My Kids Goldfish Saga

Seve OB

<Mod Snip> Comments like that could very well get you banned or infracted </Mod Snip> I'm going to post again about my kids fish tank. :eek:

So as you may know my kids have a 14L tank with 2 goldfish and there were problems with the filter. My wife brought the apparently faulty filter back to Petstop in Blanchardstown where my sister had bought it as a present for our kids. They confirmed it was indeed a faulty filter and gave her a replacement.

However, while the new filter seemed ok, it was having a weird effect on the water in the tank, it smelled out the room and was very cloudy. It didn't take long for one of the fish to die.

My wife then discovered another local petshop in Roselawn and went to them instead and found them quite helpful. She brought the filter to them and while the mechanics of it were fine, the replaceable inside (the actual filter itself) was deemed part of the problem along with them telling her that we were overfeeding the fish. A replacement of the filter guts along with feeding the fish less, has resulted in a smoothly running and not at all smelly fish tank.

However, a new fish was also bought, a bit smaller than the remaining lad, but the poor divil barely lasted 10 days. Cue another replacement. She went for a bigger fish this time, more or less the same size as the original lad. About 3 week in now with the new guy and so far so good and they are both quite active.

I'd be interested know though if anyone knew why the second fish might have died after such a short period of time? Could it have been from hunger? I mean, could the fact he was smaller than the other one have impacted on him getting to the food, or is it just something that happens?

What about the smelly cloudy water? The guys in Roselawn told my wife it could have been from overfeeding and the excess food being in the tank. But we are talking a matter of only a few days and I cleaned it out a few times. Apparently the filter itself was filthy, why would that be the case with a brand new filter?

What do you guys recommend about feeding volume and frequency? How often would you clean out the tank and how much of the water would you empty each time?

kylith

Biting my tongue about the fact that the tank size is totally inadequate for goldfish....

What was the water change schedule? How much water did you change and how often? How did you dechlorinate the water? You have effectively been cycling the filter (growing bacteria which feed on ammonia and break it down into less-harmful products) with the fish in the water (this should be done without any fish in the tank) this has the effect of, basically, the fish swimming around in their own waste products. It's my opinion that this is what has been killing your fish. Your remaining first fish is probably particularly hardy (or lucky) and the filter may have cycled by the time you got the third fish. However you will need to seriously source a much, much larger tank (around 200L) for the fish to grow to happy adults. Alternatively rehome the goldfish and put some shrimp in that tank; it's much too small for any fish.

FYI this is what an adult goldfish looks like - and this one hadn't stopped growing at 8 inches - in a 120L tank. I rehomed him to a pond soon after because he couldn't comfortably turn around in that tank.

Seve OB

Was changing about 4 litres of the water. There were 2 different types of drops we were given to use in the water. I don't know the name of them (am in work now). I think only one of them used though on water changes! I was initially doing it twice a week, but started doing it a bit more frequently when the water got cloudy and smelly, maybe every two days. I haven't done it in a while now, the wife has been, but I think she is doing it once a week now.

Regarding "cycling". So what you are saying if I am right, is the drops and so forth we put in the water are supposed to kill off the badness in the fish excrement and this obviously takes a bit of time to settle in and we should have done it before putting the fish in the water? Well before we got the second fish, we probably had the tank for a good 2 weeks, so would it not have been "cycled" by then? I take your point though, it makes sense.

You talk about "cycling the filter" which confuses me. Is it the filter that gets cycled or the water? I thought you are supposed to change the filter every month or so (actually I'll take any recommendations on filter change also please). When you are changing the filter, does it have to be cycled before you put it in the tank, or am I just being stupid :rolleyes:

kylith

No, you never change the filter unless it's falling apart. The filter is where the beneficial bacteria live which break down the ammonia. Removing the filter sponge and putting in a new one will destroy your cycle. Washing the filter sponge in tap water will destroy your cycle. Allowing your filter sponge to dry out will destroy your cycle. There's a sticky about cycling an aquarium at the top of this forum - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056019630

Frankly changing 4L water in a 14L tank won't do a damn thing really. Goldfish are some of the messiest fish and biggest waste producers around.

The 'drops' you were given may have been stress coat which is designed to neutralise chlorine but won't do anything for the ammonia. The dosage varies from brand to brand. You'll need to check the labels to see what you have and what dosage you should be using.

You'd be able to get a good quality second hand tank on Adverts.

Seve OB

Interesting about not changing anything to do with the filter. I was pretty sure I read in the accompanying documentation that it needs to be changed every so often. I must look that up.

I'll look up the drops we got and let you know what they are called.

How much water should we change and how often? As I say, it is all running smoothly for the moment and would just like to keep it that way.

kylith

I honestly couldn't say how much you should be changing in that tank because that tank is laughably small for those fish. You would basically need to change all the water at least once a day. The standard amount would be about 50% a week, but that's on a tank of a couple of hundred litres.

Your tank is massively overstocked; aqadvisor.com puts it at 718% of stocking level. Your tank will not run smoothly, it's only a matter of time before the fish die. Goldfish have a lifespan of up to 15 years or so; yours will be lucky to last 6 months. They will become stunted because they do not have room to grow; it's like keeping a Labrador in a wardrobe.

Seriously, look at getting a bigger tank, or rehome the fish. If you definitely want something aquatic for your kids get an apple snail, they're reasonably active and will do ok in that tank.

Seve OB

While I appreciate your comments, I'd rather not get into to much detail about tank size after the last fiasco.

The tank was bought with the fish as a present for my kids by my sister, who incidentally had a goldfish when she was small. It lived for years in a bowl that might have held somewhere between 5 and 10 litres and which she cleaned out regularly with bleech!

I had no idea about size recommendation or requirements till I made my original post. I do appreciate the advice about tank size from yourself and from the last thread, but to be honest it has come to late as the purchase has already been made, and anyway we just about found room for the one we got, so there is no chance of getting anything bigger! The best thing I can do now is to help my kids care for what they have got, as best as possible.

It is important to remember though, that if people feel so passionately about tank size, they should not attack people like me or my sister who don't realise that best practice for goldfish is huge tanks. There have no laws been broken here, so if you feel so passionately, I suggest your time is better spent trying to bring laws into place to stop shops selling setups like the one we got. Or even campaign the shops. I'll be honest, we originally thought she would get them a bowl similar to the one she had way back in the day, and I think she would have, except they don't seem to be sold anymore, so maybe the days of selling Goldfish in 14L tanks will soon be gone too....

The Hill Billy

OP - Cut out the back-seat modding.

Any further comment on the moderation of this forum or its members & I will close this thread & remove your posting privileges.

Any issues with this - PM me.

tHB

Jen Pigs Fly

Seve OB wrote: »

While I appreciate your comments, I'd rather not get into to much detail about tank size after the last fiasco.

The tank was bought with the fish as a present for my kids by my sister, who incidentally had a goldfish when she was small. It lived for years in a bowl that might have held somewhere between 5 and 10 litres and which she cleaned out regularly with bleech!

I had no idea about size recommendation or requirements till I made my original post. I do appreciate the advice about tank size from yourself and from the last thread, but to be honest it has come to late as the purchase has already been made, and anyway we just about found room for the one we got, so there is no chance of getting anything bigger! The best thing I can do now is to help my kids care for what they have got, as best as possible.

It is important to remember though, that if people feel so passionately about tank size, they should not attack people like me or my sister who don't realise that best practice for goldfish is huge tanks. There have no laws been broken here, so if you feel so passionately, I suggest your time is better spent trying to bring laws into place to stop shops selling setups like the one we got. Or even campaign the shops. I'll be honest, we originally thought she would get them a bowl similar to the one she had way back in the day, and I think she would have, except they don't seem to be sold anymore, so maybe the days of selling Goldfish in 14L tanks will soon be gone too....

There is actually law and legislation about selling fishbowls and minimum tank sizes, Ireland is just 50 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to animal welfare ....

For example up under German animal welfare law the fluval edge which is 24litres cannot be sold due it being considered cruel.
Tank size has to be a minimum of 30cm in length.
I worked for a German pet company before and the welfare laws were much stricter and goldfish were sold as pond fish only.

Food for thought.

I'm currently going through the German animal welfare act go try to find the passage.

kylith

Seve OB wrote: »

The tank was bought with the fish as a present for my kids by my sister, who incidentally had a goldfish when she was small. It lived for years in a bowl that might have held somewhere between 5 and 10 litres and which she cleaned out regularly with bleech!

In fairness, that fish was the exception rather than the rule. For every fish that lives for years in a tiny bowl thousands upon thousands die in days or weeks. Even in your tank 66% of the fish you've put in there have died in a short time.

Seve OB wrote: »

I had no idea about size recommendation or requirements till I made my original post. I do appreciate the advice about tank size from yourself and from the last thread, but to be honest it has come to late as the purchase has already been made, and anyway we just about found room for the one we got, so there is no chance of getting anything bigger! The best thing I can do now is to help my kids care for what they have got, as best as possible.

It's not too late because 'the purchase has been made'; you had plenty of time since your last thread to get a second hand tank, cycle it, and move the fish in there. You say you don't have room for anything bigger, and I can understand that, I've been in that situation myself, but you don't seem all that interested in finding a good home for the fish and getting something more suitable for the tank either.

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

There is actually law and legislation about selling fishbowls and minimum tank sizes, Ireland is just 50 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to animal welfare ....

For example up under German animal welfare law the fluval edge which is 24litres cannot be sold due it being considered cruel.
Tank size has to be a minimum of 30cm in length.
I worked for a German pet company before and the welfare laws were much stricter and goldfish were sold as pond fish only.

Food for thought.

I'm currently going through the German animal welfare act go try to find the passage.

The sooner that's brought in here the better.

Sleepy

With all due respect Seve OB, you're basically asking us for advice on prolonging the duration of the abuse of your child's pet.

The fish cannot survive in the tank you're keeping them in. You're discovering first-hand that the advice you get in petshops is worse than useless. These are your options:

1. Get a big enough tank that's suitable for the fish you have.
2. Return the fish to the petshop and get rid of the tank altogether
3. Return the fish to the petshop and replace them with some shrimp or snails.
4. Return the fish to the petshop, replace the tank with an appropriate sized one from adverts or elsewhere (50 litres at an absolute minimum imo) and stock it with different fish (mollies, guppys etc.)
5. Continue killing fish and teaching your kids that it's okay to do so.

The Hill Billy

Folks,

We are going full circle here to end up back where the last thread ended.

@Seve_OB - If the advice provided does not answer your query, I'd suggest that you contact the shop where you got your fish/filter/tank & ask for their advice.

I'm closing this now.

tHB