Russian boots on the ground in Syria. Another Afghanistan?

Shurimgreat

The Russians occasionally do it but mostly in the Black Sea region, their own back yard. The Iranians never do it nor the Chinese.

The Russian military is falling behind badly compared to other modern nations. They had ambitions to create a 5th generation fighter but now seemed to have abandoned it. They have plans for a large aircraft carrier but again its all pie in the sky. They don't have the money to do any of these projects. They've fallen behind on guided munitions, and no-one really knows how accurate their cruise missiles are. I'd be sceptical about them though. Russian propaganda is generally believed in Russia and by a small minority of people outside Russia but by no-one else.

karma_

Lockstep wrote: »

ISIS have a command centre and base in Latakia? Source?

That's not what I said, at all.

Lockstep

karma_ wrote: »

That's not what I said, at all.

Can you clarify what you meant then?

donaghs

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Syria is a brutal dictatorship, anyone who argues otherwise can't really be taken seriously.

Is Assad any more brutal than any other Middle East Arab governments? How many of them are not dictators? How many wouldn't use force to quell discontent? (bearing in mind that not all are fighting a civil war).

These are valid questions, since the US and UK appear to prefer some dictators to others - for no other reasons except that it suits their geo-political strategy.

karma_

Lockstep wrote: »

Can you clarify what you meant then?

Russian base.

Shurimgreat

donaghs wrote: »

Is Assad any more brutal than any other Middle East Arab governments? How many of them are not dictators? How many wouldn't use force to quell discontent? (bearing in mind that not all are fighting a civil war).

These are valid questions, since the US and UK appear to prefer some dictators to others - for no other reasons except that it suits their geo-political strategy.

Look these are all valid questions to ask. Dictators get overthrown in different ways. People say the US shouldn't be the world's policeman. Other times the same people say why aren't they the worlds policeman. They are damned either way. If they allow Assad to massacre unarmed civilians in Syria and lets be honest he's massacred tens of thousands through barrel bombs, torture, gassing, etc people ask why didn't you stop him? If they arm the opposition they are blamed for prolonging it. If they bomb Assad they are accused of an illegal intervention. If they don't bomb him they are accused of double standards.

The West/Americans had no say in Syria prior to 2011. They had no say in Libya prior to 2011. They had some say in Egypt and Yemen and both dictators there fell, although with an unclear outcome. Re Saudi Arabia, they have some say but not much. Allowing the Saudi regime to fall would probably not be ideal for anyone. It would just cause the rise of more ISIS type groups.

As for Assad, we can condemn all equally. I for one for example think the Saudi regime are barbaric and living in the 7th century. I thought Gadaffi equally was barbaric and Saddam. I think the complicating problem in Syria was the size of the Sunni population and how beaten down they were with the Alawites getting all the good jobs and so on.

Finally whatever Assads motivations, he spent an awful lot of his time and energy targetting unarmed civilians, almost to the point where he neglected fighting the armed opposition.

IrishTrajan

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The Russians occasionally do it but mostly in the Black Sea region, their own back yard. The Iranians never do it nor the Chinese.

They have not done it to a Carrier group, as far as I know. Carriers aren't even allowed in the Black Sea.

IrishTrajan

Also, apparently ISIS had launched an attack into SAA supply route during the SAA advance on Aleppo. Russian airstrikes have neutralized most of ISIS gains and been turned back by the SAA. It's not clear whether the entire road is under SAA control again.

Jaish Al-Fateh have also begun another Hama Offensive.

Shurimgreat

Some good accounts of the offensive on wikipedia, updated on a daily basis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo_offensive_(October_2015)

Its been very bloody and costly, particularly for the government as all their offensives have been. They are struggling to win a couple of villages at large cost to themselves. The idea they can retake Aleppo even with Russian and Iranian help is remote.

Good to see the FSA in the thick of the fighting.

The counter attack was carried out by Sham Revolutionary Brigades and Division 13, the latter a CIA-funded secular group, with videos showing a TOW missile attack destroying a bulldozer and later capturing a BMP-1.[20][21]

glued

It's quite disturbing seeing people in a modern society supporting groups such as Division 13 who fight alongside Salafists like the Islamic Front, while claiming secularism to secure weapons and support from the US.

Also the Syrian Army have won ground in Aleppo, not just the villages recently captured like some misinformed people would suggest. The Syrian Army have been winning ground in the western and northern parts of the city since 2014 and have actually advanced into southern and eastern parts of the city too.

Shurimgreat

glued wrote: »

It's quite disturbing seeing people in a modern society supporting groups such as Division 13 who fight alongside Salafists like the Islamic Front, while claiming secularism to secure weapons and support from the US.

Also the Syrian Army have won ground in Aleppo, not just the villages recently captured like some misinformed people would suggest. The Syrian Army have been winning ground in the western and northern parts of the city since 2014 and have actually advanced into southern and eastern parts of the city too.

It's even more disturbing to read and witness bone vide apologists for the regime and their efforts to highlight victories of Assad.

You seem to be one of these people who portray Assad as a moderate and a bulwark against extremism. Can't you see Assad is the most extreme of them all?

Bad and all that ISIS are they have yet to drop even one barrel bomb on civilians. In many areas they actually defend civilians from Assad forces. In their early days they were seen as liberators by many Sunnis and still many Sunnis sympathise with them. A lot of Sunnis would take ISIS over Assad any day of the week, hence the reason ISIS have been able to become so strong in Syria.

glued

Shurimgreat wrote: »

It's even more disturbing to read and witness bone vide apologists for the regime and their efforts to highlight victories of Assad.

You seem to be one of these people who portray Assad as a moderate and a bulwark against extremism. Can't you see Assad is the most extreme of them all?

Bad and all that ISIS are they have yet to drop even one barrel bomb on civilians. In many areas they actually defend civilians from Assad forces. In their early days they were seen as liberators by many Sunnis and still many Sunnis sympathise with them. A lot of Sunnis would take ISIS over Assad any day of the week, hence the reason ISIS have been able to become so strong in Syria.

I've criticised Assad on here so I'm not sure where you're picking that up from. I'm only highlighting the facts of the situation. You're solely focusing on critiquing Russia and Assad at every opportunity and you're distorting the facts in doing so. The fact remains that Asssd has gained more territory since Russia has become involved.

I'm not supporting anybody in this war bar the moderate rebels. Unlike you, I see a very bleak and dark future for Syria. I don't support the Extremist Rebels or Assad or Russia or the US. Assad must be removed but the Rebels have been trying to do that for nearly half a decade at this stage and have failed miserably as they continue to push this Free Syrian Army nonsense when in reality the only thing most of these groups can agree on is to remove Assad.

The only groups I support are the moderate Rebels and most of them have been destroyed or have turned over their arms to extremist groups. They simply have no support on the ground. In order for the moderate rebels to succeed they need US troops on the ground to stop the moderates being poached of weapons and destroyed.

Russia have only succeeded in creating further chaos in Syria and propping up Assad which will only prolong this war.

Shurimgreat

glued wrote: »

It's quite disturbing seeing people in a modern society supporting groups such as Division 13 who fight alongside Salafists like the Islamic Front, while claiming secularism to secure weapons and support from the US.

Clearly you think Hezbollah and the Iranians who are doing the bulk of the fighting are much better.
Based on your previous posts your claim not to support Assad cuts no ice.

The west should have supported groups like division 13 from day 1 to ensure they became the strongest group. There is now some belated support from the CIA it seems. Had they been supported they wouldn't have to form alliances with islamic groups.

Its been plainly obvious from day 1 that the longer Assad fights the more recruits he attracts to Islamic opposition groups. And still people say Assad should fight on.

Streetwalker

The US should have supported nobody from day one thats the crust of the problem right there.

Shurimgreat

Streetwalker wrote: »

The US should have supported nobody from day one thats the crust of the problem right there.

Not really. Rebel groups will always find ways and means to arm themselves such as over running bases. Most of their arms and ammunition was captured from the Syrian army.
I guess you still believe Assad is the best option for Syria and are willing to turn a blind eye to his crimes. Some of us around here aren't prepare to turn a blind eye.

Some of the proponents of realpolitik on the pro Assad side would put Henry Kissinger to shame!

glued

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Clearly you think Hezbollah and the Iranians who are doing the bulk of the fighting are much better.
Based on your previous posts your claim not to support Assad cuts no ice.

The west should have supported groups like division 13 from day 1 to ensure they became the strongest group. There is now some belated support from the CIA it seems. Had they been supported they wouldn't have to form alliances with islamic groups.

Its been plainly obvious from day 1 that the longer Assad fights the more recruits he attracts to Islamic opposition groups. And still people say Assad should fight on.

No, again you're making assumptions on my view. Assad is better organised because of the Russians and Iran. The rebels biggest problem is that they aren't fully co-ordinated. Some of the groups such as Jaysh-al Islam are just focusing on ISIS. The extremist groups have a much better and continuous supply of weapons. If the US was serious about supporting moderate rebels in Syria they would have boots on the ground and it looks as if they aren't prepared to do that.

While they aren't going to support the rebels fully they have no chance of making any material gains against Assad because as soon as they do the Russians will have no problem bombing them. The US can crank the pressure up on Russia through the media but until they actually fully support the moderate Rebels, they don't have a chance of gaining and sustaining any ground against Assad.

IrishTrajan

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The counter attack was carried out by Sham Revolutionary Brigades and Division 13, the latter a CIA-funded secular group, with videos showing a TOW missile attack destroying a bulldozer and later capturing a BMP-1.[20][21]

The ATGMs seem to be an absolute nightmare against armour, but I think the SAA still has the upper hand against infantry with those MLRS they are packing. Apparently they've used thermobaric warheads with them against infantry positions, it looks absolutely deadly.

BoJack Horseman

IrishTrajan wrote: »

The ATGMs seem to be an absolute nightmare against armour,

It's an odd choice don't you think?
They are such large immobile things, and wire-guiding seems cumbersome in an urban environment.



I'd prefer a Carl Gustaf or a good RPG.
(but when I have my own insurgent war, I'll get to chose myself!)

glued

Israel is looking to expand its settlements in the Golan Heights according to the New York Times. I wonder will that spark more violence in the Golan Heights which has only has a few minor incidents since the war erupted with about 10-15 Syrian, Hezbollah and Iranian soldiers killed.

Israel just being Israel as ususal :rolleyes:

RainMask

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Not really. Rebel groups will always find ways and means to arm themselves such as over running bases. Most of their arms and ammunition was captured from the Syrian army.
I guess you still believe Assad is the best option for Syria and are willing to turn a blind eye to his crimes. Some of us around here aren't prepare to turn a blind eye.

Some of the proponents of realpolitik on the pro Assad side would put Henry Kissinger to shame!

I bet if i rebelled against you and threatened to ass rape and murder you in public (a la Gaddafi) you would drop a barrel bomb on me without a second thought.

As bad as Assad is anyways, i dont see him invading towns, putting women and children in cages and selling them off for a few dollars.

Least worst option is transpiring; help Assad and syrian state gather control of territory again, finish off Isis. Then afterward transition to a more representative government, then assad can go to disney land like Israel, Saudi, Turkey and the US have be wailing on about and somone else can represent the Damascus area in whatever future government or whatever.

Of course theres always the chance he might not want to go, they tend to be a bit like that around those parts, strong work ethic .

No problem to be anti assad at all, but isis will take the place over if he fails and thats a big NO NO as far as most of the civilized world is concerned.

Shurimgreat

RainMask wrote: »

I bet if i rebelled against you and threatened to ass rape and murder you in public (a la Gaddafi) you would drop a barrel bomb on me without a second thought.

As bad as Assad is anyways, i dont see him invading towns, putting women and children in cages and selling them off for a few dollars.

Least worst option is transpiring; help Assad and syrian state gather control of territory again, finish off Isis. Then afterward transition to a more representative government, then assad can go to disney land like Israel, Saudi, Turkey and the US have be wailing on about and somone else can represent the Damascus area in whatever future government or whatever.

Of course theres always the chance he might not want to go, they tend to be a bit like that around those parts, strong work ethic .

No problem to be anti assad at all, but isis will take the place over if he fails and thats a big NO NO as far as most of the civilized world is concerned.

No, he just drops barrel bombs on them instead, a real improvement.

Assad has shown next to no inclination to fight ISIS from day 1. He's allowed them to overrun large parts of eastern Syria without barely laying a glove on them. He even buys oil from them thus funding them even further. If anything he's hampering the fight against ISIS and they've grown stronger by the day while he was in power. Even with Russian assistance he still has shown little inclination to take them on, preferring to focus on the non isis opposition.

No use being a so called Arab strongman if you aren't going to bother taking on the likes of ISIS, and focus your military on bombing civilians instead. Maybe if he used most of his barrel bombs on ISIS instead of civilians they wouldn't be such a problem now.

ISIS have gone from nothing to taking over half the country on Assad's watch. And then he presents himself as the guy to fight ISIS? Give me a break!

Count Dooku

Shurimgreat wrote: »

ISIS have gone from nothing to taking over half the country on Assad's watch. And then he presents himself as the guy to fight ISIS? Give me a break!

Do you mean that Assad should give Al Nusra and other so called "moderate" rebels take everything they want and instead concentrate on fighting ISIS?
ISIS emerged on low populated areas where SAA had very little control, because it was too busy fighting with sponsored by West rebels and he simply didn't have enough resources to protect those areas, because it was more important for him was to keep control over coastal part of Syria, where most of his supporters live

Shurimgreat

Count Dooku wrote: »

Do you mean that Assad should give Al Nusra and other so called "moderate" rebels take everything they want and instead concentrate on fighting ISIS?
ISIS emerged on low populated areas where SAA had very little control, because it was too busy fighting with sponsored by West rebels and he simply didn't have enough resources to protect those areas, because it was more important for him was to keep control over coastal part of Syria, where most of his supporters live

No, I think they should have made a concerted effort to take back ISIS areas, particularly the areas of oil production. The problem is the so called strong man fought the war so badly, he lost support in large areas. Generally that happens when you use barrel bombs and random shelling of towns and villages. You drive people into the arms of AQ and ISIS.

Maybe if Assad hadn't been so brutal he wouldn't now be facing so many enemies and he'd have won the war long ago. When he flattens whole areas, whether there's civilians there or not, he's not going to win hearts and minds. The Americans made a similar mistake in Iraq before eventually learning from their mistakes and working with local communities to get rid of extremists.

JPCN1

glued wrote: »

I've criticised Assad on here so I'm not sure where you're picking that up from. I'm only highlighting the facts of the situation. You're solely focusing on critiquing Russia and Assad at every opportunity and you're distorting the facts in doing so. The fact remains that Asssd has gained more territory since Russia has become involved.

I'm not supporting anybody in this war bar the moderate rebels. Unlike you, I see a very bleak and dark future for Syria. I don't support the Extremist Rebels or Assad or Russia or the US. Assad must be removed but the Rebels have been trying to do that for nearly half a decade at this stage and have failed miserably as they continue to push this Free Syrian Army nonsense when in reality the only thing most of these groups can agree on is to remove Assad.

The only groups I support are the moderate Rebels and most of them have been destroyed or have turned over their arms to extremist groups. They simply have no support on the ground. In order for the moderate rebels to succeed they need US troops on the ground to stop the moderates being poached of weapons and destroyed.

Russia have only succeeded in creating further chaos in Syria and propping up Assad which will only prolong this war.

Perhaps the moderate rebels are in a minority of Syrians...

Count Dooku

Shurimgreat wrote: »

No, I think they should have made a concerted effort to take back ISIS areas, particularly the areas of oil production. The problem is the so called strong man fought the war so badly, he lost support in large areas. Generally that happens when you use barrel bombs and random shelling of towns and villages. You drive people into the arms of AQ and ISIS.

Maybe if Assad hadn't been so brutal he wouldn't now be facing so many enemies and he'd have won the war long ago. When he flattens whole areas, whether there's civilians there or not, he's not going to win hearts and minds. The Americans made a similar mistake in Iraq before eventually learning from their mistakes and working with local communities to get rid of extremists.

Unfortunately Middle East is the place where brutality is symbol of strength and desire to negotiate shows weakness. ISIS never would be able to capture so much, if they wouldn't demonstrate their executions
Assad wasn't proper dictator from birth. He was dreaming to become a doctor and save human lives, but instead his father ordered him to replace him and after that he had to rely on his advisers.

Gatling

Count Dooku wrote: »

Unfortunately Middle East is the place where brutality is symbol of strength and desire to negotiate shows weakness. ISIS never would be able to capture so much, if they wouldn't demonstrate their executions
Assad wasn't proper dictator from birth. He was dreaming to become a doctor and save human lives, but instead his father ordered him to replace him and after that he had to rely on his advisers.

Perception of Power creates dictators and low level thugs and general scumbags ,
Vladi the Jihadi is a perfect example .
Put in a position of power by a group of people and then rose to abuse and oppress and eventually murder their own citizens and other countries citizens.

But you can count on one thing dictators and low level thugs fall and fall hard

Count Dooku

Gatling wrote: »

Perception of Power creates dictators and low level thugs and general scumbags ,
Vladi the Jihadi is a perfect example .
Put in a position of power by a group of people and then rose to abuse and oppress and eventually murder their own citizens and other countries citizens.

But you can count on one thing dictators and low level thugs fall and fall hard

I presume you now will show us examples of democracy on Middle East

Gatling

Count Dooku wrote: »

I presume you now will show us examples of democracy on Middle East

I wasn't speaking about democracy was I

Count Dooku

Gatling wrote: »

I wasn't speaking about democracy was I

Do you know any other alternative for dictators(apart from supported by US "Our Son of a Bitch")?
Or you urgently need to speak about Putin?

Gatling

Count Dooku wrote: »

Do you know any other alternative for dictators(apart from supported by US "Our Son of a Bitch")?
Or you urgently need to speak about Putin?

I'm not speaking about the US either where in my post was democracy or the US .

I spoke about perceived power dictators and general scumbags believe they have but as history has always proved they fall and fall hard.

Thread title Russian boots on the ground in Syria I'd expect vladi would be mentioned unless someone else in calling the shots in the Kremlin

Count Dooku

Gatling wrote: »

I'm not speaking about the US either where in my post was democracy or the US .

I spoke about perceived power dictators and general scumbags believe they have but as history has always proved they fall and fall hard.

Yes - because they take all responsibility for mess they did, while in democracy politicians have chance to escape mostly unpunished, except lost elections
Dictators always appears where people cannot decided own problems by peaceful way or they don't have alternatives which can unite them
BTW, monarchies are not different from dictatorship, especially on Middle East, unless you will show us that headhackers from Saudi Arabia or Qatar is way to go for Sirya

Gatling wrote: »

Thread title Russian boots on the ground in Syria I'd expect vladi would be mentioned unless someone else in calling the shots in the Kremlin

I see

Voltex

One of the problems I think people miss..is that the transition from dictatorship to democracy is a process that requires a series of iterative steps.

Sometimes we Western people miss out on is the historical process most of our Nations went through to establish a free democratic society.

Junkyard Tom

Tweets coming in of intense Israeli action in Southern Syria - totally unconfirmed though.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Quneitra?src=hash

Gatling

unconfirmed for now,
If true things could get really interesting indeed

Gatling

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Tweets coming in of intense Israeli action in Southern Syria - totally unconfirmed though.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Quneitra?src=hash

Videos apparently showing Israeli jets and helicopters have been posted

Junkyard Tom

Gatling wrote: »

Videos apparently showing Israeli jets and helicopters have been posted

Could be bollocks though. Let's wait and see.

Shurimgreat

Rumours an Israeli pilot was captured by IS and they have sent in ground troops to find him.

dubscottie

All bollox.. Like the "super Russian" jet that can take out the F-22 or F-35 ...

Must be great planes seeing as Russia only has a few prototypes.. That cant fly even with existing engines.. (Paris airshow)

But if Vladi the Jhihadi makes the news, the trolls will be here..

All bow to mother Russia..

Looking at the comments I wish the russian state ones would say "HI"

Shurimgreat

I don't think the Russian intervention will help. Its obvious you can't win modern wars without boots on the ground and the Russians/Assad have a rapidly declining number of those. A few thousand Hezbollah/Iranians is not going to make a material difference and is certainly not going to retake Aleppo. The new SAA offensive is probably going to end in disaster and an even worse retreat. Offensives often lead to more casualties than those on the defensive. And Assad has no reserves left.

Gatling

Quneitra where this on going situation is supposedly happening is under SAA control if and that If an Israelie jet was shot down I doubt Isis was involved ,Quneitra happens to be in the Golan Heights area ,

donaghs

Shurimgreat wrote: »

You seem to be one of these people who portray Assad as a moderate and a bulwark against extremism. Can't you see Assad is the most extreme of them all?

You've shown your hand there. Anyone who's travelled the mid-east can find places more extreme than Assad's Syria (and Syria did have Western tourists). Saudi Arabia for starters. And can you really say that Assad's Syria is worse than living under ISIS?

The mix of ethnic and religious groups, and the amount of 3rd level graduates shows a more progressive place than you give credit. Yes, its a dictatorship with secret police that doesn't tolerate much political dissent - but that's just the norm unfortunately in the Arab mid-east.

Gatling

Here's BBCs take on last night's incident in the Golan heights according to the isrealies

There saying an arab paraglided into Syria in apparent attempt to join syrian opposition and an operation was launched to try recover the person

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34630617

glued

Israel's policy in Syria is nothing but a revolving door to say the least. At first they appeared to be neutral and said they will take in Alawi refugees as they will be harmed when the rebels take over. Then they started supporting the rebels in order to keep them away from the Druze. Now, after meeting Putin in Septmeber Netanyahu has said that they will not support the removal of Assad as they are 'neither for or against him'. Russia have reportedly given Israel guarantees that they will not help Hezbollah and will protect Israel's interests in Syria according to the Economist.

Gatling

glued wrote: »

Russia have reportedly given Israel guarantees that they will not help Hezbollah and will protect Israel's interests in Syria according to the Economist.

Like russia can actually be trusted in any which way but what government can ,but when it comes to Russian involvement ask Ukraine about Russian assurances and accords and treaties

karma_

This thread has descended way too far into jingoistic joke territory.

IrishTrajan

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I don't think the Russian intervention will help. Its obvious you can't win modern wars without boots on the ground and the Russians/Assad have a rapidly declining number of those. A few thousand Hezbollah/Iranians is not going to make a material difference and is certainly not going to retake Aleppo. The new SAA offensive is probably going to end in disaster and an even worse retreat. Offensives often lead to more casualties than those on the defensive. And Assad has no reserves left.

The SAA is battered and almost bled white, but air support is definitely a decisive factor. Look at the ISIS-Kurdish fights. US air support has practically eradicated ISIS' ability to launch large scale assaults against the Kurdish.

Russia, although with significantly less capabilities, is still leaps and bounds ahead of the Syrian air force, and they are willing to incur collateral damage to win.

The SAA offensives look like they are set to secure the economic heartland of Syria and ensure the viability of an Alawite State.

Shurimgreat

You cannot compare the kurish advance in the east with what is facing the SAA. The kurds have captured small villages and towns.

Aleppo is a city of 2 million people, twice the size of Dublin. They have 5-10,000 troops for the attack. To retake the city means house to house fighting. There's not a hope of them doing that, russian or no russian airpower. You also have the question of surrounding the city to cut off supply routes and going house to house and holding captured neighbourhoods. Like I said airpower alone will get you so far.

Lockstep

donaghs wrote: »

You've shown your hand there. Anyone who's travelled the mid-east can find places more extreme than Assad's Syria (and Syria did have Western tourists). Saudi Arabia for starters. And can you really say that Assad's Syria is worse than living under ISIS?

The mix of ethnic and religious groups, and the amount of 3rd level graduates shows a more progressive place than you give credit. Yes, its a dictatorship with secret police that doesn't tolerate much political dissent - but that's just the norm unfortunately in the Arab mid-east.

Actually, even before the civil war, Syria was a deeply oppressive country whereas now listed as "worst of the worst"

A regime can be secular and inclusive to women while still being an utterly brutal dictatorship. North Korea is a good example.

johnnyskeleton

karma_ wrote: »

This thread has descended way too far into jingoistic joke territory.

Mod note:

Please use the report post function rather than commenting on thread.

glued

The first Russian has died in Syria. His death is being questioned in Russia. Officially he died from hanging himself due to a personal issue with his girlfriend. His family are denying these claims. A lot of Russians died in Ukraine and the Russian government have covered most of these up either by carrying out funerals in secrecy or by threatening anyone attempting to investigate.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Russia over the next few days. Many Russian soldiers have disappeared in Ukraine and their deaths covered up by Moscow. Many soldiers that died in Ukraine had their records destroyed.

We have the SOHR grossly misstating events in Syria. The Russians lying and covering everything up as usual and the Americans overstating overstating ISIS death tolls (Syria and Iraq).

There is very little hope for the ordinary citizen in Syria when your choice is either to support a bunch of liars or a bunch of liars.