All Ireland Football Final Kerry -v- Dublin WARNING POST #110

Always_Running

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So have any non-Dubs re-watched the match and changed their thoughts on the game?

On second viewing I'm convinced it was the worst contest in Croke park since the Dublin v Donegal semi final in 2011.

ArielAtom

There have been worse, you did'nt see the Dub v Tyrone or Derry games in the league. horriffic!!!!!!!!!!!!
That was due to the set up of teams, Sunday was due in a large part to the weather.

Nidgeweasel

Always_Running wrote: »

On second viewing I'm convinced it was the worst contest in Croke park since the Dublin v Donegal semi final in 2011.

Define contest please.

ProudDUB

I'd say it was worse than the Donegal/Dublin 2011 semi. There were moments of sublime skill on display back in 2011, despite the low score. Watching last Sundays game, was like watching a herd of poodles chasing each other around a jacuzzi.

BonnieSituation

Always_Running wrote: »

On second viewing I'm convinced it was the worst contest in Croke park since the Dublin v Donegal semi final in 2011.

The 2011 SF was absolutely horrific while I was there because I frustrated. But After re-watching it I found it to be an absorbing tactical battle and merely stage one in the JMac revolution.

ArielAtom wrote: »

There have been worse, you did'nt see the Dub v Tyrone or Derry games in the league. horriffic!!!!!!!!!!!!
That was due to the set up of teams, Sunday was due in a large part to the weather.

Tyrone game was grand. I thankfully was too hungover top attend the Derry game so my dad went in my stead. Phew.

ProudDUB wrote: »

I'd say it was worse than the Donegal/Dublin 2011 semi. There were moments of sublime skill on display back in 2011, despite the low score. Watching last Sundays game, was like watching a herd of poodles chasing each other around a jacuzzi.

I really don't think it was that bad. The weather was never gonna allow a "great" game. But we were so superior that it mattered not.

Always_Running

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Define contest please.

Where both sides have a decent chance of winning going into the final quarter of the game.

Uncle Ben

Two teams. One match. Better team won.

Stoner

BonnieSituation wrote:

The 2011 SF was absolutely horrific while I was there because I frustrated. But After re-watching it I found it to be an absorbing tactical battle and merely stage one in the JMac revolution.

The 2011 was the worst game I've ever seen. I posted here that if i was a kid watching it I wouldn't want to play football.
I didn't feel like that all last week. Poor game but a reason for it.

Nidgeweasel

Stoner wrote: »

The 2011 was the worst game I've ever seen. I posted here that if i was a kid watching it I wouldn't want to play football.
I didn't feel like that all last week. Poor game but a reason for it.

I went to an u-16 girls club match up here a few years back which would make your soul weep.

You think that semi final was bad!

Dirty Dingus McGee

That 2011 semi final was much much worse than Sundays game.Frankly the 2 games shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath.

2011 was an almost 100% defensive game at least of Sunday both teams actually did go out and try to play in a positive manner.

gormdubhgorm

7 days later and I am still a happy Dub.

Can't believe it 3 in 4 years. Even if you average it out since 1995 it works out at about one SAM every 7 years. I would even take that average from now on. I feel spoiled supporting this team now.
I loved the fact that the Dubs won ugly. When I looked back on the Sunday Game I just watched the analysis. It amused me that Spillane, O'Rourke and Brolly all went for Kerry. Then they had to try and make up reasoned excuses and backtracking by the end of it.

NIMAN

Controversial again from Joe Brolly

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/joe-brolly-when-the-heat-is-turned-up-on-colm-cooper-he-disappears-in-adversity-he-fails-31561865.html

gormdubhgorm

NIMAN wrote: »

Controversial again from Joe Brolly

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/joe-brolly-when-the-heat-is-turned-up-on-colm-cooper-he-disappears-in-adversity-he-fails-31561865.html

He seems to have forgotten the 2013 AI semi where the gooch ran the show!

Brolly is just looking for attention/wind people up for the craic I remember he wrote an article saying that Kerry had no forwards. They then went on the All-Ireland.

Brolly is just background noise at this stage. Albeit, background noise who likes to use 5 syllable words wherever possible.:D

CurryFlavoured

Its BS. He said it about Cooper before so he's running with it any chance he gets.

He hasn't been the same after the ACL, despite a few goals against Kildare you could see Gooch has lost 5-10% this season. Before that he underperformed v the Donegal defence in 2012 which no forward performed well against.

Gooch is a magic player who has performed in several big games and before this season could only be marked by 2 or 3 men.

Dyr

NIMAN wrote: »

Controversial again from Joe Brolly

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/joe-brolly-when-the-heat-is-turned-up-on-colm-cooper-he-disappears-in-adversity-he-fails-31561865.html

You can say he's just winding people up but he's always doing it at the expense of players who dont deserve being the subject of his

He's also obsessed with referring to donaghy as "star" at every opportunity, wtf is wrong with his given name?

The_Honeybadger

You'd have to wonder what might have been if Kerry had started with Donaghy or brought him on when it was clear plan A wasn't working. He had the Dublin full back line in a real panic towards the end and they were very lucky it didn't translate into scores.

Cooper definately had one to forget but I think his criticism is ott, the man is returning from a devastating injury and was playing in a game where no forward performed to their ability due to the conditions.

seligehgit

NIMAN wrote: »

Controversial again from Joe Brolly

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/joe-brolly-when-the-heat-is-turned-up-on-colm-cooper-he-disappears-in-adversity-he-fails-31561865.html

Utter nonsense from Brolly.

wackokid

Very hard to take all right..........for Kerry people that is.

ProudDUB

Brolly really is the ultimate wind up merchant. I sometimes wonder if he does it just to set the cat amongst the pigeons for craic, or if he really believes all of what he writes.

Whatever your opinions are about Gooch in big game/second half/game on the line situations, he is coming off two horrific knee injuries. Going after him in such a personal way, just seems very mean spirited to me.

BPKS

wackokid wrote: »

Very hard to take all right..........for Kerry people that is.

I think what Brolly said is very hard to take for anybody with a knowledge of or interest in Gaelic Football.

Gooch has been a joy to watch since he started playing for Kerry as a skinny 19 year old 13 years ago.

In an era where more gym bunnies than footballers are plying their trade at intercounty level, getting their finely tuned bodies behind the ball, running 12+km a game and being happy if they make 5 tackles and handpass the ball 5 yards to a team-mate, 15 times a game, Gooch has been a tonic.

The dummy hop, the dummy solo, making space, the two feet, the vision to find a team mate in space, the finishing. I have been lucky enough to see him in every one of the championship games he has played for Kerry and a good shot of the league games.

Earlier this year, I drove the hour to Killarney with my kids instead of going to a family celebration to watch Gooch play in one of his first club games since returning from injury. I was worried he would get hurt again before I got the chance to see him play again. He didn't do a whole lot in the game but I left the ground with a satisfied feeling that Gooch was back playing football.

The man has lost 5 finals for Kerry and has lost both his parents since he started playing inter county football. He has suffered a horrific injury. He is public property in every square inch of Kerry and has to put up with everything that comes with that.

He didn't deserve what was written about him yesterday. I hope the author of that piece gets what he deserves however. Which I wont say here what I think that is.

harpsman

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

He seems to have forgotten the 2013 AI semi where the gooch ran the show!

Brolly is just looking for attention/wind people up for the craic I remember he wrote an article saying that Kerry had no forwards. They then went on the All-Ireland.

Brolly is just background noise at this stage. Albeit, background noise who likes to use 5 syllable words wherever possible.:D

Not to mention the fact that Donaghy played most of the 2nd half of that game and was completely ineffectual. IMO best response to attention seekers is to ignore. And I'm someone who isnt a member of the "Sacred Cow gooch shall never be criticised" congregation.

corny

Brolly is different to the rest of us.

He forms the opinion and then looks for the evidence, however tenuous, to back it up. He completely ignores evidence to the contrary.

Strange way of going about things but it leads him to some bizarre conclusions.

Stoner

Also throwing in that Cian O'Sullivan put it up to him in 2013 is rubbish he's just padding his argument. Brennan would have been far more imposing and had a nightmare on Gooch. O'Sullivan was just out ahead of him and marked space around him far better, and held him better with footballing skills.

It's obvious all season that he's half the man he was. For some reason the lads on the Sunday game didn't point that out. Spillane waited till Sunday to give his opinion that Galvin was finished two years ago.
Most of us knew that Gooch was in a bad way, that's why he hadn't really played well by his standards all season.

Some of the jobs done on marking him this year could be blown a little out of proportion. Bit like McBride vs Tyson.

Nidgeweasel

I have neither the time nor the inclination to go through that garbage from Brolly but,

I seem to recall Gooch doing quite well in 2005 and certainly in 2008? Losing doesn't equate to playing poorly.

And imagine using 2002 as a stick to beat him with.:o A child up against those Armagh boys. Laughable.

PressRun

Gooch isn't what he used to be, but to suggest that he's a choker or some such is ridiculous.

paintitwhite

Several media outlets reporting that Philly McMahon got a one match ban (as it stands he will Kerry game in the league) but he has chosen to appeal.

Pink Fairy

paintitwhite wrote: »

Several media outlets reporting that Philly McMahon got a one match ban (as it stands he will Kerry game in the league) but he has chosen to appeal.

What? A Dublin player appealing a ban?!
Well I never!!

BonnieSituation

Pink Fairy wrote: »

What? A Dublin player appealing a ban?!
Well I never!!

Something wrong with that?

Shurimgreat

Gooch needs good players around him. Its like Messi for Barcelona. He needs a Xavi, Inniesta and Neymour to bring out the best in him.

There's not much Gooch can do if (a) he doesn't get the ball often and (b) he plays a great pass and the played he passed it to loses it. In both cases, Gooch can made to be look bad.

On the otherhand when the great Kerry team of 2004-2009 was at its peak so was Gooch. They got to 6 AI finals in a row and Gooch was surrounded by outstanding players. They assisted him score goals and points and vice versa.

Gooch needs a lot of possession to do his stuff and he hardly got any against Dublin. And what was he supposed to do with McMahahon, allow him go up the field to score points and goals.

Stoner

Shurimgreat wrote:

Gooch needs a lot of possession to do his stuff and he hardly got any against Dublin. And what was he supposed to do with McMahahon, allow him go up the field to score points and goals.

Imo Yes , if he's not great at defending, which he's not, someone else would have to pick up an attacking defender.

McMahon would be less likely to push on if Gooch was behind him.

The Dubs had a communication covering plan going all year, everyone knew about it. I'm sure Kerry could have done something similar around attacking defenders. McMahon had scored about 1-5 coming into the game. Gooch was pretty bad trying to defend, possibly it would have been better to just hang back and hope for a turnover, in that rain there was plenty. McMahon could have been caught out, he would have been less eager to puch forward once caught.

It was a waste of Coppers energy tracking back anyway it's the worst part of his game.

corny

Stoner wrote: »

Imo Yes , if he's not great at defending, which he's not, someone else would have to pick up an attacking defender.

McMahon would be less likely to push on if Gooch was behind him.

The Dubs had a communication covering plan going all year, everyone knew about it. I'm sure Kerry could have done something similar around attacking defenders. McMahon had scored about 1-5 coming into the game. Gooch was pretty bad trying to defend, possibly it would have been better to just hang back and hope for a turnover, in that rain there was plenty. McMahon could have been caught out, he would have been less eager to puch forward once caught.

It was a waste of Coppers energy tracking back anyway it's the worst part of his game.

McMahon was going forward whether or not Gooch was tracking him. The semis proved that. Dublin always had the numbers to cover him.

I thought Gooch did well tracking McMahon. Gave up one score but it was a good one. Also, he wasn't tasked with staying close to goal so he was right to try and do his bit for the team imo.

Stoner

corny wrote:

I thought Gooch did well tracking McMahon. Gave up one score but it was a good one. Also, he wasn't tasked with staying close to goal so he was right to try and do his bit for the team imo.

I still think he would have been better closer to the posts, he was not physically right this year, I think it would have been better to play him to his strengths. He laid on some good scores.
You are correct Philly was always going to get forward everyone knew that.

His job imo should not have been tracking Philly as much as he did , he was playing in the forwards and should be measured primarily for his contribution towards attack.

The plenty of cover the dubs extended to cover McMahon getting forward could have been matched by the kerry defenders to pick him up.
Putting a light Cooper recovering from all sorts of injuries on a task to "Mark" Dublins highest scoring defender was not great imho.

bruschi

corny wrote: »

McMahon was going forward whether or not Gooch was tracking him. The semis proved that. Dublin always had the numbers to cover him.

I thought Gooch did well tracking McMahon. Gave up one score but it was a good one. Also, he wasn't tasked with staying close to goal so he was right to try and do his bit for the team imo.

there was a few times that McMahon was forward and Gooch didnt follow, and Cian O Sullivan dropped back and was picking him up. Good communication and understanding by Dublin in their defensive system.

Amprodude

In fairness lads, you must give credit to Gooch in the final he did well to limit Philly mcmahon to a point.

robbiezero

Stoner wrote: »

I still think he would have been better closer to the posts, he was not physically right this year, I think it would have been better to play him to his strengths. He laid on some good scores.
You are correct Philly was always going to get forward everyone knew that.

His job imo should not have been tracking Philly as much as he did , he was playing in the forwards and should be measured primarily for his contribution towards attack.

The plenty of cover the dubs extended to cover McMahon getting forward could have been matched by the kerry defenders to pick him up.
Putting a light Cooper recovering from all sorts of injuries on a task to "Mark" Dublins highest scoring defender was not great imho.

I have said it earlier, but there was a cameo in the second half where gooch was one on one with McMahon and Kerry desperately needed a score. Gooch turned and kicked it back out to the 45. When I saw that, I thought to myself that this guy is a shadow of his former self.

ProudDUB

robbiezero wrote: »

I have said it earlier, but there was a cameo in the second half where gooch was one on one with McMahon and Kerry desperately needed a score. Gooch turned and kicked it back out to the 45. When I saw that, I thought to myself that this guy is a shadow of his former self.

I think that comments like that are incredibly unfair. He is coming off a horrific knee injury, that was a lot worse than the standard cruciate injury, seeing as he ruptured his knee cap too. I think that he needs more time, not just to get over the physical injury, which he very may well have done) but the mental side of it too. He did look a lot more tentative in the final than he normally does, but given the conditions, can you blame him? One bad slip and he could have not only ruptured his whole knee again, but left him with a bad limp for life.

robbiezero

ProudDUB wrote: »

I think that comments like that are incredibly unfair. He is coming off a horrific knee injury, that was a lot worse than the standard cruciate injury, seeing as he ruptured his knee cap too. I think that he needs more time, not just to get over the physical injury, which he very may well have done) but the mental side of it too. He did look a lot more tentative in the final than he normally does, but given the conditions, can you blame him? One bad slip and he could have not only ruptured his whole knee again, but left him with a bad limp for life.

I am not having a go at him whatsoever. He is one of my favourite footballers of all time. It was a huge ask for a 33 year old coming back off a horrific injury and marking a candidate for footballer of the year in conditions like that.

manofwisdom

Two weeks since that dull as dishwater final i think its time to wrap up this match thread lads.

Hammer Archer

^
Indeed. Closed.