Nina

fiachr_a

Were these old adverts always bad? If some place in Britain or the USA advertised for a cleaner and the advert said "No Irish need apply" isn't that a sign that they didn't want the Irish doing menial work anymore? Other nationalities were now more suitable for this low-paid work. Are modern historians biased thinking that all these adverts mean racism towards the Irish?

Arsemageddon

Think you've got the wrong end of the stick there fella. Anti-Irish prejudice was rife in North America in the nineteenth century because the Irish were seen as both Catholic and not Anglo-Saxon. The 'Know nothings' movement was virulently opposed to Irish migration to the United States. Its was around this time that the previous Irish immigrants who were mostly protestants from Ulster started to identifying themselves as Ulster-Scots rather than Irish. Anti-Irish prejudice faded somewhat in the years after the US Civil War because so many had fought for the union. There is even a book with the deliberately provocative title How the Irish Became White.

The notion that 'No Irish need apply' ads were a figment Irish-Americans imagination and victim mentality was set out in a paper by Professer Richard Jensen. Jensen has been comprehensively slapped down by a high school student how found dozens of examples of such ads.

The notion that people who placed 'No Irish Need Apply' just wanted the Irish to have the best jobs is very woolly.

http://www.longislandwins.com/columns/detail/high_school_student_proves_professor_wrong_when_he_denied_no_irish_need_app

Manach

I'd not know of those signs myself. But read of the Chinese equivalent "No Chinese" etc of their treaty ports/enclaves era. This was in Prof. MacMillans book "Use and Abuse of History.". Her conclusion was that this type of sign was rare but the existance of such was used as a grivance, a rallying cry, used to drum up support for the revolutionary party (Communist) that decried such. Hence it build a social solidarity against a preceived common enemy.

fiachr_a

Arsemageddon wrote: »

The notion that people who placed 'No Irish Need Apply' just wanted the Irish to have the best jobs is very woolly.

No more woolly than these always meant "racism". If the word was can or allowed then that would be . But need can have a positive meaning too. A notice in a shop window "Wanted, people to remove dog crap from footpaths. No Irish need apply". How would that be considered offensive to people from Ireland? Some of these old adverts might indicate that the Irish are no longer considered for these lowly jobs?

jonniebgood1

fiachr_a wrote: »

No more woolly than these always meant "racism". If the word was can or allowed then that would be . But need can have a positive meaning too. A notice in a shop window "Wanted, people to remove dog crap from footpaths. No Irish need apply". How would that be considered offensive to people from Ireland? Some of these old adverts might indicate that the Irish are no longer considered for these lowly jobs?

No. The adverts in question were not as per you last question.

If this was a more common occurance (the NINA signs) I think there would be alot more evidence. I had trouble finding much information about it on a previous thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77644874

tabbey

I cannot say I ever came across such adverts. However, I did have the following experience in an upmarket suburb of London, in 1979. I replied to an advert for accommodation, near my employment, the householder said " I don't think you are quite what we had in mind, our last lodger was an officer in the Royal Navy". For all she knew, I might also have been a naval officer, but my accent betrayed my nationality.
Having said all that, I respect a householder's right to have their choice of lodger, just as a lodger has the right to choose their place of lodging. It is also better to be frank in the beginning, rather than wasting time, or taking in a lodger, with whom they are uncomfortable.
In cases of employment, discrimination is less justified, but it is virtually impossible to legislate for attitudes.

Victor

fiachr_a wrote: »

Were these old adverts always bad? If some place in Britain or the USA advertised for a cleaner and the advert said "No Irish need apply" isn't that a sign that they didn't want the Irish doing menial work anymore? Other nationalities were now more suitable for this low-paid work.

then why did other signs say "No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs"?

It was about keeping every* 'native' in a job and keeping migrants in a subsistence existence at best.


* Some natives didn't qualify as natives, especially natives.

laoch na mona

fiachr_a wrote: »

No more woolly than these always meant "racism". If the word was can or allowed then that would be . But need can have a positive meaning too. A notice in a shop window "Wanted, people to remove dog crap from footpaths. No Irish need apply". How would that be considered offensive to people from Ireland? Some of these old adverts might indicate that the Irish are no longer considered for these lowly jobs?

it's very simple saying a particular race/nationality should not apply for a job is racism, the idea that the irish were some how not low enough for certain jobs is still racist as it assumes their is a new race easier to exploit