Renting in Dublin - A Landlords perspective

MarkAnthony

So I thought I'd share so thoughts and mistakes I've had/made.

I've recently become a LL not only in relation to an apartment bought in the boom but also letting out a room in our house. I don't want to be too specific so South City Centre (Apartment) and a Northside suburb (Room). If you know more please don't share it on this thread.

I'll preface my following remark by saying perhaps it because I've put the ad up with too much of a run up. The room was two weeks. I got huge amounts of enquiries in relation to both. The flat I had about a 30% show rate. In regard to the room 30 odd enquiries, 2 people showed up. I'm not sure the crisis is quite that in all quarters, although I've no doubt certain demographics have it extremely tough.

The apartment eventually went for €1000 a month, sans car parking as the deal was struck that this came out (tenants didn't want it) and price was reduced. Demand was not fierce, partly because we did not offer it to the first people we got back to people at which point they had found something and been offered it and grabbed it there and then. The couple that did take it we really wanted as tenants and they bargained (as above). I'm now hearing it's very difficult to find anything in central Dublin under a grand, tbh I put this down to students. Being frank I wouldn't have rented to students, certainly not first or second years.

In regard to the room loads of enquiries including some on the day with many no shows - can't really explain that one.

Point of the thread? Perhaps a mere ramble by myself but I'm thinking this 'crisis' is perhaps more of a self fulfilling prophecy; perhaps driven by behaviour on both sides than a real genuine 1000 people trying to fit in 100 properties. Certainly in RA situations I can believe it's tough but professionals - with realistic standards as to what Dublin property is like for a given budget - not so sure crisis is the right word.

Gmaximum

I'd agree. I've been a landlord for 6 years and am in the process of renting for the third time. There's more interest in viewings but no one is biting my hand off for it.

It's in a good area with excellent public transport and close to the city. Whilst rents have increased I don't think wages have to the same degree

Slydice

How do both of you think you'd get on if you reduced the price of your rent a bit?

Nichard Dixon

Slydice wrote: »

How do both of you think you'd get on if you reduced the price of your rent a bit?

Why should they? There are suitable tenants available at thecrent they are currently charging.

Gmaximum

Nichard Dixon wrote:

Why should they? There are suitable tenants available at thecrent they are currently charging.

Correct I've no doubt I will get the market rent for it. I'm not worried that someone is not trying to hand over a deposit on first sight. Even in the supposedly bad days for landlords it was only empty for a week or so. Most important thing is appropriate tenants

handlemaster

What gets me is the poor way people reply to ads which do themselves no favours such as not even say Dear xxxx Im am .....

Some just say .. Is the house/apt rented ? .... is it still free?.... Literally three or four words .. If they cant be bothered ... neither will I.

All it takes is to write a proper email enquiry and copy and paste the same into each enquiry that they are looking at

dudara

We were looking approximately a year ago. We can afford the upper end of the market and we spent about 1 week looking. Anything I was seriously interested in, I was there on time, well-presented and with details in hand. In the end, we found a place relatively easily, having viewed about 6 prior places. The whole experience definitely wasn't as bad as I had feared it could be.

Gumbo

Slydice wrote: »

How do both of you think you'd get on if you reduced the price of your rent a bit?

They would be shooting themselves in both feet.

lima

Simple supply and demand, if you are charging too much then only the desperate or reluctant will 'bite' as such

Wanderer78

interesting story op, thank you for sharing. to be honest i think there is a serious housing crisis not only in dublin but across the country. this is only developing as we speak. i was a student in dublin for a couple of years, only temporarily staying there, so it wasnt in my interest to rent so i stayed in a hostel. i wouldnt have been able to afford full time in dublin anyway. while i was staying in the hostel, there were other students also doing the same. not only that, there were actually working people staying there to. some were in transit, others simply couldnt find places in their budget range. this was over a year ago. i have been informed that this situation is getting worse, that more students are doing the same and i suspect more workers are probably also doing the same. this is not sustainable. i do understand why you dont let to students though, id probably do the same if i was in your shoes. i partially blame our education system for these kind of problems amongst other things. best of luck with your business.

pillphil

handlemaster wrote: »

What gets me is the poor way people reply to ads which do themselves no favours such as not even say Dear xxxx Im am .....

Some just say .. Is the house/apt rented ? .... is it still free?.... Literally three or four words .. If they cant be bothered ... neither will I.

All it takes is to write a proper email enquiry and copy and paste the same into each enquiry that they are looking at

There's no point in including any of that information if the house is already gone.

MarkAnthony

Slydice wrote: »

How do both of you think you'd get on if you reduced the price of your rent a bit?

Okay without being as flippant as you chose to be, a personal first for me! I'll reiterate that we go loads of enquiries, and quite a few viewings. It was subsequent behaviour that was the issue. Also in relation to the rents charged - how many 1 bed apartments are there for €1000 in Dublin at the moment, let alone Dublin CC? Anther thread puts the count at 9.

I was willing to reduce the rent for the right tenant, and I did.

As for the room, one street over from me was asking for €100 more and was limiting the applications to professional females (err.. :pac:). I specifically allowed students and did not decline RA. On that note I had a single RA applicant that couldn't even figure out the viewing dates despite numerous reminders.

pillphil wrote: »

There's no point in including any of that information if the house is already gone.

Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V or Copy and paste for you yung'uns

Pawwed Rig

pillphil wrote: »

There's no point in including any of that information if the house is already gone.

There is no point emailing at all if the house is already gone???

pillphil

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V or Copy and paste for you yung'uns

I'm more than familiar with copy and paste :P.

I mean there's no point in sending out personal information if the house is already gone. If it's still there, then I'll tell you all about myself.

pillphil

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is no point emailing at all if the house is already gone???

You'd find out if the house was still available.

percy212

How is their grammar?

handlemaster wrote: »

What gets me is the poor way people reply to ads which do themselves no favours such as not even say Dear xxxx Im am .....

Some just say .. Is the house/apt rented ? .... is it still free?.... Literally three or four words .. If they cant be bothered ... neither will I.

All it takes is to write a proper email enquiry and copy and paste the same into each enquiry that they are looking at

MarkAnthony

Wanderer78 wrote: »

interesting story op, thank you for sharing. to be honest i think there is a serious housing crisis not only in dublin but across the country. this is only developing as we speak. i was a student in dublin for a couple of years, only temporarily staying there, so it wasnt in my interest to rent so i stayed in a hostel. i wouldnt have been able to afford full time in dublin anyway. while i was staying in the hostel, there were other students also doing the same. not only that, there were actually working people staying there to. some were in transit, others simply couldnt find places in their budget range. this was over a year ago. i have been informed that this situation is getting worse, that more students are doing the same and i suspect more workers are probably also doing the same. this is not sustainable. i do understand why you dont let to students though, id probably do the same if i was in your shoes. i partially blame our education system for these kind of problems amongst other things. best of luck with your business.

In the room I was specifically looking for a student. My only rebuttal (for want of a better term) to your point is that I got very few students applying and none showed up. I wanted to share some specific points on that actually.

My wife works for one of the major dublin universities and is in work inside 30 minutes from here. Said university did a huge song and dance about accommodation to staff and leafleted areas. Wife submitted ad, said university didn't post it.

Said wife told me off for not putting the ad in the students section on DAFT. I thought they'd just look on all house shares - brains of tomorrow and all that. Either they didn't want to live in the burbs, were terrified of 'da Northside' or didn't look. I'm from Oxford and ever since I can remember the Oxford colleges had a huge list of Landlords to house students and a fairly good system for matching them, this was (OMG I'm old) even pre-internet!

Again I don't want to detract from specific cases of hardship but I think the student issue has a lot to do with wanting to live in the CC or very close to Uni. I can't complain having gone to University in an ex-mental hospital it was customary for 9am lectures to have a contingent of people in dressing gowns and slippers sitting at the back, I numbered among them on several occasions.

MarkAnthony

pillphil wrote: »

I'm more than familiar with copy and paste :P.

I mean there's no point in sending out personal information if the house is already gone. If it's still there, then I'll tell you all about myself.

Fair enough. The self control it took not to be flippant to the previous poster broke down when talking to you, sorry!

One thing I will say in relation to not just LL but various selling sites is take the bloody ad down when it's gone! Pretty please! I must admit it took me until around 11pm to take the ad down and I felt bad for that, some people seem to leave them up for weeks!

Wanderer78

MarkAnthony wrote: »

In the room I was specifically looking for a student. My only rebuttal (for want of a better term) to your point is that I got very few students applying and none showed up. I wanted to share some specific points on that actually.

My wife works for one of the major dublin universities and is in work inside 30 minutes from here. Said university did a huge song and dance about accommodation to staff and leafleted areas. Wife submitted ad, said university didn't post it.

Said wife told me off for not putting the ad in the students section on DAFT. I thought they'd just look on all house shares - brains of tomorrow and all that. Either they didn't want to live in the burbs, were terrified of 'da Northside' or didn't look. I'm from Oxford and ever since I can remember the Oxford colleges had a huge list of Landlords to house students and a fairly good system for matching them, this was (OMG I'm old) even pre-internet!

Again I don't want to detract from specific cases of hardship but I think the student issue has a lot to do with wanting to live in the CC or very close to Uni. I can't complain having gone to University in an ex-mental hospital it was customary for 9am lectures to have a contingent of people in dressing gowns and slippers sitting at the back, I numbered among them on several occasions.

i actually think our housing problems and your letting issues are an accumulation of a lot of very complicated problems. apologies, running now. i ll explain myself properly later

MarkAnthony

percy212 wrote: »

How is their grammar?

I know this will put me in a bad light but that actually matters. Firstly I don't want someone I can communicate with for any number of reasons. Secondly

"A bud rm stil goin 4 rent"

gives me a certain impression of the person looking to rent it. Sorry I know even Churchill used 'text speak' in his informal letters but when it comes to an apartment you want a professional and a room, someone you're compatible with. Perhaps then I'm wrong and it's better on the room front for people to be themselves.

Sorry I don't want to turn this thread into me having a go at everyone that disagrees with my point of view. I freely admit I could be wrong on many and diverse points.

athtrasna

Mode note

No need for personal bickering. Charter requests that posters remain civil at all times.

PolaroidPizza

Your 'landlords perspective' is a snapshot nothing more. People will look for what they can afford. If people werent looking at your properties. ..then they couldnt afford it.
AFFORDABLE accommodation in Dublin is scarce...for proof all you need to do is trend the amount of available accommodation on daft over the last few years.

mid

next time you could also try these facebook groups, they seem to be more popular that daft.ie with international students (both have 25,000+ members)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Rentdublin/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/277024535766729/

You can also see 'wanted' ads posted, so you'd see if its someone you'd be interested in renting to before replying.

pillphil

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Fair enough. The self control it took not to be flippant to the previous poster broke down when talking to you, sorry!

One thing I will say in relation to not just LL but various selling sites is take the bloody ad down when it's gone! Pretty please! I must admit it took me until around 11pm to take the ad down and I felt bad for that, some people seem to leave them up for weeks!

No worries.

I wonder is this just different perceptions of email. I tend to see it as conversational(usually short emails), but maybe you are expecting more of a formal letter?

Definitely agree on the second point.

testaccount123

pillphil wrote: »

No worries.

I wonder is this just different perceptions of email. I tend to see it as conversational(usually short emails), but maybe you are expecting more of a formal letter?

Definitely agree on the second point.

An email to a prospective landlord is business related, not casual conversation.

MarkAnthony

pillphil wrote: »

No worries.

I wonder is this just different perceptions of email. I tend to see it as conversational(usually short emails), but maybe you are expecting more of a formal letter?

Definitely agree on the second point.

I'd agree with you to be fair - I think there is a happy medium.

pillphil

testaccount123 wrote: »

An email to a prospective landlord is business related, not casual conversation.

I see what you're saying, however I don't mean it's a casual conversation. I mean it's conversational in the same way a business conversation/phone call is conversational.

If I rang them, the conversation would be "Hi, I'm pillphil, I'm ringing about flat x, is it still available?"
Then depending on the answer, I will give them information about my self or not.
That is the information I include in my initial email.
I wouldn't introduce myself and then launch into a big speech about what I do without waiting to hear whether the flat is available or not.

MarkAnthony

PolaroidPizza wrote: »

Your 'landlords perspective' is a snapshot nothing more. People will look for what they can afford. If people werent looking at your properties. ..then they couldnt afford it.
AFFORDABLE accommodation in Dublin is scarce...for proof all you need to do is trend the amount of available accommodation on daft over the last few years.

I have an issue with this I must say. I'm afraid being a very boring person when I'm away I tend to look at estate agents, just the windows mind

I was in Bordeaux recently, much more expensive than Dublin and a smaller city. In Toulouse about the same size as Dublin (IIRC) much more expensive. Returning to Bordeaux some of the suburbs make Dublin look positively beautiful. Oxford - my home ground, much more expensive than Dublin with lower wages.

Again I don't want to detract from genuine hardship. We've completely screwed up policies in relation to social housing and RA but I do wonder is there a contingent of people living in Dublin that don't need to be here. Of course the policies that have screwed up social housing has also screwed up proper relocation and regeneration efforts. I wouldn't wish Ballymun (As in old Ballymun) on anyone. There also does not seem to be the appetite for the SE on England approach of mixing in social housing into all new builds which would be my personal approach.

I suppose genuine hardship aside my point is this. We're either an up and coming European capital with investment, tech jobs and money floating about or we're not. Are the tech jobs here under false pretences? Personally I think they are but that's a different thread, however the bribery of getting them here is perhaps costing us.

sugarplum202

I have to say Mark Anthony, you do seem to be a very conscientious and upright LL, and I for one agree with you about emailing a landlord being a professional venture, and I would expect nothing less from one of Rome's best generals, but as far as my experience and others has been, you are a definite minority.

Of course, it's a 2 way street, and I'm one of those dreaded students that no one wants to rent to, and sometimes I can see why, but the fact is there are a lot of people out there who will only rent to students, because they feel they can offer them digs in any condition, and take advantage of them however they can. This has gotten worse since "the housing crisis" has become so publicised, with all sorts of cretins crawling out of the woodwork. I have a friend doing a masters at the moment, who was offered the back of someone's shed in Dublin for 150eu Sunday to Friday, with the obligation to vacate the premises every weekend.

The problem I believe, is that we have never had a traditional rent culture in Ireland, and now that renting is becoming by far the most pragmatic solution, it's a largely unregulated area, and everyone is "panic, panic, panic" with nobody knowing their rights.

Slydice

I'm confused. I thought you were talking about supply and demand.

I thought you were saying you didn't think there was a high demand for your places to rent.

It sounded like you were surprised that you hadn't experienced an overwhelming feeling of demand.

I asked how you thought you'd get on if you reduced the price of your rent a bit. Do you think the demand might go up or down?

MarkAnthony

Slydice wrote: »

I'm confused. I thought you were talking about supply and demand.

I thought you were saying you didn't think there was a high demand for your places to rent.

It sounded like you were surprised that you hadn't experienced an overwhelming feeling of demand.

I asked how you thought you'd get on if you reduced the price of your rent a bit. Do you think the demand might go up or down?

If you're talking to me you might re-read the OP. It wasn't a supply and demand issue I put forward the idea that we've a behaviour, possibly a culture developing.

In relation to supply and demand I got plenty of enquiries - that would seem to suggest the price was right - further evidenced by they both let within a week or so. People seemed to be interested and took other properties because they were immediately offered, again pointing to a behaviour of possible desperation which I'm suggesting may be unwarranted, especially at certain income levels.

I don't want to sound rude but the conversation is nuanced, I don't intend to reduce the points to sound bites. Occam's razor doesn't always apply I'm afraid.