Question on crate traininghi

Andso

Hi all, some might remember that I posted a few weeks ago about buying a puppy. Well he's here and he is just adorable. But I do have a few questions re crate training. I'm not sure if we are lucky w our fella but he has had one 1 accident in the house since we got him. Remember he was kept in a shed before us. He is amazing , goes every time we take him out and so far so good. My problem is when I put him into crate for some alone time he goes crazy crying. I took him to vet the day after we got him for vaccinations and micro chipping and he told me pup will need time out from us w crate shut. I have 20 month old baby, who puppy adores and 2 other kids. It breaks my heart to hear him, and I feel guilty leaving him. Could we just have a puppy that wants us all the time? Does he need alone time or does it depend on individual?
He has never cried at night.

VonVix

My 4 month old is crate trained, had him since he was 9 weeks and only now am I starting to leave him alone in the crate for about an hour or so during the day. He had NEVER been left alone since we got him. I feel like allowing a puppy to cry because s/he is left alone could create some separation anxiety as the pup is rehearsing anxious behaviour whenever the owner leaves. My boy is great and sleeps the whole time we go.

Be aware of when you are leaving him alone. Has he had playtime/exercise beforehand? Has he already peed/pooped (depending on when he was last fed)? You don't want to put a puppy in a crate who not long ago woken up from a long nap and/or hasn't done their business in a few hours!

ShaShaBear

Andso wrote: »

Hi all, some might remember that I posted a few weeks ago about buying a puppy. Well he's here and he is just adorable. But I do have a few questions re crate training. I'm not sure if we are lucky w our fella but he has had one 1 accident in the house since we got him. Remember he was kept in a shed before us. He is amazing , goes every time we take him out and so far so good. My problem is when I put him into crate for some alone time he goes crazy crying. I took him to vet the day after we got him for vaccinations and micro chipping and he told me pup will need time out from us w crate shut. I have 20 month old baby, who puppy adores and 2 other kids. It breaks my heart to hear him, and I feel guilty leaving him. Could we just have a puppy that wants us all the time? Does he need alone time or does it depend on individual?
He has never cried at night.

Have you just been putting him into it or have you been introducing him slowly, ie throwing treats in and allowing him to have his feeds there and showing him that nice things happen?
Is there anything in the crate with a family member's scent on it? Is there any sort of light, even dimmed, in the room where he is put? It's possible at night he is tired and knows to sleep, but during the day he feels lonely, especially if he is used to being locked in a shed with his siblings.

Andso

I try to put him after playing with the kids to give him a break as a lot of people said he would need time out from us. And also for the kids to know he is not always available to them. He would always have a pee/poop done before going in. He would be in a separate room to us. Hate to hear him crying but I just want to do what is right for puppy

Andso

Yes, he gets treats to go in, I didn't realise it was meant to be closed so was open for awhile until vet told me it needed to be shut for pup to feel secure. I guess I'm confused as to what's best. I don't have anything with our scent but I do have toys in w him. The room has a window so not dark in there at all. He is a fab pup with a beautiful personality and I don't want to do anything that may upset him.

ShaShaBear

Andso wrote: »

Yes, he gets treats to go in, I didn't realise it was meant to be closed so was open for awhile until vet told me it needed to be shut for pup to feel secure. I guess I'm confused as to what's best. I don't have anything with our scent but I do have toys in w him. The room has a window so not dark in there at all. He is a fab pup with a beautiful personality and I don't want to do anything that may upset him.

It doesn't have to be closed for the pup to feel secure. The whole idea of the crate is that the pup feels secure in it in all situations. You are supposed to build up towards actually locking the door and then slowly build up the amount of time it is closed for.

Vets are not well known for their behavioural experience

DBB

Andso wrote: »

Yes, he gets treats to go in, I didn't realise it was meant to be closed so was open for awhile until vet told me it needed to be shut for pup to feel secure.

Argh! Beware the vet with NO behavioural training OP!
As has already been suggested, you must build up his time in the closed crate alone. Taking him away from all the fun, shutting him in the crate, and leaving him to cry is setting you up for troible later on!
So, let him play with the kids, By all means, intervene in the play to calm things down by simply distracting pup away from the mayhem, asking him to sit and giving him a little pet, before letting him back to the play... this helps the pup's emotional arousal to drop back down to manageable levels before he starts getting bitey or over-excited.

As for the crate... Get yourself a couple of large Kong Toys, and read up on yummy stuff to fill them with:
http://www.kongcompany.com/en-uk/recipes/
Also, arm yourself with a supply of yummy dried beef treats... lung, tripe, pizzle are all manageably chewable for a puppy, avoid scalp, lips and cheeks until he's a bit older as they're rather hard. http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_treats_chews/beef

Give pup a stuffed Kong/beef chew in his crate, and let him get stuck into it.
Close the door of the crate.
Stay in the room.
Let him out when he's finished the Kong/beef chew.

After a few sessions of him getting used to getting stuck into the Kong, wait until he's stuck in, then leave the room for a few moment.
Return without making a big deal.
When he's finished the Kong, or maybe a minute or two after he's finished it, let him out. No big deal... no big excitement, just open the door and let him out.

Now start to leave him in the closed crate a little longer before you return, and start to leave him in the crate a little longer whilst you're in the room with him.

You want to leave the room only when he's relaxed and/or distracted.

No need to have that crate in another room, you can bring it into the room you are all in and get him used to being shut into it whilst you're in the room. Again, whilst he's in it and quiet, leave the room for a sec, then return, and do this a LOT, until your leaving the room becomes a yawn-fest for him it's so boring!

It's all about teaching him to be secure in his solitude, and leaving him alone to cry it off is risky. It's a gradual process, but with a pup, once you've got the basics covered, progress tends to be very quick, in that you can start stretching the length of time you're out of the room pretty quickly once he's relaxed. But the key is to have him relaxed about it: otherwise he'll end up getting worried every time you stand up to leave the room, in which case your vet may have to start prescribing anti-anxiety medication!

Top tip OP: vets are great, they really are. But most of them have feck-all idea about behavioural training

boardbrowser

Great advice DBB as always.
You might mix it up and also try a little reverse psychology while using your appetising stuffed kong.
Step 1 -Place the kong in crate, let puppy see you do this.
Step 2- close crate door with prize on the inside and pup outside
Step 3- Wait for about 10 seconds till your puppy is gunning to get inside.
Step 4 -Open crate and wait till pup goes in then close crate but stay in the room.
Step 5-Wait 20-30 seconds while puppy hopefully is milling into kong.
Step 6- Open crate and call puppy out. Once your puppy is out, close crate and repeat steps 2-6 five times in succesion.
Step 7- repeat steps 2-5, lengthening the time that your puppy is in crate before you rain on his parade and call them out.