is your obsession with money?


You've been pointed in the right direction yet seem to think there is some sort of "cover up"

The thread is about the All Ireland Final. Not the Dublin County Boards bank balance

Slattsy

noway12345 wrote: »

Shut up, nothing to see here?

You're not as clueless on this matter as you're making out

noway12345

Paulzx wrote: »

What is your obsession with money?


You've been pointed in the right direction yet seem to think there is some sort of "cover up"

The thread is about the All Ireland Final. Not the Dublin County Boards bank balance

I read the thread that was linked and it doesn't answer any of my questions. I'm not obsessed with money, in fact I had very little interest in it until I got some rude answers. It spiked my interests, it seems that there's something up!

noway12345

Slattsy wrote: »

You're not as clueless on this matter as you're making out

I've read threads on it, I know more than I did but I still don't really understand it all.

BonnieSituation

noway12345 wrote: »

I've read threads on it, I know more than I did but I still don't really understand it all.

the problem with your questions is that they are derailing a thread that is not about the subject that you're interested in.

If you can't find the answers you want or require in the linked threads then can you use the appropriate threads and people will gladly attempt to help you.

noway12345

BonnieSituation wrote: »

the problem with your questions is that they are derailing a thread that is not about the subject that you're interested in.

If you can't find the answers you want or require in the linked threads then can you use the appropriate threads and people will gladly attempt to help you.

If people just answered in the beginning I wouldn't be asking these questions. And as I've said, if the money is a main reason why Dublin won the All Ireland on Sunday then wouldn't that be a very appropriate topic for this thread?

BonnieSituation

noway12345 wrote: »

If people just answered in the beginning I wouldn't be asking these questions. And as I've said, if the money is a main reason why Dublin won the All Ireland on Sunday then wouldn't that be a very appropriate topic for this thread?

The money is not the main reason Dublin won on Sunday.

Here ya go:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97127923&postcount=48

noway12345

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The money is not the main reason Dublin won on Sunday.

Here ya go:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97127923&postcount=48

Well it was a big part to play in Kerry's win the year before. From what I've read it seems to be a very big part in Dublin winning 3 of the last 5.

BonnieSituation

So have any non-Dubs re-watched the match and changed their thoughts on the game?

noway12345

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So have any non-Dubs re-watched the match and changed their thoughts on the game?

I've asked the questions in a new thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97128072#post97128072

Paulzx

noway12345 wrote: »

I read the thread that was linked and it doesn't answer any of my questions. I'm not obsessed with money, in fact I had very little interest in it until I got some rude answers. It spiked my interests, it seems that there's something up!

So a few vague answers by random people on a thread on Boards has brought out the investagative journalist in you?

I think it's the new Watergate.

How do the Dubs afford free jockstraps for the entire squad?

Where's the funding coming from? Is there any connection to organised crime?

BonnieSituation

Paulzx wrote: »

So a few vague answers by random people on a thread on Boards has brought out the investagative journalist in you?

I think it's the new Watergate.

How do the Dubs afford free jockstraps for the entire squad?

Where's the funding coming from? Is there any connection to organised crime?

Please don't.

The_Honeybadger

Regarding Kerry players that would make the Dublin team I think the following would be in and around the team: enright, Moran (possibly maher also), Walsh, JOD and Geaney. On this years showing I'd take kealy over cluxton any day of the week also, and cluxton is only going one way from here. Would any of them improve Dublin massively? I would say no. There aren't many weaknesses in the Dublin team to fix. This is totally subjective of course and we all view these things through the prism of our own team. From the players listed above we can see that it's in the defensive area where Dublin are clearly well ahead. Very little between them apart from that imho.

Somebody also asked which of the Dublin defeats hurt Kerry most, for me it was 2011 as I felt we were the better team and it was a game we really should have won. We also got royally screwed right throughout by mcquillan IMO, which added to the frustration. I didn't expect us to win in 2013 and while I was hopeful last Sunday at the back of my mind I always knew it was going to be very difficult. It was more hope than expectation, and after 20 minutes I knew we were in real trouble so wasn't too upset at the end. You don't mind getting beaten by a better team so much.

Jippo

noway12345 wrote: »

American football?

So you are proposing a transfer system from minor teams?

noway12345

Jippo wrote: »

So you are proposing a transfer system from minor teams?

No.