Michael Collins always on the television

Gatling

Riskymove wrote: »

Cathal Brugha's bird???

Harry boland moth rite

awec

Entertaining enough film but historically inaccurate and exaggerated. Fairly typical of a movie production of real life events really.

JustTheOne

Found it quite odd the brits arrested him in 1916 released him few years later but never had a clear picture of him.

He was the most wanted man at one time yet he openly walked around Dublin.

You would think when releasing him they would photograph him etc.

Also found it odd the Brits negotiated in England with him so easy knowing he was responsible for the murder of many of their men in Ireland especially the Cairo gang who were very high up with the authorities and government.

gizmo555

JustTheOne wrote: »

You would think when releasing him they would photograph him etc.

Also found it odd the Brits negotiated in England with him so easy knowing he was responsible for the murder of many of their men in Ireland especially the Cairo gang who were very high up with the authorities and government.

Professional courtesy - they were responsible for a great many more deaths themselves.

diomed

Some scenes were in streets near the Catholic church in Blackrock, Co Dublin.
I don't know why people get all excited about Collins. All I know about him was he stood up and got shot.

DarkyHughes

It's a pro Blueshirt film & the Blueshirts control the airwaves.

JustTheOne

DarkyHughes wrote: »

It's a pro Blueshirt film & the Blueshirts control the airwaves.

Just isn't enough facepalms for this post.

DarkyHughes

JustTheOne wrote: »

Found it quite odd the brits arrested him in 1916 released him few years later but never had a clear picture of him.

He was the most wanted man at one time yet he openly walked around Dublin.

You would think when releasing him they would photograph him etc.

Also found it odd the Brits negotiated in England with him so easy knowing he was responsible for the murder of many of their men in Ireland especially the Cairo gang who were very high up with the authorities and government.

Did you think they would negotiate on top of the North pole?

Nodin

DarkyHughes wrote: »

It's a pro Blueshirt film & the Blueshirts control the airwaves.

Bit harsh there. It's a good movie.

Paramite Pie

diomed wrote: »

Some scenes were in streets near the Catholic church in Blackrock, Co Dublin.
I don't know why people get all excited about Collins. All I know about him was he stood up and got shot.

Well if you know so little about him then you wouldn't know why people get excited about him -- would you?:P

Without him there would be no one to pick up the slack from De Valera's shambling mistakes and we would've lost the War of Independence. His specialty was Military Intelligence and he gave MI6 a run for their money. He also secured enough loans internationally to run an internationally unrecognised government.

He's also regarded as the Founding Father of Modern 20th century Guerilla Warfare -- at least according to History.net. While not everyone used these tactics for the betterment of mankind that still makes him very influential globally. Lenin and Mao are the most famous posthumous students of Collins -- which would probably make him turn in his grave.

Even Churchill respected him -- something he didn't have for the rest of the first Dail.

BattleCorp

Michael Collins - isn't he the pikey actor from Glenroe and anything else that they need a pikey for? Didn't know he was such a big player in 1916.

Agent Smith

JustTheOne wrote: »

Just isn't enough facepalms for this post.

Tbh

philstar

biko wrote: »

Without Michael Collins we'd all be speaking British still.

and shopping in Tesco and watching BBC and reading Brit papers....oh hold on

The_Valeyard

tomwaterford wrote: »

I hear there making a new version :eek:

Better have Liam Neeson.


Although Brendan Gleesons 'The Treaty' is well worth a watch.

DarkyHughes

Nodin wrote: »

Bit harsh there. It's a good movie.

Yeah but it's clearly a propaganda piece for the pro-treaty view. It portrays the IRA in the Civil War as mindless hooligans who deserved everything that happened to them. And I was never a big fan of Dev but the movie portrays him very unfairly as a sniveling per-Madonna who had no leadership skills at all . It's clear Neil Jordan is a FG man that's for sure.

I thought it was a good movie the first few times I seen it but the more I see it I think it's average at best. Like one example the 1916 Rising is confined to the GPO in the movie giving it the feeling of the Rising being much smaller than it actually was & I don't remember Dev or Countess Markievicz being in the GPO for the surrender but sure what ya gonna do?

Nodin

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Yeah but it's clearly a propaganda piece for the pro-treaty view. It portrays the IRA in the Civil War as mindless hooligans who deserved everything that happened to them. And I was never a big fan of Dev but the movie portrays him very unfairly as a sniveling per-Madonna who had no leadership skills at all . It's clear Neil Jordan is a FG man that's for sure.

I thought it was a good movie the first few times I seen it but the more I see it I think it's average at best. Like one example the 1916 Rising is confined to the GPO in the movie giving it the feeling of the Rising being much smaller than it actually was & I don't remember Dev or Countess Markievicz being in the GPO for the surrender but sure what ya gonna do?

But it's fairly unapologetic about putting the Brits out and the way it was done.

Arytonblue

I just can't wait until Alan Rickman begrudgingly stumbles onto the Late Late and good ol' fogey Turbo Tubs completely bypasses the man's entire career in order to get to the real juicy burning question every household in Ireland wants to hear answered......

.........what was it like playing Dev?????

fryup

half of it is a work of fiction....

there were no car bombs, the british army didn't use a an armoured car at croke park and ned broy wasn't killed he lived to a ripe old age

FloatingVoter

JustTheOne wrote: »

Found it quite odd the brits arrested him in 1916 released him few years later but never had a clear picture of him.

He was the most wanted man at one time yet he openly walked around Dublin.

You would think when releasing him they would photograph him etc.

Also found it odd the Brits negotiated in England with him so easy knowing he was responsible for the murder of many of their men in Ireland especially the Cairo gang who were very high up with the authorities and government.

They probably did have a mugshot of some GPO footsoldier somewhere in the archives. They had no photo of the mastermind behind the guerrilla war against them. And while they were searching under hedgerows, a pint beside a nice warm fire is your only man for the eavesdropping.
Did he play both sides ? Stalin did with the Cheka. I'm sure Collins used squealers and squealing to his advantage as well.
There was a private plane ready for immediate take off if things went awry at the Downing Street negotiations. Those negotiations took place within full glare of the world media so sticking a bag on his head and shooting him would not have played well. Even today, I'm not 100% sure if the Brits then were 100% sure that the M.Collins at the negotiating table was the "terrorist mastermind" of fame and legend.

JustTheOne

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Did you think they would negotiate on top of the North pole?

That's not what I meant.

But you are aware many treaties throughout history have been negotiated in neutral countries?

DarkyHughes

JustTheOne wrote: »

That's not what I meant.

But you are aware many treaties throughout history have been negotiated in neutral countries?

Yeah well the Brits didn't see as a negotiating between between two different countries. They seen it as a domestic issue in their own country.

DarkyHughes

Nodin wrote: »

But it's fairly unapologetic about putting the Brits out and the way it was done.

Suppose, Ken Loachs film does that a lot better.

I also think Neil Jordan took the idea of the Dail having to go "underground" a little to literal. Are they meeting in a sewer?

Nodin

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Suppose, Ken Loachs film does that a lot better.

I also think Neil Jordan took the idea of the Dail having to go "underground" a little to literal. Are they meeting in a sewer?

It may have been a metaphorical dig at their modern day successors.

Robsweezie

its all a conspiracy joe !

DanielODonnell

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

So it's been on twice.

plus it was on BBC one recently too

DanielODonnell

DarkyHughes

Nodin wrote: »

It may have been a metaphorical dig at their modern day successors.

Prehaps but I doubt it.

I hate Jordan's hero worship of Collins. There's a scene of Collins organizing a flying colunm when he never took part in battle or commanded a flying column. And the best Generals in the field like Tom Barry, Sean Hogan, Sean Mac Eoin, Sean O Hegarty, Sean Moylan etc.. are lucky if their barely given a mention. And maybe the most important men in terms of winning sympathy for the Irish case Terrence McSweeny & Kevin Barry aren't mentioned at all even tho Collins had drawn up plans to try & rescue Barry.

byhookorbycrook

Our local GAA club were involved in the "Croke Park scene. There was a "premier" in Carlow where they all dressed up in tuxes etc. Great craic.

Nodin

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Prehaps but I doubt it.

I hate Jordan's hero worship of Collins. There's a scene of Collins organizing a flying colunm when he never took part in battle or commanded a flying column. And the best Generals in the field like Tom Barry, Sean Hogan, Sean Mac Eoin, Sean O Hegarty, Sean Moylan etc.. are lucky if their barely given a mention. And maybe the most important men in terms of winning sympathy for the Irish case Terrence McSweeny & Kevin Barry aren't mentioned at all even tho Collins had drawn up plans to try & rescue Barry.

It's a Hollywood movie. It's a miracle they didn't credit the whole thing to an unknown square jawed American volunteer and flim it in Bruge.

padd b1975

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Our local GAA club were involved in the "Croke Park scene. There was a "premier" in Carlow where they all dressed up in tuxes etc. Great craic.

I think that was filmed at the Carlisle Grounds in Bray, was it not?

Menas

padd b1975 wrote: »

I think that was filmed at the Carlisle Grounds in Bray, was it not?

Thats correct.

tuisginideach

padd b1975 wrote: »

I think that was filmed at the Carlisle Grounds in Bray, was it not?

Yes I was there - one of the crowd.

I did tell Neil Jordan & Co that Tiobraid Árann was spelt incorrectly on the scoreboard but they said it wouldn't be seen anyway!