Is this report true or is the author just drinking the Apple-flavoured Kool Aid?

Madd Finn

A report in Silicon Republic suggests that Apple has achieved a "decisive victory" in the "smart phone wars".

Yet there seems to be little evidence presented to support this, apart from the fact that Apple is profitable (in general) while some of its competitors are going through a period of retrenchment. And the author has just been to a big Apple love in in the US.

Should those of us who have traditionally used Androids be worried that apps will no longer be supported, that performance will fall way behind and that we will be encouraged by force majeur to use products from the evil empire of today in the same way that as PC users we had to conform to the Wintel evil empire of before?

Ant695

I don't think so. I think apple are really struggling to inovate at the rate they had been and without steve jobs announcing new features even when they are not really what people want people are not as eager to swallow the crap anymore. They are still failing to address key issues that customers want and are mainly relying on the apple purists who buy everything new day one. The apple watch for example seemed to struggle apart from those who had to have it day one. They are continuously losing money even though their profits are still huge and things like the apple pencil are just stupid gimmicks that most people won't be interested in.

Also the way forward is more universal apps so I don't think that android users need worry. Even microsoft have seen this as the way forward and with windows 10 are trying to encourage developers to make apps that just work for everything. Also androids have some big pluses over apple devices for example the ability to add sd cards and expand memory when apple is restricted to what version you buy. The only selling point apple really have anymore is that they are cool whereas the variety for android is staggering from the expensive sonys and samsungs to the huwaeiis that do the same thing for alot less. With apple you are tied to their product only which really narrows the market.

coylemj

Ant695 wrote: »

They are continuously losing money even though their profits are still huge....

Which school of accountancy did you go to?

NYT July 21st 2015.....

In total, Apple reported a 38 percent increase in profit, to $10.7 billion, from a year ago, with revenue surging 33 percent to $49.6 billion. Sales of the company’s biggest revenue and profit generator, the iPhone, soared 35 percent to 47.5 million units

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/technology/apple-earnings-q3.html

Ant695

coylemj wrote: »

Which school of accountancy did you go to?

NYT July 21st 2015.....

In total, Apple reported a 38 percent increase in profit, to $10.7 billion, from a year ago, with revenue surging 33 percent to $49.6 billion. Sales of the company’s biggest revenue and profit generator, the iPhone, soared 35 percent to 47.5 million units

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/technology/apple-earnings-q3.html

Last article I read said they had lost about 6 billion but that is still a drop in the ocean to them. Cant remember exactly where it was but it pointed out that their profits was still more than several other companies combined. Also I was more talking about their dropping of points in stock market.

GekkePrutser

Why would Android users need to worry?

Don't forget Apple only competes in one market: High-end.

They don't have mid-range (up to 300 euro unsubsidized) or low-end phones at all. They are leaving that entire market up to Android and WinPhone.

Even for high end their phones are ridiculously expensive. 739 euro I think it is now for a base phone with only 16GB. No way am I spending that much on a phone that's outdated a year later.

StonyIron

Net profit was $10.7 billion ...

For the 3rd quarter of 2015 ... That's huge by any standards.

They're managing to colonise a large part of the most profitable part of the sector.

What you have to realise with mobiles is they're consumer electronic. This isn't the same as the PC sector. Apple are basically selling a "thing" with very good branding and tightly integrated everything around it.

Android is a different beast entirely. Huge market share but much of it is low profit margin and the manufacturers are all OEMs really. Google is poised to make the most out of it, if they can monetise it (and not be regulated out of it under anti monopolies laws)

I'm not saying Samsung, HTC etc don't make great devices, they absolutely do, but they don't control the software development or the ecosystem. Apple is 100% vertically integrated and controls the whole iOS world.

It's a radically different business model to Google and the Android OEMs

It's sad to see the likes of HTC struggling because they make some stunning hardware but, they're clearly unable to make the profits they need to keep going.

I don't think Apple are even in the smartphone wars. They're more like Switzerland - sitting pretty making huge amounts of money while all the other players are ripping each other apart.

While some people aren't keen on paying a premium for an iPhone, it seems millions are...
So, as long as that keeps going, apple will be very profitable.

I don't agree they've won or are winning the smartphone wars though. On market share they're tiny compared to Google's os anyway...

micosoft

The issue is that Apple make 92% of the profit of the Smartphone sector. Samsung make 15% of the Smartphone sector. If you realise those don't add up you'd be right because the rest of the makers ALL lose money making phones. Furthermore Samsungs profitability is declining. What does that mean in reality?
- Other manufacturers are going to pull out of the market as it becomes a commodified money pit. Sony, HRC etc will out pull out as they simply can't afford to continue losing money on every handset.
- Samsung will essentially have a monopoly on Android production. And even they are (desperately) looking at creating their own OS to find some way of creating value in a zero profit world.
- So that leaves Apple making $30.8 Billion in Profit alone every year from iPhone.

Who do you think is going to be able to invest in innovation with those financials? How many Android Manufactuers will be left standing? TBF the only people making money from Android are Google. I personally think the solution has to come from Google (some form of revenue sharing).

Finally, from an App perspective you should be worried but for a different reason. It's much much harder to make money from the Android store than the Apple Store. Apple's store, despite having less downloads than Google Play (and ignoring the other android stores) brings in 70% more revenue for IOS apps. This explains why most paid apps arrive first on IOS and often better quality. Developers follow the money. The lack of piracy, credit card info usually entered etc on IOS makes it the compelling ecosystem to develop on.

Madd Finn

StonyIron wrote: »

What you have to realise with mobiles is they're consumer electronic. This isn't the same as the PC sector. Apple are basically selling a "thing" with very good branding and tightly integrated everything around it.

Android is a different beast entirely. Huge market share but much of it is low profit margin and the manufacturers are all OEMs really. Google is poised to make the most out of it, if they can monetise it (and not be regulated out of it under anti monopolies laws)

I'm not saying Samsung, HTC etc don't make great devices, they absolutely do, but they don't control the software development or the ecosystem. Apple is 100% vertically integrated and controls the whole iOS world.

With respect, I think this is very like the PC market as it was some years ago. Apple had the tightly vertically integrated product that everybody thought was so cool whereas the Wintel PC makers were kicking lumps out of each other for wafer thin product margins. Seems like little has changed in some ways.

But of course back then Apple was the one losing loads of money and now they're not. I don't think it's good for one vertically integrated company to dominate a sector like this. So I'll continue to support the Android people. Perfectly happy with my €100-odd Samsung Galaxy and not likely to change.

StonyIron wrote: »

I don't agree they've won or are winning the smartphone wars though. On market share they're tiny compared to Google's os anyway...

Yes. I thought that was a strange claim for a news site to make. You'd expect Apple's PR to come up with this sort of thing but an independent news organisation?

micosoft

Ant695 wrote: »

I don't think so. I think apple are really struggling to inovate at the rate they had been and without steve jobs announcing new features even when they are not really what people want people are not as eager to swallow the crap anymore. They are still failing to address key issues that customers want and are mainly relying on the apple purists who buy everything new day one. The apple watch for example seemed to struggle apart from those who had to have it day one. They are continuously losing money even though their profits are still huge and things like the apple pencil are just stupid gimmicks that most people won't be interested in.

I think I'll regret answering this... So struggling how? They seem to be doing just fine. TouchID is the only practically working touch authentication system out there. They've developed their own alloy (Au7000) for phone manufacture. But most of all people are buying their products in record numbers and paying top dollar for it. Saying terms like "swallowing their crap" would indicate you are hardly impartial yourself? As for "They are continuously losing money even though their profits are still huge" what does that even mean?

Ant695 wrote: »

Also the way forward is more universal apps so I don't think that android users need worry. Even microsoft have seen this as the way forward and with windows 10 are trying to encourage developers to make apps that just work for everything. Also androids have some big pluses over apple devices for example the ability to add sd cards and expand memory when apple is restricted to what version you buy. The only selling point apple really have anymore is that they are cool whereas the variety for android is staggering from the expensive sonys and samsungs to the huwaeiis that do the same thing for alot less. With apple you are tied to their product only which really narrows the market.

Really? Have you used true cross platform apps like PhoneGap? The experiance is meh and the future of App's is deeper integration with the hardware (payments, authentication etc).
There are good design considerations not to have SD cards. HRC and Samsung are pulling SD cards from future phones due to the number of issues poor quality SD cards provide to users.
Having a single curated app store prevents malware being loaded onto the phone.
The reality is many people are plenty happy with the way Apple operates. It's an ecosystem that works for many. Just because you want/like something other then Apple doesn't mean everyone else shares your view.
As someone who has both and develops for both I see pluses and minuses with both platforms.

As someone who needs to decide where I will make money and security for future income I am concerned with the metrics from Android. The next two years will be very rough with a lot of people falling out of the market and potential new entrants who discover other ways to make money on an android based ecosystem. Ironically that could be Blackberry with a hyper locked down version of Android designed for Corporates with their BBM and Good technologies bringing in the money to sustain a breakeven or lossmaking handset division.

StonyIron

Madd Finn wrote: »

With respect, I think this is very like the PC market as it was some years ago. Apple had the tightly vertically integrated product that everybody thought was so cool whereas the Wintel PC makers were kicking lumps out of each other for wafer thin product margins. Seems like little has changed in some ways.

But of course back then Apple was the one losing loads of money and now they're not. I don't think it's good for one vertically integrated company to dominate a sector like this. So I'll continue to support the Android people. Perfectly happy with my €100-odd Samsung Galaxy and not likely to change.



Yes. I thought that was a strange claim for a news site to make. You'd expect Apple's PR to come up with this sort of thing but an independent news organisation?

It's not the same as the PC vs Mac 1980s / 90s situation for a couple of simple reasons.

1. The PC / Mac was not a true consumer electronic device, certainly not in that era and certainly not in the way a phone is.
You didn't need to have amazingly designed hardware and you didn't need vertical integration for quality of service.

2. Apple absolutely never had anything remotely like the amount of leverage they have in the phone market. They were a very niche, not very profitable player right into the early 2000s

3. Apple is actually doing the same with the laptop. They're dominating (profitably) the laptop market by producing desirable consumer electronics.

Apple is currently more like Sony at its peak than it is like a PC maker.