British Army apply for London GAA

armaghlad

What do people make of this? I'm not vehemently against it per se, but not exactly dying about it. Great thing about the GAA is the (almost too) democratic nature of it, so it's up to the London GAA clubs to decide.

I can't imagine too much opposition to them joining to be fair.

(Story on hoganstand.com, can't post link due to newbie status lol)

dobman88

Could maybe be put down in part to sky's coverage. They've seen the games and thought they'd like a go. Or some Irish lads they work with have been talking about it and tg et want to try it. What would be wrong with them playing? If someone is good enough. Sign them up imo.

keeponhurling

I guess the British Army are not actively harassing GAA players in London, so can't see there being any opposition to this.

dastardly00

I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed.
Let them play I say.

tommy100

Sure why not. If they wanna play, let them.

se02orqua5xz9v

Rule 21 was abolished in 2001, so I see no reason to forbid British Army members from playing.

Many people from the Republic of Ireland have been joining the British Army in recent years (123 people in 2011, 70 people in 2012).

Who is to say that these people love Irish culture any less than people who aren't in the British Army?

knird evol

This is a nice development and should receive our full support and collusion.

jmayo

Maybe they are following the yanks who took up hurling after watching match in Shannon on way to Iraq.
Could have US Army versus British Army hurling matches some day.

Dyr

Sure tis grand now that they don't brutalize white people anymore, only arabs.

threeball

Ridiculous that it should even be considered an issue. You can't be going around the world promoting our games then picking and choosing who can play and who can't. How can you expect the games to ever take off in the UK if the association turned around and said the British armed forces weren't welcome. Those days are long gone and good riddance.

DanielODonnell

They can play surely but they wouldn't be welcome in our grounds in Northern Ireland, it is different for southerners though as it is over 90 years since warfare down there. Only a couple of decades ago a mans gaelic surname could cause bother when questioned by one of those sort on the roads in ulster.

RoscommonTom

they would get some belts if the played fellas down here

Realt Dearg Sec

RoscommonTom wrote: »

they would get some belts if the played fellas down here

To be fair, they're in the army, I'm sure they could handle a few belts from Jimmy Junior B .

iDave

Isn't the Irish Guards a collection of NI based soldiers and anyone from the republic who joins the British Army?
If so we're talking about a group of Irish lads playing GAA which is hardly newsworthy.
Nevertheless even if English lads were involved why not just let them play anyway? Opposing this is pseudo-nationalism and not how if feel the GAA should be conducting itself.

Very Bored

I'm staunchly Republican and yet I think its a good idea. These are different times. The British Army is no longer hassling people in the north. Sure, the British Army did some terrible, perhaps unforgiveable things in the north, and in earlier history in the whole of Ireland. That doesn't mean that those now in the Army are the same people, nor that the Army's ethos hasn't changed. I see no reason to oppose it and would even welcome it in terms of bringing our two countries closer together. Sure there will be some pseudo-Republicans who conveniently use the tag Republicanism to thinly veil hatred and bigotry who will oppose it, but they will be, I would like to believe, in a small minority.

seachto7

Willie Frazer won't like this! This will confuse him!

Very Bored

seachto7 wrote: »

Willie Frazer won't like this! This will confuse him!

LOL... he'll probably start up a campaign to ban the British Army for being Provos .

Mal-Adjusted

I can't see how this is anything other than good. supposedly it's 50/50 weather London county board accepts their application though.

Very Bored

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

I can't see how this is anything other than good. supposedly it's 50/50 weather London county board accepts their application though.

It will go down as a horribly myopic stance if they refuse them. It would also give lot of ammunition to loyalists and unionists if they don't get accepted. "We haven't moved on, British Army treated with bigotry" etc. it will do us far more good if London GAA accept them.

seachto7

It would be interesting to see how it pans out. Loyalists/unionists won't play in Ulster as they seem to think the symbolism, flags etc are loaded with nationalist/republican overtones, or as one described it: "a breeding ground for the IRA". You have Willie Frazer, bless him, who gave out about someone in Eastenders wearing a GAA jersey.

I think the GAA is less "loaded" down south. There are plenty of Protestants playing it, but I suppose they would identify with being Irish, so it's not an issue. There are also plenty of people who play GAA down south who have no interest in what goes on with SF, the DUP, the IRA or the six counties!

If the British army were to take the loyalist viewpoint, then the GAA would be full of IRA sympathizers/members, so they shouldn't be going near it! Obviously, the GAA in London is less "loaded"?

Very Bored

seachto7 wrote: »

It would be interesting to see how it pans out. Loyalists/unionists won't play in Ulster as they seem to think the symbolism, flags etc are loaded with nationalist/republican overtones, or as one described it: "a breeding ground for the IRA". You have Willie Frazer, bless him, who gave out about someone in Eastenders wearing a GAA jersey.

I think the GAA is less "loaded" down south. There are plenty of Protestants playing it, but I suppose they would identify with being Irish, so it's not an issue. There are also plenty of people who play GAA down south who have no interest in what goes on with SF, the DUP, the IRA or the six counties!

If the British army were to take the loyalist viewpoint, then the GAA would be full of IRA sympathizers/members, so they shouldn't be going near it! Obviously, the GAA in London is less "loaded"?

Its not whether its loaded or otherwise. Its just those in the British Army are a well bit more rounded than those idiots who think the GAA is loaded with IRA people even in the six counties. Of course, if you are playing against Crossmaglen or a team from the Falls Road then you are going to be coming up against a lot with Republican sympathies because, guess what, people in those areas generally have Republican sympathies. There are plenty of GAA clubs in non-Republican areas though even across the six counties. Also, as I pointed out earlier, there are thinking Republicans and non-thinking Republicans and those who genuinely think about the situation will see the great merit in bringing the British Army into the fold, especially in London.

StonyIron

History is just that: history. Modern Britian has little in common with the Britian that we had conflicts with in the past. It's mostly a forward liking, liberal, very diverse social democracy (despite the Tories best efforts to dismantle the social bit ...)

It's an opportunity to burry the hatchet and create a modern relationship built around *this generation* of people who want to move forward, not the Edwardians and the imperialists who are consigned to the history books at this stage.

The only way you can change things is by making moves like this.

As bad as the past may have been, if we let it define the present, we're basically caught in a never ending trap - an infinite loop of history repeating itself.

threeball

I'm pretty sure that if the GAA in London as seen as less of an Irish social club and more an inclusive sporting organisation that not only would more people be interested in joining but there would also be a significant chance of a funding boost from the UK institutes to help improve the lot of the association throughout Britain. Any even approaching a refusal would be an absolute PR disaster.

Very Bored

StonyIron wrote: »

History is just that: history. Modern Britian has little in common with the Britian that we had conflicts with in the past. It's mostly a forward liking, liberal, very diverse social democracy (despite the Tories best efforts to dismantle the social bit ...)

It's an opportunity to burry the hatchet and create a modern relationship built around *this generation* of people who want to move forward, not the Edwardians and the imperialists who are consigned to the history books at this stage.

The only way you can change things is by making moves like this.

As bad as the past may have been, if we let it define the present, we're basically caught in a never ending trap - an infinite loop of history repeating itself.

Precisely. The amount of people in modern Britain who think ludicrous the situation of a part of Ireland being annexed to their country is staggering. The same as the vast majority of people in every part of Ireland who, regardless of their own thoughts on the six counties, are thoroughly delighted that the bad old days are in the past and hope that they remain there. Accepting the British Army into GAA circles would be a MAJOR sign that the old days are gone. I, for one, deeply hope that London GAA makes the right decision.

Hammer Archer

seachto7 wrote: »

Willie Frazer won't like this! This will confuse him!

This would be the best side effect of giving this the go ahead. He and his ilk see the GAA as a front for the IRA and kids' summer camps as IRA induction camps. His head may very well explode if the British Army get to set up a GAA club.

Dyr

StonyIron wrote: »

History is just that: history. Modern Britian has little in common with the Britian that we had conflicts with in the past. It's mostly a forward liking, liberal, very diverse social democracy (despite the Tories best efforts to dismantle the social bit ...)

Modern Britain was a forward thinking, liberal and diverse society at the time they were running death squads in the north. Modern Britain has always had very little interest as to what their government gets up to outside the island of britain

zetecescort

Hammer Archer wrote: »

This would be the best side effect of giving this the go ahead. He and his ilk see the GAA as a front for the IRA and kids' summer camps as IRA induction camps. His head may very well explode if the British Army get to set up a GAA club.

plenty on the GAA's side who would be against this, fellas like John Arnold in Cork

StonyIron

d

Bambi wrote: »

Modern Britain was a forward thinking, liberal and diverse society at the time they were running death squads in the north. Modern Britain has always had very little interest as to what their government gets up to outside the island of britain

Yeah, they don't care at all. That's why the largest protest in British history took place back in 2003 against the Iraq war.

An estimated 1 million people took to the streets in London to protest that!
(Some figures actually put it at 3 million but that's probably a bit over the top).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2765041.stm

But to say the British don't care about what their government does overseas or outside Britain is absolutely nonsense.

The reason the Labour Party is in tatters is largely because of voters being sick of their lies over the Iraq and other wars and having lost the trust of the British left and centre left.

Also, to be perfectly honest, the IRA's campaign in England really did not help to get the British on side in Northern Ireland in the 1970s and 80s and into the 90s. Had there been more coverage of and more exposure of what was going on in Northern Ireland, I think you'd have seen a far more interested response.

The biggest errors made in Northern Ireland by the UK Government were allowing Stormont to run riot after 1921/2. They turned a blind eye to what rapidly morphed into a totally unstable sectarian mess with total disregard to equality and basic standards of democracy.

A lot of British people are only getting an understanding of what went on in Northern Ireland in relatively recent years and decades. Before that, they really didn't get any exposure to it and I don't think it's something most British people would have accepted or stood by as being acceptable.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Are they looking to set up a club in the army or is it just individual soldiers wanting to join existing clubs in London?

Either way I wouldn't have any problem with it.

armaghlad

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Are they looking to set up a club in the army or is it just individual soldiers wanting to join existing clubs in London?

Either way I wouldn't have any problem with it.

They wish to set up their own club.

I can understand both sides of the argument and while I support progress and increased good relations between Britain and Ireland there are still a lot of complexities concerning the army's role in the north. I certainly wouldn't chastise anyone for opposing this as they have perfectly legitimate reason for doing so.

On an aside is it common for British army regiments to enter sports teams into civilian competitions?

lawred2

armaghlad wrote: »

What do people make of this? I'm not vehemently against it per se, but not exactly dying about it. Great thing about the GAA is the (almost too) democratic nature of it, so it's up to the London GAA clubs to decide.

I can't imagine too much opposition to them joining to be fair.

(Story on hoganstand.com, can't post link due to newbie status lol)

I hope I'm not disappointed to hear that their application has been rejected

Sports are supposed to be a means to leaving political and racial differences aside.

Opposing this makes about as much sense as opposing the Russian national team or the North Koreans.

Politics are supposed to have no real in sporting affairs.

bobbysands81

Their application has been approved.

The British Army will be competing in the All-Ireland club championship next year.

Vote was tied at 15-15, casting vote went to Chairman who voted in favour.

threeball

That it even had to go to a casting vote is a disgrace. These lads are living in Britain, earning a wage in Britain and then half of them decide they don't fancy the British playing their game. Absolute jokeshop

krazyklown

I am truly disappointed that it took a casting vote to pass - I know most of us will never fully understand what Gaels in the North went through during the Troubles and depth of resentment they have towards the security forces but the greater good should have prevailed here. If we aren't about promoting and increasing the popularity and reach of our games then i really don't know what we are about. I would love to hear what the argument against letting them join was. We need our organisation to show that while we are very respectful of the origins and history of the association, we are a modern, forward thinking and welcoming for people of all religions, cultures and nationalities.

lawred2

krazyklown wrote: »

I am truly disappointed that it took a casting vote to pass - I know most of us will never fully understand what Gaels in the North went through during the Troubles and depth of resentment they have towards the security forces but the greater good should have prevailed here. If we aren't about promoting and increasing the popularity and reach of our games then i really don't know what we are about. I would love to hear what the argument against letting them join was. We need our organisation to show that while we are very respectful of the origins and history of the association, we are a modern, forward thinking and welcoming for people of all religions, cultures and nationalities.

it was inevitable that it would be close but the important thing is that the right decision was reached..

Remember the Croke Park hoohaa? The watershed decision is always the closest..

armaghlad

krazyklown wrote: »

I am truly disappointed that it took a casting vote to pass - I know most of us will never fully understand what Gaels in the North went through during the Troubles and depth of resentment they have towards the security forces but the greater good should have prevailed here. If we aren't about promoting and increasing the popularity and reach of our games then i really don't know what we are about. I would love to hear what the argument against letting them join was. We need our organisation to show that while we are very respectful of the origins and history of the association, we are a modern, forward thinking and welcoming for people of all religions, cultures and nationalities.

Being a member of the GAA in the north could have had you killed not so long ago. It's universally accepted that those groupings (if it wasn't the army themselves that is) who carried out these killings had both direct and indirect links with security forces. Some of these groupings are still intact to this day and infact two GAA clubs were attacked this week in Tyrone, one being attributed to the UVF.

Yes it's all well and good being forward thinking and progressive but this isn't one of those simple cases where common sense applies, no questions asked. I'm neither happy nor sad that this decision was taken, it was after all for London GAA members to decide.

dobman88

Isn't it the Irish Guards in the British Army that applied? So they're all Irish men? I don't see the problem here tbh.

threeball

dobman88 wrote: »

Isn't it the Irish Guards in the British Army that applied? So they're all Irish men? I don't see the problem here tbh.

I don't think it should matter if the Taliban were trying to start a GAA club. The organisations main focus should be on the sport, the promotion of the sport and instilling a sense of community whether the game is played in Ballyhooly or Bangladesh. Politics should not come in to it at this stage. Those days are gone.

dobman88

threeball wrote: »

I don't think it should matter if the Taliban were trying to start a GAA club. The organisations main focus should be on the sport, the promotion of the sport and instilling a sense of community whether the game is played in Ballyhooly or Bangladesh. Politics should not come in to it at this stage. Those days are gone.

I agree.

CrabRevolution

I dont have an issue with the Irish Guards entering myself, but the "politics shouldnt come in to it" is a terrible mantra that's only ever brought out to defend despotic regimes, I've never heard it used in a positive sense.

It's the same excuse they gave for allowing Rugby and Cricket teams to visit apartheid era South Africa and is the same reason they give for allowing Russia to hold the world cup despite actively invading its neighbours. Its also always wheeled out when Qatar's brutal human rights record and its slaughter of migrant workers for the sake of building stadiums is brought up.

bobbysands81

dobman88 wrote: »

Isn't it the Irish Guards in the British Army that applied? So they're all Irish men? I don't see the problem here tbh.

You really can't see why some people might have an issue with the British Army playing Gaelic Games given their bloody and brutal campaign against Irish people?

British forces shot dead 14 innocent people in Croke Park in 1920.

British forces murdered Aidan McAnespie as he was on his way to a GAA match.

British forces have long singled out GAA members for special treatment on the basis that they are GAA members.

Very Bored

Disappointing that it was so close. The likes of Willie Frazer will jump on the fact it went to a casting vote. That said, as mentioned earlier, the watershed vote is always the closest. Its still a big step forward that they have been admitted and its another step forward in bringing our two nations together. How about loyalists and unionists now letting a republican flute band play in a Twelfth parade :-P.

Very Bored

I agree with you Bobby, there are many very valid reasons for opposing this and it is completely understandable why some would vote no. Whilst you mentioned the big events why, it should also be recognised that GAA members in the six counties regularly had their hurls confiscated or broken and their footballs taken away or knifed. I think, with your username, you and I share a lot in common in terms of politics. However, there comes a time when the past needs to remain in the past and when opportunities should be seized. It would have been viewed as an aggressive move if the bid had been turned down. It would have been seen, rightly or wrongly, as a bigoted move. This breaks down more barriers and makes the argument of the other side seem ever more petty.

dobman88

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You really can't see why some people might have an issue with the British Army playing Gaelic Games given their bloody and brutal campaign against Irish people?

British forces shot dead 14 innocent people in Croke Park in 1920.

British forces murdered Aidan McAnespie as he was on his way to a GAA match.

British forces have long singled out GAA members for special treatment on the basis that they are GAA members.

Are the people who carried out those orders still serving in the army?

These are Irish men who happen to work for the British Army. It's a job. And they had nothing to do with the history you're referring to.

Very Bored

In some cases, yes they are still serving. And to a certain extent that's not the point. If a neonazi SS fan club team wanted to join the Israeli soccer league then by your token there should be no opposition because none of those players served under Hitler. Yes, you'll say the comparison isn't the same because its a nice and easy little argument to avoid the issue. However, the fact remains that the British Army still stands for pretty much the same things as it did back in the day and so it is still bound to be a sore point for some. That doesn't negate the fact that times have changed, which is why I am pro on the agenda. I also see it as a good PR move. However, to say that there is no reason why it should be understandable why some would oppose it is horribly shortsighted. Putting it another way, why are the British and Irish governments climbing the walls and the unionists and loyalists throwing their toys out of the pram over the possibility that the provos still exist in some form as an old boys network (which I doubt, I think its simply a way to avoid a 2016 election in the six counties) if people with legitimate reasons to do so are not supposed to voice any opposition to the possibility of the British Army joining the GAA?

DanielODonnell

Bobbysands, you left out Colm McCartney and Sean Farmer Derry fans who were coming home from Croke Park in 1975, they were shot by the UVF and the army colluded with them to do this.

keeponhurling

A lot of people will be confused if the British Army wins the All-Ireland club final in Croke Park!

On another note, does the Irish Army have a GAA club, and if so which county do they compete in?
If Irish Army members simply play with their local clubs, i'm thinking say Eoin Larkin playing for James Stephens, then why don't British Army members just play for their local club?

Will anybody who is non-military be banned from joining ?

Very Bored

keeponhurling wrote: »

A lot of people will be confused if the British Army wins the All-Ireland club final in Croke Park!

On another note, does the Irish Army have a GAA club, and if so which county do they compete in?
If Irish Army members simply play with their local clubs, i'm thinking say Eoin Larkin playing for James Stephens, then why don't British Army members just play for their local club?

Will anybody who is non-military be banned from joining ?

The Irish Army wouldn't really need its own team though and I'm not aware of it existing if it does. For example, Eoin Larkin is usually based in the barracks in Kilkenny, a stone's throw from his club.

rebel girl 15

threeball wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that if the GAA in London as seen as less of an Irish social club and more an inclusive sporting organisation that not only would more people be interested in joining but there would also be a significant chance of a funding boost from the UK institutes to help improve the lot of the association throughout Britain. Any even approaching a refusal would be an absolute PR disaster.

That will come once the three Gaelic Games organisations come together properly - Sport England funding will be secured once they do. Not sure what the hold up is at this stage, believe it could be the ladies football again whose provincial council are a shambles and try to be a law unto themselves. Shocking carry on with them. Men's board are very old fellas, not surprised it went to a casting vote to be honest as a lot of the delegates would be stuck in their ways and not progressive thinking

I'm glad it was passed, the lads involved are mostly from the island of Ireland with a few Fijians and South Africans thrown in. A lot of clubs in London do have their own home grown underage teams, which are now into adult teams, where the players playing are British nationalities, but many second generation Irish.

bruschi

keeponhurling wrote: »

A lot of people will be confused if the British Army wins the All-Ireland club final in Croke Park!

On another note, does the Irish Army have a GAA club, and if so which county do they compete in?
If Irish Army members simply play with their local clubs, i'm thinking say Eoin Larkin playing for James Stephens, then why don't British Army members just play for their local club?

Will anybody who is non-military be banned from joining ?

the Army does have teams, I'm not sure exactly of how it operates, but they have played exhibition games in America and Australia. I think they may have gone on All star tours too. A few years back they had a football and hurling team in Australia. Dermot Early and Andrew O Shaugnessy were probably the 2 most known players at the time playing that I can remember. Kevin McStay was also part of management, and I'm nearly sure Jim Gavin was too, could be wrong on that but definitely a Dublin man was.