Amalgamating Counties for the SFC

threeball

I was wondering how strong the opposition would be to the suggestion that some of the weaker counties could be amalgamated at senior intercounty level to provide them with a higher level of competitiveness and a greater chance of success in the long term.

Bar the county boundaries drawn up by the British back in the day there isn't a whole lot that separates the peoples of neighbouring counties and those counties that have never experienced much success recently would benefit hugely from joining forces with the neighbours to form a much stronger challenge.
I'm thinking of counties like Sligo and Leitrim, Westmeath and Longford, Offaly and Laois, Carlow and Wicklow.

I know that people in most of these counties would probably be repulsed at the idea of joining old enemies but in reality its the only way a lot of these counties could ever be competitive and have a realistic chance of winning honours while simultaneously raising the quality of the entire championship.

wackokid

A noble idea 'threeball' but will never happen.
The GAA now is a bit like our native tongue, alive and strong in a few places but practically dead overall.
Yes, there is a lot of excitement in September but only drummed up by the media and of course the competing counties.
It's probably fair to say that there is far more general interest in that horrible foreign game across the channel and indeed
all over the world. There's nobody worried if Dublin can hang onto Bernard Brogan cause they have a big cash offer from Meath or Mickey Harte is being courted by Longford.
It will survive of course in a limited way, just like 'comórtas peile na gaeltachta' and 'connradh na gaelge' but no longer is it the main talking point for the majority of Irish people.
It's a poor product anyway, and the implementation of outdated rules is laughable. No need to highlight the recent cases.

zombieHanalei

Amalgamations don't guarantee improvement. Merge two counties with average players and what you end up with is an amalgamation with just a larger pool of average players. Better depth but not a significant upgrade on the starting team. An amalgamation can only be equal to or marginally better than the stronger of the amalgamating counties.

Look at the Railway Cup in hurling, now and then the suggestion of an Ulster team comes up for hurling, Donal Og Cusack even suggested it; but Ulster pretty much routinely get hammered in the Railway Cup. They have never won it, and have only made the final 4 times in 85 attempts.

Connacht, who are basically just Galway plus one/two players at most, have won it 11 times. Which is a better hit rate for Galway than they have managed in the McCarthy Cup. Despite going up against the whole of Leinster and the whole of Munster, Galway have still been able to compete.

And to be honest, coming back to football, would a 'Rest of Munster' team beat Kerry? I doubt it. I don't think a 'Rest of Connacht' team would beat Mayo. I really don't think a 'Rest of Leinster' team would beat Dublin. Logistically, they pose problems as well, you could end up adding hours to some player's commute to training sessions.

wackokid

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Amalgamations don't guarantee improvement. Merge two counties with average players and what you end up with is an amalgamation with just a larger pool of average players. Better depth but not a significant upgrade on the starting team. An amalgamation can only be equal to or marginally better than the stronger of the amalgamating counties.

Look at the Railway Cup in hurling, now and then the suggestion of an Ulster team comes up for hurling, Donal Og Cusack even suggested it; but Ulster pretty much routinely get hammered in the Railway Cup. They have never won it, and have only made the final 4 times in 85 attempts.

Connacht, who are basically just Galway plus one/two players at most, have won it 11 times. Which is a better hit rate for Galway than they have managed in the McCarthy Cup. Despite going up against the whole of Leinster and the whole of Munster, Galway have still been able to compete.

And to be honest, coming back to football, would a 'Rest of Munster' team beat Kerry? I doubt it. I don't think a 'Rest of Connacht' team would beat Mayo. I really don't think a 'Rest of Leinster' team would beat Dublin. Logistically, they pose problems as well, you could end up adding hours to some player's commute to training sessions.

Excellent post but the question the needs answering is WHY?

Hammer Archer

Amalgamating would sound the death knell for some counties' support. If Meath were to be amalgamated with, say, Kildare you could guarantee that at least 90% of fans of both counties (myself included) would never go to a game again. And that would be repeated across the country. Leitrim fans are Leitrim fans, not Sligo/Leitrim fans.

Poor_old_gill

I can see that you're looking for a logical solution to the issue of competitiveness that is hampering the GAA at present but this is in no way workable on a practical level.

As Hammer Archer said- it wouldn't be supported and to be honest getting player buy-in would be tough so you could actually end up with amalgamations being weaker than individual counties.

threeball

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Amalgamating would sound the death knell for some counties' support. If Meath were to be amalgamated with, say, Kildare you could guarantee that at least 90% of fans of both counties (myself included) would never go to a game again. And that would be repeated across the country. Leitrim fans are Leitrim fans, not Sligo/Leitrim fans.

The likes of Meath are undoubtedly strong enough to compete for all Irelands again so I wouldn't be thinking of amalgamating them but for teams that never have and never will win an all Ireland. Sligo for example would be immeasurably better with the likes of Emlyn Mulligan and a few of the better Leitrim players while a Westmeath that would also have the services of Brian Kavanagh etc. would be much stronger counties.

I know there would be initial opposition but I'd rather win titles as part of an amalgamated county rather be an also ran for the rest of my days. It would also cut costs for these counties hugely and more investment could go into the senior team. I would still keep everything below U-21 separate as its like having a giant development squad.

I'd also like to see Limerick and Clare combine in football. We could end up with a very competitive championship overall with much higher quality games and better attendances.

zombieHanalei

You're seriously overestimating how much this would improve teams to be honest. And you're definitely overestimating the effect it would have on attendances. Would definitely reduce attendances.

Fr Tod Umptious

The only way counties would ever merge is if the game became professional.

There is not enough of a market for 32 full time teams so there would be some consolidation

threeball

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The only way counties would ever merge is if the game became professional.

There is not enough of a market for 32 full time teams so there would be some consolidation

I'd imagine we'll see the game go at least semi pro in the next 10yrs. I just cant see players putting in the effort they do now for nothing for much longer. A 16 team superleague is entirely sustainable and probably the only route for the game in the long term.

zombieHanalei

threeball wrote: »

I'd imagine we'll see the game go at least semi pro in the next 10yrs. I just cant see players putting in the effort they do now for nothing for much longer. A 16 team superleague is entirely sustainable and probably the only route for the game in the long term.

Sustainable how exactly? Would you be happy to wave goodbye to free to air games on tv? Should the GAA cease investing money back into the grassroots in order to heavily subsidise the new teams as would be required? Is it acceptable that clubs lose their best players forever much like has happened AIL clubs in rugby since professionalism was introduced?

The Superleague idea has the potential to plunge the association into financial crisis. A professional player would need to be paid at least €30000, panel of 30 players coming to about €1million minimum, I'm being conservative with that salary estimate so in all reality the actual sum would be higher. Costs involved in running a professional outfit would be greater in terms of training and praying coaches, 16 professional teams would require probably in the region of €30 million annually, where is that going to come from? Tv money won't be large for an indigenous sport on a small island, and attendances are not sufficient to fund it. A dramatic increase in sponsorship revenue perhaps but I don't feel that is realistic either.

threeball

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Sustainable how exactly? Would you be happy to wave goodbye to free to air games on tv? Should the GAA cease investing money back into the grassroots in order to heavily subsidise the new teams as would be required? Is it acceptable that clubs lose their best players forever much like has happened AIL clubs in rugby since professionalism was introduced?

The Superleague idea has the potential to plunge the association into financial crisis. A professional player would need to be paid at least €30000, panel of 30 players coming to about €1million minimum, I'm being conservative with that salary estimate so in all reality the actual sum would be higher. Costs involved in running a professional outfit would be greater in terms of training and praying coaches, 16 professional teams would require probably in the region of €30 million annually, where is that going to come from? Tv money won't be large for an indigenous sport on a small island, and attendances are not sufficient to fund it. A dramatic increase in sponsorship revenue perhaps but I don't feel that is realistic either.

What I'd be happy with has nothing to do with it. The game is going one of two ways. Towards a professional structure with players being paid/"generously compensated" for their time or a move back towards the standards of the late 80's early 90's with far less time and investment at IC level.
Regarding money, well that's not even an issue with 16 teams. The revenue for 2013 was €52 million, there are at least 16 good sponsors who would be happy to pour €250-500k plus into teams, plus advertising at grounds, better attendances at more competitive better structured games and a definite possibility of generating well above €10-15 million from TV revenue if a definite season with a structure that would allow people follow a team in place. In a professional era I would expect revenues to be closer to €75-80 million initially.
Clubs and parishes amalgamate all the time, whether its to make numbers or to be competitive I don't see why intercounty should be any different. Having counties with populations of 31,000 compete with populations of 250,000 is just silly.

Fr Tod Umptious

Professional football would have a max of possibly 6 teams.

Dublin
Rest of Leinster
Ulster
Connacht
Kerry
Rest of Munster.

I can't see a market for much more.

Lucena

threeball wrote: »

Clubs and parishes amalgamate all the time, whether its to make numbers or to be competitive I don't see why intercounty should be any different. Having counties with populations of 31,000 compete with populations of 250,000 is just silly.

Clubs and parishes amalgamate all the time because in general they don't have enough players to survive otherwise. Smaller county teams will always have enough players to be able to continue.

Lucena

As an Offaly person, I've nothing against Laois, but I just couldn't see myself supporting an Offalaois team. Also part of the attraction of seeing the county team play is that there's generally at least one player from the local club playing, so it's always nice to support them as well.

With a larger catchment area, the local guys will have less chance of getting to play for their 'county'.

homerjay2005

its never going to happen or work BUT it would be nice to see a team made up of Christy Ring "all stars" (you could even add players from Laois, Westmeath, Carlow,Antrim and Offaly here also) play against the big boys in a game or two.

maybe they could enter the Railway Cup or something like that???

HighKing33

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Amalgamating would sound the death knell for some counties' support. If Meath were to be amalgamated with, say, Kildare you could guarantee that at least 90% of fans of both counties (myself included) would never go to a game again. And that would be repeated across the country. Leitrim fans are Leitrim fans, not Sligo/Leitrim fans.

Concerning gaelic football, you're right it would make absolutely no sense to amalgamate Meath with any other counties. We have a big enough pick of players to compete at the highest level. However, there is nothing sacrosanct about these county boundaries. They were drawn up by colonial landlords for the purposes of tax collecting. Nobody carries a Leitrim passport.

Let's look at hurling in this neck of the woods. Many of the traditional hurling clubs in Meath lie in the south and southwest of the county. Many of Kildare's strongest clubs lie in the north of the county. In Westmeath, the bulk of the quality hurling clubs are found in the east of the county. Now, for the sake of developing our ancient game and rewarding the many gifted club hurlers in this part of Leinster, wouldn't it make sense to organise a regional team featuring hurlers from the areas mentioned above?

threeball

HighKing33 wrote: »

Concerning gaelic football, you're right it would make absolutely no sense to amalgamate Meath with any other counties. We have a big enough pick of players to compete at the highest level. However, there is nothing sacrosanct about these county boundaries. They were drawn up by colonial landlords for the purposes of tax collecting. Nobody carries a Leitrim passport.

Let's look at hurling in this neck of the woods. Many of the traditional hurling clubs in Meath lie in the south and southwest of the county. Many of Kildare's strongest clubs lie in the north of the county. In Westmeath, the bulk of the quality hurling clubs are found in the east of the county. Now, for the sake of developing our ancient game and rewarding the many gifted club hurlers in this part of Leinster, wouldn't it make sense to organise a regional team featuring hurlers from the areas mentioned above?

Exactly, I'd love to see a rest of Connaught hurling team. To say people wouldn't support such a team is nonsense. People support soccer teams from Germany, Spain and the UK yet wouldn't support a club made up of their own county and the neighbours. Its utter rubbish.
Within 2 years these teams would have more supporters than ever and a chance of being successful. Teams could be named after a common theme between the two counties i.e. a Clare and Limerick football team could be called Shannon for example.

CrabRevolution

People are vastly underestimating how little people would care for a thrown together team. Why would a Leitrim man bother supporting a new Leitrim/Sligo/Longford team that effectively ended his county team's existance?

I'm a Meath hurling supporter and I'd have no interest in some cobbled together team from North Leinster. The Railway cup hurling semi final was held in Trim last year and I'd say there was at most 100 people at it, and I'd say about 10 of those would have paid. This despite there being a host of Irelands best players involved in the match.

savannahkat

Kilkenny could amalgamate with Kerry for Hurling and Kerry could amalgamate with Kilkenny for football. I think they would be a powerful combination with guaranteed high grossing attendances. It is just a suggestion.

zombieHanalei

So, people choosing to support big successful European soccer clubs means people would turn up in droves to support a 'rest of Connacht' 'super' team in hurling??? And that team would have a chance of being successful....

Yep, I've heard it all now. Excuse me while I exit this thread for good!!

randd1

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Amalgamating would sound the death knell for some counties' support. If Meath were to be amalgamated with, say, Kildare you could guarantee that at least 90% of fans of both counties (myself included) would never go to a game again. And that would be repeated across the country. Leitrim fans are Leitrim fans, not Sligo/Leitrim fans.

I agree, I don't think fans would go for it, for me county amalgamations would bring an end to an identity.

I think where algamtions could work would be competition amalgamations. Say for instance Leitrim, Roscommon and Sligo with a small number of clubs each, could possibly have a league based club competition for the clubs, with the county championships held separately.

Carlow clubs play in a competition with Kilkenny clubs, and as far as I know Laois clubs are doing so at underage, and it's been a big positive for all involved.

Might be better than going down the county amalgamation route. The bonus would be more games for clubs, and possibly a higher chance of competitiveness. Also playing, and beating, teams from neighbouring counties adds a spice to games, might improve the overall quality of preparation, which ultimately benefit the county sides.

Stacksofwacks

The only way of leveling the playing field would be to break up the stronger counties- North/South/East/west kerry, Cork, Dublin etc. people from those areas would still follow their teams due to them being local. The GAA is all about being local, which is why ammalgamated teams work in other sports but not the GAA

StupidLikeAFox

I think the reason stronger teams are stronger is because of the structures they have in place, their backroom teams, centres of excellence etc. The GAA should be actively trying to get these structures in place as a standard in all counties to give the weaker counties a hand up, not try bring the stronger counties down.

It all costs money of course. In an ideal world you would have Leitrim and Longford operating with the same budget as Dublin and Kerry. Its hard to see that happening unless maybe we take a slice of the bigger counties budget and re-distribute it - can't see that going down to well or happening anytime soon!

CrabRevolution

If you started taking the money off the more financially successful counties, they'd probably put less effort into earning that money. Why would you push for a top sponsor if you knew the money is going to be taken from you anyway?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Offaly legend Tony McTague suggestted this a couple of years ago and then a poster called "I am Tony McTague" posted this classic on the uibhfhaili.com forum

http://www.uibhfhaili.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6493&hilit=mctague

Tony McTagues Road Map to a better All-Ireland Championship

Hello, I’m Tony McTague, clearly.

Right, lets get down to business.
I’m only here to try an improve the chances of the little man, ya know, the Leix’s, Westmeaths and Kildares of this world. God knows they’v bin starved of success for so long now. Share out the success, that’s what I say. Sure look at my own club Ferbane and the success we used have. I thought it a little unfair, so I decided to invent Shamrocks. Yea, that was my idea. Didn’t work out as planned, but sure there ya go. Cant win ‘em all (exactly my plan). A few years later I came up with the idea for Brosna Gaels, and St. Vincents too. Works in progress they are. Ham AND cheese toasties, yea, they were mine too.

Now, me plan might seem a little shnakey, as ya’ll see below. I’d like to see some of the stronger counties broke up a bih (Kerry & Cork), and some of the ones I don’t like too (Tipperary, I’m talking to you!).

But shur this is only wha I’m proposing. If yis have something yis want ta add, feel free to throw your opinion hat into the ring.

Offaleix –
As I mentioned before, this would be Offaly & Leix joining up. I smell an All-Ireland outta this team.

Justmeath –
Get rid of this West Meath, North Meath, South bleedin East Meath. Just one Meath will do…..Justmeath. Give them the Harps too ta be ****ed, coz I’m sick a lookin at them here in Offaleix. Will have to give Bettystown back to the Pale though, so all the lads outta Dublin Castle can take their hollyers without having to leave the Pale.

I’d like to see the Pale back again. Jaysus, we had some shcraps with them at minor. Used to be right ould craic.

The Pale (North Riding) –
A bih of a reduction on the old pale (only as far as Drawweda, plus Justmeath can keep Navan, coz it’s an absolute kip). A successful Pale North Riding is good for the GAA, as we all know

The Pale (South Riding) –
The Dublin mountain (foothills) will be returned to Wickla.
They’ll gain Naas too, and Leixlip, and Clane…..all those city towns.

Curragh –
The Curragh will gain most of historical Kildare’s land, but they will lose Kilcock to Justmeath (no real reason, I just felt like it), and Naas & Clane to Pale South Riding. But shur give them Blessington from Wickla, and as far as the roundabout at Tesco in Edenderry as consolation.

Carl Kenny –
This will result as a merger of Carlow & Kilkenny. A football powerhouse, they will not be.
It could be like yer man and yer other man who scored for Hartlepool the other day. Hartley & Poole. Ya couldn’t write that ****e. That’s why I’m going to try. All you budding Carl Kenny’s out there, here’s your chance to be famous.

Wickla –
They’ll get their mountains back and some of Wexford too. Unlikley to make them brilliant overnight though…..or ever.

New Breffni –
Longford, Cavan & South Leitrim. Ya wont get any more culchy than here.
These hoors need a hand though, that’s for sure.

Claregalway –
Clare & most of Galway will merge. They can base themselves out of Claregalway, for logistical purposes, or just for the craic like….

Shannon –
That long spermy looking thing on the map. I’m mostly in favour of keeping all those river dwelling folk together on one piece of land, preferably the piece just by the river. Always a bit suspicious of rivers. Ya wouldn’t know if they’re coming or going. Shannon would get all of Limerick city too, of course, to build all their Yurts an’ Egloo’s or whahever they do. Might be a bit of a shpin from Leitrim all the way to Limerick, but who doesn’t like a road trip, eh? It’d take in a few mile either side of the river all the way, so Offaleix would be losing the like of Shannonbridge & Banagher.

South Armagh –
They should have their own team. Basically it’ll just be Crossmaglen. They’re very clannish up there.
Their supporters are likely to bring the ‘Millwall’ or ‘Serbia’ touch to games. Don’t mess with them.

Oriel –
Was always a big fan of the history meself. Wouldn’t it be nice to bring back a nice old name like this. The remaining parts of Louth, mid-Armagh & all of Monaghan will form an updated version of an ancient territory.

Londonderry –
This will be involve an extension of County Derrys boundaries (the Inishowen peninsula from Donegal and North Tyrone) in an attempt to increase their chances of success, and hopefully popularise the game in the UK. The Londonderry name will be used to aid this process (in the same way as go-faster stripes do on a car). Anyway, London is so ‘in’ this season.
Note: the London team will be need to be disbanded though. Unhealthy competition.

Rathkeale Metropolitan Area –
An area for the traveller, who likes to kick a bih a ball at weekends. North Kerry & the majority of County Limerick.
No idea what ya’d call this place though. It’ll eventually resemble one giant halting site I imagine.
A massive urban sprawl coming outta Rathkeale. Away days in South Armagh might be nothing in comparison to here.

Danegal –
The Kingdom of the O’Donnells. In particular, Daniel, an old fave of mine. I’m a big fan of putting some of the old Kingdoms back on the map (…..and getting rid of one particular ‘Kingdom’ by slicing it into pieces). Londonderry will get the Inishowen peninsula from Danegal though. But they gain all of North Leitrim.

Southeast Rebellion –
Mick Wallace was onto me and he’s looking to get involved with my whole idea. He’s looking to buy in, see’s himself as a sorta Malcolm Glazer character. We could give him a Franchise, see how it goes. The possibility of moving this Franchise will be up for negotiation after a 5 year term. Will consist of some parts of East Waterford county, the city of Waterford itself and a large chunk of South Wexford. A new bridge will be constructed linking mainland Waterford directly with Wexford. Labour for this will be provided by out-of-work GAA players. John Mullane is currently at nohing I think.

Mid Kerry –
They’ll get to keep Tralee anyway. I don’t know if that’s good or bad.

Korky –
They’re likely to be a perennial contender. South Kerry & West Cork.

Connemara & the Islands –
If there’s one thing I’m more suspicious of than rivers, then its 1950’s folk. Don’t trust them. So what better way to ease your mind than to batch all them Connemara folk with all our Western Isles, especially Achill. Would include southwest Mayo too.

Greater Roscommon –
Roscommon as we know it, only with Ballaghadereen and a nice stretch of N5 included. Also some of South Shligo added.

New Mayo –
Including most of Shligo, but they wont feature in the name because everybody always forgets about Shligo.

Tipperary will be split into two by the river Suir. (Take that, yeez hooers!!!)

Tipperarea West –
All of Tipp west of the Suir (including the part of Limerick, located south-east of Limerick City) and some of North Waterford (north of the Blackwater).

Tipperarea East –
All of Tipp east of the Suir and most of mid-Waterford.

Blackwater –
I was always suspicious of rivers (cept for the peaceful Brosna). But they are good for dividing things though.
The old central part of Cork, including Cork City and East Cork. Will also include West Waterford.

North Cork –
To include a small portion of southeast Limerick and a corner of northwest Waterford. Might be more suited to the small ball in these parts.

Antrim & Ards –
This should boosht their pick for the hurley anyways.
They’ll get to keep half of Belfast. Good stretch of coast too, for poaching any potential Scots.

Non-Ards –
Down was always a silly name for a place anyway. They’ll get a good part of Belfast outta it too.
Obviously they’ll lose the Ards peninsula, but shur it was bound to break off at some point soon anyways.

Fermanagh & South Tyrone –
Loosely (and lazily) based on a political constituency. Halve up Tyrone anyway. That’ll halt them for a while. Give them Fermanagh too, shur that’s only one giant lake anyway, isn’t it?....


From this I think ya’d get a lot of teams capable of been very successful in the football championship..
Offaleix, Justmeath, Pale North Riding, Pale South Riding, Londonderry, Korky, Claregalway, etc.
Fair enough, there’d be some teams who’d be utter ****e like, Connemara & The Islands, both Tipperarea’s, North Cork, Shannon probably, not to mention my good friend Carl Kenny. But to be fair, nobody gives a monkeys about these places, especially Tipperarea. They might win something in the hurley maybe, but we’r not here to talk abou that.

Now, I’ve said my piece. That’s all that matters

Good day to yis

T Mac T

HighKing33

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

The only way of leveling the playing field would be to break up the stronger counties- North/South/East/west kerry, Cork, Dublin etc. people from those areas would still follow their teams due to them being local. The GAA is all about being local, which is why amalgamated teams work in other sports but not the GAA

Regional teams would still be local. That's the point of being regional. Cork is a regional team for example but geographically and culturally there are huge differences between east Cork, Cork city and west Cork, like football and hurling biases for example.

The All-Ireland championships were originally competed for only by clubs, until experimentation with regional teams based on county boundaries proved to be very popular with spectators. There's nothing to say that regional teams, like a rest-of-connaught hurling team wouldn't prove to be a big success if trialed. Such a team would certainly promote hurling in the west and improve the competitiveness of the championship. All good things in my opinion.

threeball

HighKing33 wrote: »

Regional teams would still be local. That's the point of being regional. Cork is a regional team for example but geographically and culturally there are huge differences between east Cork, Cork city and west Cork, like football and hurling biases for example.

The All-Ireland championships were originally competed for only by clubs, until experimentation with regional teams based on county boundaries proved to be very popular with spectators. There's nothing to say that regional teams, like a rest-of-connaught hurling team wouldn't prove to be a big success if trialed. Such a team would certainly promote hurling in the west and improve the competitiveness of the championship. All good things in my opinion.

This is my point exactly. Cork geographically is much larger than Sligo/Leitrim for example and with no significantly greater ties than the British deciding that Cork should cover that area. Theres probably more in common between the people of west cork and east Kerry than there is with people from east cork. Opposing supporting a team because they are made up of two geographically adjacent counties makes no sense especially when it will be without doubt more successful than a weaker county standing alone

Hibbeler

While I can understand the affection one might have for one's county I don't understand the whole idea of "oh I could never support a team with players from X neighbouring county". Why not? Sure they're your neighbours ffs and ours is but a small country. It seems small minded and parochial to me.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Hibbeler wrote: »

While I can understand the affection one might have for one's county I don't understand the whole idea of "oh I could never support a team with players from X neighbouring county". Why not? Sure they're your neighbours ffs and ours is but a small country. It seems small minded and parochial to me.

That kinda the whole point of the GAA.

He's a dirty player but he's our dirty player so he's alright.

threeball

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

That kinda the whole point of the GAA.

He's a dirty player but he's our dirty player so he's alright.

He wouldn't be long becoming your dirty player if that was the team you supported. Winning and being competitive is what matters when supporting a team at that level. GAA would still be local as ever its just that the intercounty pick would be expanded slighty. Am I supposed to feel more of an affinity to a player than is 80km away but in my county than to a player than is 5km away but in the neighbouring one?

Something certainly has to be done anyway as the whole thing is gone stale. We need new life and ideas on how the whole IC thing works as right now it only works for about 8 of 32 counties.

Dyr

I think you're trying to address problems that are caused more by county boards than limitations of the counties.

Maybe give the GAA the power to stage an intervention when it comes to dysfunction in the various county comitays

HighKing33

There are a couple of counties you could throw money and full-time coaches at with a view to improving performance levels across the grades - Wicklow and Louth spring to mind here.

But honestly, in football at least, no county with a population below 100k will win anything significant in my lifetime. That's just being realistic. Aidan O'Shea flew a kite this year with regard to regional teams and it got a mixed reaction, (mostly because he referred to them as "franchises" for some reason) but he made an excellent point when he referred to the example of Mount Leinster Rangers and the success they've enjoyed since amalgamation. That model can work at intercounty level. Like posters have stated, we need that fresh air and the extra competitiveness it will bring.

threeball

Bambi wrote: »

I think you're trying to address problems that are caused more by county boards than limitations of the counties.

Maybe give the GAA the power to stage an intervention when it comes to dysfunction in the various county comitays

Like High King says, there are a significant number of counties who on their own will never win anything significant but who if joined with a county that are a little stronger would be a decent addition to the championship every year and less of a drain on the entire system.

Just look at the list of counties who have no realistic ambitions any year in the GAA and ask yourself if its fair, Sligo, Leitrim, Longford, Louth, Carlow, Antrim, Offaly, Laois, Westmeath, Wicklow, Clare, Limerick, Waterford, (at least the final 3 have hurling).

That's a fair swathe of the country that has no chance at an all Ireland in the next 20yrs or more, at best a provincial title or two out of 13 counties. Wouldn't it be better for the association as a whole to have a competitive championship where everyone has a stake or the status quo where we're treated to the same old closed shop of 4 counties winning everything with an odd scrap thrown in here or there to 3-4 more and nothing for the rest.

I'm not even from a weak county and would have been lucky enough to see us win all Irelands in both codes but I don't think its fair that there are counties that will never experience that because of their geography or population or some other issue that will always be beyond their control.

Green_Tae

HighKing33 wrote: »

There are a couple of counties you could throw money and full-time coaches at with a view to improving performance levels across the grades - Wicklow and Louth spring to mind here.

But honestly, in football at least, no county with a population below 100k will win anything significant in my lifetime. That's just being realistic. Aidan O'Shea flew a kite this year with regard to regional teams and it got a mixed reaction, (mostly because he referred to them as "franchises" for some reason) but he made an excellent point when he referred to the example of Mount Leinster Rangers and the success they've enjoyed since amalgamation. That model can work at intercounty level. Like posters have stated, we need that fresh air and the extra competitiveness it will bring.

I love this dude

paul71

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Professional football would have a max of possibly 6 teams.

Dublin
Rest of Leinster
Ulster
Connacht
Kerry
Rest of Munster.

I can't see a market for much more.

Thing about the list you provide is that it is accurate for the number of teams but not the ones listed. Kerry has nowhere near the popul;ation required to support a professional team, it would more likely read as Cork and rest of munster.

Green_Tae

paul71 wrote: »

Thing about the list you provide is that it is accurate for the number of teams but not the ones listed. Kerry has nowhere near the popul;ation required to support a professional team, it would more likely read as Cork and rest of munster.

Woah, we're discussing the possibilities of fielding regional teams, not professionalism. That doesn't need to come into it.

paul71

Green Tae wrote: »

Woah, we're discussing the possibilities of fielding regional teams, not professionalism. That doesn't need to come into it.

Read the post I replied to.

Prop Joe

How about instead of amalgamating counties we just spilt Dublin/Kerry/Mayo into 2..And everyone will be at the same level then

BonnieSituation

Prop Joe wrote: »

How about instead of amalgamating counties we just spilt Dublin/Kerry/Mayo into 2..And everyone will be at the same level then

Will ye let Mayo win an AI first. They deserve it. :rolleyes:

Shurimgreat

I'd safely say a rest of Leinster selection still wouldn't beat Dublin. Likewise in Connacht and Mayo. The gap has grown too big. And no Carlow etc are not going to break the cycle anytime soon. The gap grows bigger with each pass year until eventually it becomes very lopsided, moreso than ever. The chances of upsets become fewer and fewer.

Prop Joe

The Championship is all about momentum,Mayo got a very lucky goal to beat Galway in the Connacht semi,If that hadn't gone in Galway could of had a big run in the championship,Same with Cork in the Munster Final.Meath also were very close to taking out Tyrone in the qualifiers.

I agree the Gaa needs to do more to make more teams all Ireland contenders but the gap is not as big as perceived & amalgamating counties is not the answer

CrabRevolution

Galway got beaten by about 10 points by Donegal after gaining a bit of momentum beating Armagh and Derry. Had they won Connacht and gotten the same draw as Mayo, they'd have played Donegal in the AI QF. What makes them any more likely to beat Donegal in that scenario?

threeball

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I'd safely say a rest of Leinster selection still wouldn't beat Dublin. Likewise in Connacht and Mayo. The gap has grown too big. And no Carlow etc are not going to break the cycle anytime soon. The gap grows bigger with each pass year until eventually it becomes very lopsided, moreso than ever. The chances of upsets become fewer and fewer.

Talk about over exaggerating the gap. Mayo are not so far ahead of Galway that another 3-4 players wouldn't tip the balance. Same with Kerry in relation to Cork. I'd wager that the best of Laois and Offaly would give Dublin a good game.

Its small things that make a big difference at senior IC and a few players from another county to shore up weaknesses in another can make a huge difference. Over the course of time a mixture of self belief and cycles within the strength of counties would result in a very competitive championship and league.

Green_Tae

paul71 wrote: »

Read the post I replied to.

Sorry, didn't see that.

I suppose my point applies to the poster you were quoting and there is this assumption among many supporters that regional teams automatically mean professionalism. I don't see why that has to be the case at all.

I feel very strongly about the issue for two main reasons:
i) We need a more competitive championship, that point has been reiterated by Ciaran Whelan numerous times over the past two years and he is dead right. Being realistic we'll struggle to compete with soccer and rugby going forward unless we can win the battle for hearts and minds.
ii) Every player deserves a fair shot at winning an All-Ireland medal, regardless of where they hail from. And that applies especially so when talented players commit to representing rural areas where the lure of migration (in sports terms - to other county teams or as is more likely, the AFL). This can be achieved with regional teams.