Bad mother daughter relationship

Littlespace

Hi all,
Cannot find anywhere appropriate to post so I'm starting a new thread and seeking advice of daughters who maybe are or have been in a similar situation.

Ok here goes....
My confidence levels have never been good. I've never had high or even normal levels of self esteem. A year and a half ago a man came booming into my life and hasn't left! He's the best in the world but my confidence issues have caused us to argue. We had a big heart to heart one evening and I told him how bad I felt about myself. He was surprised, said he knew I was shy but that's ok. When I told him exactly what I thought of myself (disgusting, useless, a pain in the arse, irritating) he was taken aback. He asked how long I've felt like this and I honestly couldn't remember ever not feeling like this. I can't remember if I've ever been confident in myself as a whole person, ever. So curiosity got the better of me. Why do I feel this way and is there a way to change this?

I made an appointment with a CBT councellor. After a few sessions it became very clear where all my negative feelings come from....my mam.

To say I was devestated is an understatement. I trawled through everything that she done to me from when I was a little girl to now. The stuff that came out was awful. I was locked outside the back door as a child over bad test results, school bag searched regularly, called a fat little piggy, told my mouth was too big for my face, fat arse, little bitch, and examples of recent digs....you'll be the reason I drop dead some day, right little bitch, and hitting me, digging her knuckle into my back or shoulder and keeping me in her house,making me feel horrible if I want to leave.....guys, I'm 34!

Those examples are only the start, so many more things came out including a constant lifelong comparison between my cousin and I. I barely know this girl but I hear about her and her kids everyday. We work in the same profession but she's the one who gets the pity if hours are long or gets sick. I haven't seen this girl in over two years but I will freely admit that I am GREEN jealous of her.

The main reason I'm writing this is, my boyfriend and I have been talking about our little future family. We're both really looking forward to having a brood of our own. But my mother really looks down on women who have children outside of marriage. I have no interest in marriage anytime soon. I'm so happy and content with our set up as it is and financially, it's a no go. We'd both love to elope on our own but it's not an option and besides, a family is more important to us. But I know my mother, she'd give up work, she'd become a recluse because of her tramp daughter. Recently in tesco she bumped into a woman who's daughter had a little girl at Christmas....but no ring on the finger. Mams reaction was "isn't she great to be out and about, very brave". It's comments like this that make me think that I would be lining myself up for the most stressful pregnancy ever if I wasn't married.

I know I shouldn't care, I know I'm 34, I know she's way out of line thinking that she can control me, but this is a biggie, this is something that I reeally really want but I know in my heart and would that my little baby wouldn't be as loved by her because of the lack of a wedding ring.

I don't have anyone to talk to about this other than himself and the councellor. I'd like a completely neutral view on this.....

Sorry for the spelling mistakes and woeful grammar, it's late!

Thank you for listening

X

LegacyUser

Oh my heart goes out to you, the stuff you've said is awful. No wonder you have self-esteem issues. But, on the good side, you BF seems like a good guy, and you are doing something about the issues. Fair play to you for that: that takes bravery.

I don't understand though why eloping isn't an option? Totally fair enough if you never want to get married - you & he do need to check out the tax implications if that's the case though - as far as I know the rules re inheritance tax are pretty low if you're not married. Plus next of kin rules, and if you have kids, the guardianship rules.

Good on you for being brave enough to address your issues, especially coming from a background where I gather you were conditioned to believe that you were weak and not brave.

strandroad

Why would you care if she loves the baby? She's clearly quite a toxic individual, would you say that she loves you, her daughter, at all? Her treatment is abusive and her views are mean and outdated.

Looks like your therapy allows you to deal with her legacy you were not even aware of, you should continue with it. And start living independently from your mother, you'll start seeing things in perspective if you're not exposed to her all the time.

amdublin

I think you need to explore more with you counsellor.

What does it matter what your mother thinks. Do you even want her as part of your life in the future?

RentDayBlues

I think before you even consider trying o get pregnant you need to sort yourself out and create the proper environment in which to raise a child. I am not talking about getting married, I am talking about removing the toxic element that your mother appears to be.

If you have been so damaged by her, then by on earth would you contemplate having her in your child's life? You need to speak to your counsellor and work through these issues. You and your partners decisions to have a child should not include anyone else's opinion but your own

CaraMay

Don't hang around on the having kids part. It only costs about €150 to get married so I don't see why that's an issue.

I really think your mother should have next to no access to any child you have as you would be opening up the child to the same treatment you got. She's a very nasty individual.

daisybelle2008

OP I agree with the others who say you should do as much counselling as possible before you had a child. You seem very concerned with your mothers approval, pleasing her, and wanting her to love your child. It is an unhealthy dynamic where a very dysfunctional person has a lot of power over your life. I'd be removing yourself as much as possible from her company while you do your cbt. You don't seem to have good coping mechanism for her. If you can't protect yourself from her it would be worrying for a child to be in that situation.

Littlespace

I 100% agree with you all. I agree rentboyblues, I DO want to be in a healthy state of mind before I have a child. I'm really glad I posted here, I was thinking of giving up on councelling as it was too hard, cutting down on time with her was getting too awkward and guilt ridden! But now I see that's not an option, I'll keep going. I'm her punchbag and scapegoat and it has to stop.

Thanks for all the replies, really helpful

CaraMay

Well done op. You sound like a lovely person and it's fantastic that you've met such a great partner in life. People move on from toxic childhoods all the time and it sounds like you are on the right path.

amdublin

So very true cara may. Good luck op.

mylefttesticle

keeping me in her house,making me feel horrible if I want to leave.....guys, I'm 34!

You need to sit your mother down and give her the option of getting help to save your relationship and to heal it.

If she declines help as she most likely will then walk away.

If your Bf behaviour was like this would you stay with him? The name Mother or father is just a label as the reality is so much more or less depending on the person. It was really only after becoming a Father that i was able to see through my parents behaviour and all my emotions was replaced by one thing: Pity! The feelings i had for my child they just simply didn't have for what ever reason and some of the things they did and let happen to me as a child just were the opposite to the love and protectiveness i have as father as it makes me physically ill to think that those same things could happen my child but they won't as i am nothing like them. Now i choose if i see them and they have no effect on me.

Littlespace

Mylefttesticle, I've only done 4 sessions so I'm not sure if I'm ready to sit her down yet. I've pictured the conversation we would have and have it rehearsed for years now. Any time there's been a big blow out, I let fly, I tell her I was a good child, I did nothing wrong, why doesn't she give my brother the same crap as she gives me? But I'm always told that I'm a spiteful bad little bitch. She'll always leave the room leaving me winded and blown away by what she's just said, then she'll come back in, pretend to be tidying up and then she'll play the death card. My brother passed away 13 years ago and she'll either say (wistfully) how she hopes she'll see him soon, and she wishes she was with him, or, that she'll drop dead at 63 like her own mother and I'll be the cause. So when the day comes that she does eventually die, I'm terrified of being left guilt ridden and messed up! That's another reason i want to get myself sorted.

Her relationship with my older brother was, in her eyes perfect. In reality he had what I'd love, a life far away from her, spoke once a week, put his own life first. My younger brother is the same. Totally indifferent to her at this stage. Then there's me in the middle. I grieved for my brother and got over it. Our relationship wasn't amazing. It was grand I suppose. I didn't really now him. He was three years older than me and was 25 when he died. He vet much had his own life. But after a few years I learned to deal with him passing and moved on with life, which is the normal thing to do, and is what I hope to be able to do when mam dies, and she will, we all will and I can't be afraid of someone else dying all my life!

ManOfMystery

Littlespace wrote: »

Mylefttesticle, I've only done 4 sessions so I'm not sure if I'm ready to sit her down yet. I've pictured the conversation we would have and have it rehearsed for years now. Any time there's been a big blow out, I let fly, I tell her I was a good child, I did nothing wrong, why doesn't she give my brother the same crap as she gives me? But I'm always told that I'm a spiteful bad little bitch. She'll always leave the room leaving me winded and blown away by what she's just said, then she'll come back in, pretend to be tidying up and then she'll play the death card. My brother passed away 13 years ago and she'll either say (wistfully) how she hopes she'll see him soon, and she wishes she was with him, or, that she'll drop dead at 63 like her own mother and I'll be the cause. So when the day comes that she does eventually die, I'm terrified of being left guilt ridden and messed up! That's another reason i want to get myself sorted.

Her relationship with my older brother was, in her eyes perfect. In reality he had what I'd love, a life far away from her, spoke once a week, put his own life first. My younger brother is the same. Totally indifferent to her at this stage. Then there's me in the middle. I grieved for my brother and got over it. Our relationship wasn't amazing. It was grand I suppose. I didn't really now him. He was three years older than me and was 25 when he died. He vet much had his own life. But after a few years I learned to deal with him passing and moved on with life, which is the normal thing to do, and is what I hope to be able to do when mam dies, and she will, we all will and I can't be afraid of someone else dying all my life!

Your mother is a toxic woman, and a master manipulator.

You have not been a bad person. You sound like you are a thoughtful, intelligent and good person who has unfortunately not been dealt a fair hand when mothers were being handed out.

When the day comes that your mother dies, it will be for a physical reason - illness or old age - not because of anything you did. You know this. Parents who are so stressed by their offspring that it affects their health typically do so because their children partake in crime, drugs, unsocial behaviour, extremes. You're not in this category, so don't let this vile woman convince you that you are somehow making her life difficult. Every word that comes out of her mouth is deliberate and designed to make you feel poorly about yourself.

She is playing you like a fiddle, and has done so all your life. She crushes you down to nothing with her words, and when you try to fight back, she plays the guilt card even though you have absolutely nothing to be guilty about. The pattern of behaviour has repeated itself so many times over the years that you're now a shadow of your former self and still feel responsible for your mother's well-being.

I sincerely hope the CBT sessions help to open your eyes to how twisted and manipulative she has been, and how you don't owe her anything or need to feel responsible for anything. It sounds like you're at a (potentially) very good junction in your life where you can build a family with a partner who loves you, so please don't let that start to deteriorate because of doubts and negativity all influenced by your mother.

It's your life. If you want to have a child without being married, have one. If you want to cut your mother out completely (which would be my advice, as she's toxic) - do so. You owe her zilch. Just because someone birthed you doesn't mean they command your eternal respect and loyalty. That is earned, and she hasn't earned it.

mylefttesticle

Littlespace wrote: »

Mylefttesticle, I've only done 4 sessions so I'm not sure if I'm ready to sit her down yet. I've pictured the conversation we would have and have it rehearsed for years now. Any time there's been a big blow out, I let fly, I tell her I was a good child, I did nothing wrong, why doesn't she give my brother the same crap as she gives me? But I'm always told that I'm a spiteful bad little bitch. She'll always leave the room leaving me winded and blown away by what she's just said, then she'll come back in, pretend to be tidying up and then she'll play the death card. My brother passed away 13 years ago and she'll either say (wistfully) how she hopes she'll see him soon, and she wishes she was with him, or, that she'll drop dead at 63 like her own mother and I'll be the cause. So when the day comes that she does eventually die, I'm terrified of being left guilt ridden and messed up! That's another reason i want to get myself sorted.

Her relationship with my older brother was, in her eyes perfect. In reality he had what I'd love, a life far away from her, spoke once a week, put his own life first. My younger brother is the same. Totally indifferent to her at this stage. Then there's me in the middle. I grieved for my brother and got over it. Our relationship wasn't amazing. It was grand I suppose. I didn't really now him. He was three years older than me and was 25 when he died. He vet much had his own life. But after a few years I learned to deal with him passing and moved on with life, which is the normal thing to do, and is what I hope to be able to do when mam dies, and she will, we all will and I can't be afraid of someone else dying all my life!

The thing is she has given you a sense of guilt rather than a sense of love, guilt is one of the truly horrible things a parent can give to their children as it festers long after they have ceased to exist and like a cancer it riddles a persons life daily. You do need to confront your mother and you need to stand on your own two feet because if you ever have children then without having dealt with your Motherly issues yours and hers then that will always have a knock on effect to how you raise yours.

And above all else you deserve to be happy. Parent is meant to nurture, love and protect and on the face of it yours has failed and that is not your fault but you need to mourn that and close it like a chapter of a book. Forgive your mother on a human level and move out and move on.

Littlespace

I do forgiver her, she didn't have a clue how to be a mother in the first place and I'm the poor unfortunate who was subjected to her wrath for so long. But I forgive her, I'm slowly but surely going to move away from her.
Ive always thought that the word toxic was too strong to describe a person or a relationship, but over the last few weeks I've seen that the relationship i have with my mother is toxic. I feel as if i am under obligation to her. I feel that she should be involved in all parts of my life because thats what she says other mother daughter relationships are like, my cousin and her mother are inseparable apparently! I have a funny feeling that this might not be true!

My goal is to achieve tiny goals! For the past four weeks i haven't been calling out to home as much and have cut down on phone contact. My next goal is to seize control over the situations where i have to be with her. I will say when and where we meet and for how long. When i feel the time is right I'll talk to her about all of this. For the moment I'd rather deal with me first. I was asked about the things i do for myself. I exercise to stay healthy but thats it! I wouldn't dream of going to a spa or treating myself as I'd feel too guilty for doing it. I hide/lie about new outfits because I'd feel guilty over buying new things when mam didn't get the opportunity to get anything new. God I'm an awful muppet! Its the guilt, its poison for the soul.

Im so exhausted, i have bags under my eyes and I can't concentrate on work, sleep is full of dreams and my shoulders are in bits! The sky here is black, ready to pour down so all I can think of is a big bag of coal and a fire! And Netflix.

Going to make the most of this day, get everything wrapped up, and shut up shop until monday with a clear conscience!

ManOfMystery

Littlespace wrote: »

My goal is to achieve tiny goals! For the past four weeks i haven't been calling out to home as much and have cut down on phone contact. My next goal is to seize control over the situations where i have to be with her. I will say when and where we meet and for how long. When i feel the time is right I'll talk to her about all of this. For the moment I'd rather deal with me first. I was asked about the things i do for myself. I exercise to stay healthy but thats it! I wouldn't dream of going to a spa or treating myself as I'd feel too guilty for doing it. I hide/lie about new outfits because I'd feel guilty over buying new things when mam didn't get the opportunity to get anything new. God I'm an awful muppet! Its the guilt, its poison for the soul.

Going to make the most of this day, get everything wrapped up, and shut up shop until monday with a clear conscience!

It's an awful way to feel. Most parents hope that their children will grow up to avoid any poverty or mistakes that they suffered, not feel guilty because they have a better quality of life. My father grew up in a very poor household, with an uncaring alcoholic father and so little money that their Christmas dinner often consisted of a tin of soup. He only went to school for a couple of years and has literacy issues but has been very successful in his life thanks to sheer hard work, determination, a natural penchant for numbers and a strong need to avoid any repetition of his past. Myself and my siblings wanted for nothing and I know he would never, ever guilt us because we got to enjoy things he couldn't.

So my advice to you is - go out today and treat yourself. Go and buy something, or have a manicure, or get a massage. You're living YOUR life, not your mothers. Having something nice in your life will in no way negate what came before, and is nothing to feel guilty about. It's time you had some enjoyment.

strandroad

Littlespace wrote: »

My goal is to achieve tiny goals! For the past four weeks i haven't been calling out to home as much and have cut down on phone contact. My next goal is to seize control over the situations where i have to be with her. I will say when and where we meet and for how long. When i feel the time is right I'll talk to her about all of this. For the moment I'd rather deal with me first. I was asked about the things i do for myself. I exercise to stay healthy but thats it! I wouldn't dream of going to a spa or treating myself as I'd feel too guilty for doing it. I hide/lie about new outfits because I'd feel guilty over buying new things when mam didn't get the opportunity to get anything new. God I'm an awful muppet! Its the guilt, its poison for the soul.

Looks like you have it all mapped out and your therapy gives you good guidance in your plans.

Remember that you do not need to cut your mother off completely, you just need to take any control she has over you back so that you are your own person and you can simply shrug off any of her toxic games.

Best of luck!

Littlespace

Manofmystery your dad sounds brilliant. My mothers background was, as far as i know, pretty normal, her own mother was housewife, her father working in the p&t. I never knew my grandmother, she died when i was six weeks old, so i have no idea what kind of person she was. None of my cousins remember her either. I think my mother is the only one from her family who is the way she is. My uncles and aunts have always given their own children a lot of space and freedom. My dad hasn't featured a lot in this thread, he hasn't really had any reason to. He's your typical irish father, quiet, stays in the background. My mother compares him to her sisters husband, a solicitor. My dad has a public service job and has done well for himself and for our family. My mother has prevented him doing alot of things, he has no friends and she belittles him when he gets a text and more or less tells him that he's a fool for sending texts at his age. Same with a camera that I bought him for Christmas. He brought it to a work function and she was mortified when he came home with pictures of his co workers on it....oh dear!

She thinks of us as her children, not his! If he asks her if my younger brother has been in touch, she'll tell him he called but won't reveal anything about the conversation. Its as if she wants a distance between us and our dad. In reality, we'd be no where without him! Poor man.

Littlespace

mhge wrote: »

Looks like you have it all mapped out and your therapy gives you good guidance in your plans.

Remember that you do not need to cut your mother off completely, you just need to take any control she has over you back so that you are your own person and you can simply shrug off any of her toxic games.

Best of luck!

Thats the ultimate goal mhge!

ManOfMystery

Littlespace wrote: »

Manofmystery your dad sounds brilliant. My mothers background was, as far as i know, pretty normal, her own mother was housewife, her father working in the p&t. I never knew my grandmother, she died when i was six weeks old, so i have no idea what kind of person she was. None of my cousins remember her either. I think my mother is the only one from her family who is the way she is. My uncles and aunts have always given their own children a lot of space and freedom. My dad hasn't featured a lot in this thread, he hasn't really had any reason to. He's your typical irish father, quiet, stays in the background. My mother compares him to her sisters husband, a solicitor. My dad has a public service job and has done well for himself and for our family. My mother has prevented him doing alot of things, he has no friends and she belittles him when he gets a text and more or less tells him that he's a fool for sending texts at his age. Same with a camera that I bought him for Christmas. He brought it to a work function and she was mortified when he came home with pictures of his co workers on it....oh dear!

She thinks of us as her children, not his! If he asks her if my younger brother has been in touch, she'll tell him he called but won't reveal anything about the conversation. Its as if she wants a distance between us and our dad. In reality, we'd be no where without him! Poor man.

Your mother has some serious issues I'm sorry to say.

Her creating a void between your father and you & your siblings is yet another example of her trying to exercise totalitarian control. She knows if your father had a stronger relationship with all of you, her position would weaken.

strandroad

Littlespace wrote: »

Thats the ultimate goal mhge!

This might not be a good idea while in therapy, but I find yoga and meditation to be excellent in supporting such work. A good yoga class (that includes philosophy, not just a workout) trains you to gain perspective, to keep healthy emotional distance from harmful aspects of one's life and to fully engage in nurturing actions or relationships. Might be worth considering later on!

Neyite

Here is a long running chat thread about toxic parents OP, I think you'll identify with a lot of what is said in it and will help you a lot.

The counselling sounds terrific, as does your partner. Beware that as both of these sources contribute to your growing self esteem, she will work all the harder to undo your good work. It's been what she's done all her life after all.

Maybe, down the line, an out of wedlock baby is the way to go, because at some stage you'll realise that her influence in your life is corrosive to your wellbeing and its in your best interests to minimise contact. Certainly, when you do have children, you will not want her to start berating them, putting them down, chipping away at their self esteem. She also sounds like the type that would try and 'win' a child over from you which is hugely confusing and dysfunctional for a child. So if she disowns you for having a baby while unmarried, it could very well be a blessing in disguise.

Stick with the counselling, read that thread I linked, it will fall into place at a pace you are comfortable with.

Littlespace

Neyite, thanks very much for that. Had a quick glance. I'll sit down and read it in full later when i have time to myself.

Id just like to note how overwhelmed I feel today. Not by the issues that I've shared but by the help that has been given today. Its only been a few hours since i originally posted and in that short space of time, I feel like I've built up a little virtual army to march behind me into battle. Im on the verge of tears all day reading replies. When I get home I'll let the flood gates open and let it all out!

liquoriceall

Hi I can't full identify with you but I can tell you that when I came out as gay my mother was horrified and said terrible things to and about me. I developed the skill of always delivering everything in a really positive tone of voice as a great thing (eg I met a lovely girl isnt it great?) and leaving the house if she started on at me. She now would never dream of saying anything bad to me as it gets her nowhere. I refuse to take on other peoples guilt or shame. Be proud of yourself. She will be long dead when youre 70 and no kids because you didnt want to upset her

Littlespace

Well done for learning how to handle your mam licouriceall. I use th epostivie tone with people all the time, its a great way of hammering home a point but in a nice way. Its something i have never thoughtf using with my mother. Next time i see an opportunity i"ll use it.