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Michael Collins always on the television

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Riskymove wrote: »
    Cathal Brugha's bird???

    Harry boland moth rite


  • Administrators Posts: 54,899 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Entertaining enough film but historically inaccurate and exaggerated. Fairly typical of a movie production of real life events really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    Found it quite odd the brits arrested him in 1916 released him few years later but never had a clear picture of him.

    He was the most wanted man at one time yet he openly walked around Dublin.

    You would think when releasing him they would photograph him etc.

    Also found it odd the Brits negotiated in England with him so easy knowing he was responsible for the murder of many of their men in Ireland especially the Cairo gang who were very high up with the authorities and government.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    You would think when releasing him they would photograph him etc.

    Also found it odd the Brits negotiated in England with him so easy knowing he was responsible for the murder of many of their men in Ireland especially the Cairo gang who were very high up with the authorities and government.

    Professional courtesy - they were responsible for a great many more deaths themselves.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Some scenes were in streets near the Catholic church in Blackrock, Co Dublin.
    I don't know why people get all excited about Collins. All I know about him was he stood up and got shot.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    It's a pro Blueshirt film & the Blueshirts control the airwaves.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    It's a pro Blueshirt film & the Blueshirts control the airwaves.

    Just isn't enough facepalms for this post.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    Found it quite odd the brits arrested him in 1916 released him few years later but never had a clear picture of him.

    He was the most wanted man at one time yet he openly walked around Dublin.

    You would think when releasing him they would photograph him etc.

    Also found it odd the Brits negotiated in England with him so easy knowing he was responsible for the murder of many of their men in Ireland especially the Cairo gang who were very high up with the authorities and government.

    Did you think they would negotiate on top of the North pole?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    It's a pro Blueshirt film & the Blueshirts control the airwaves.

    Bit harsh there. It's a good movie.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    diomed wrote: »
    Some scenes were in streets near the Catholic church in Blackrock, Co Dublin.
    I don't know why people get all excited about Collins. All I know about him was he stood up and got shot.

    Well if you know so little about him then you wouldn't know why people get excited about him -- would you?:P

    Without him there would be no one to pick up the slack from De Valera's shambling mistakes and we would've lost the War of Independence. His specialty was Military Intelligence and he gave MI6 a run for their money. He also secured enough loans internationally to run an internationally unrecognised government.

    He's also regarded as the Founding Father of Modern 20th century Guerilla Warfare -- at least according to History.net. While not everyone used these tactics for the betterment of mankind that still makes him very influential globally. Lenin and Mao are the most famous posthumous students of Collins -- which would probably make him turn in his grave.

    Even Churchill respected him -- something he didn't have for the rest of the first Dail.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,804 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Michael Collins - isn't he the pikey actor from Glenroe and anything else that they need a pikey for? Didn't know he was such a big player in 1916.


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    Just isn't enough facepalms for this post.

    Tbh


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭philstar


    biko wrote: »
    Without Michael Collins we'd all be speaking British still.

    and shopping in Tesco and watching BBC and reading Brit papers....oh hold on


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    I hear there making a new version :eek:


    Better have Liam Neeson.


    Although Brendan Gleesons 'The Treaty' is well worth a watch.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Nodin wrote: »
    Bit harsh there. It's a good movie.

    Yeah but it's clearly a propaganda piece for the pro-treaty view. It portrays the IRA in the Civil War as mindless hooligans who deserved everything that happened to them. And I was never a big fan of Dev but the movie portrays him very unfairly as a sniveling per-Madonna who had no leadership skills at all . It's clear Neil Jordan is a FG man that's for sure.

    I thought it was a good movie the first few times I seen it but the more I see it I think it's average at best. Like one example the 1916 Rising is confined to the GPO in the movie giving it the feeling of the Rising being much smaller than it actually was & I don't remember Dev or Countess Markievicz being in the GPO for the surrender but sure what ya gonna do?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Yeah but it's clearly a propaganda piece for the pro-treaty view. It portrays the IRA in the Civil War as mindless hooligans who deserved everything that happened to them. And I was never a big fan of Dev but the movie portrays him very unfairly as a sniveling per-Madonna who had no leadership skills at all . It's clear Neil Jordan is a FG man that's for sure.

    I thought it was a good movie the first few times I seen it but the more I see it I think it's average at best. Like one example the 1916 Rising is confined to the GPO in the movie giving it the feeling of the Rising being much smaller than it actually was & I don't remember Dev or Countess Markievicz being in the GPO for the surrender but sure what ya gonna do?

    But it's fairly unapologetic about putting the Brits out and the way it was done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 108 ✭✭Arytonblue


    I just can't wait until Alan Rickman begrudgingly stumbles onto the Late Late and good ol' fogey Turbo Tubs completely bypasses the man's entire career in order to get to the real juicy burning question every household in Ireland wants to hear answered......

    .........what was it like playing Dev?????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    half of it is a work of fiction....

    there were no car bombs, the british army didn't use a an armoured car at croke park and ned broy wasn't killed he lived to a ripe old age


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭FloatingVoter


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    Found it quite odd the brits arrested him in 1916 released him few years later but never had a clear picture of him.

    He was the most wanted man at one time yet he openly walked around Dublin.

    You would think when releasing him they would photograph him etc.

    Also found it odd the Brits negotiated in England with him so easy knowing he was responsible for the murder of many of their men in Ireland especially the Cairo gang who were very high up with the authorities and government.

    They probably did have a mugshot of some GPO footsoldier somewhere in the archives. They had no photo of the mastermind behind the guerrilla war against them. And while they were searching under hedgerows, a pint beside a nice warm fire is your only man for the eavesdropping.
    Did he play both sides ? Stalin did with the Cheka. I'm sure Collins used squealers and squealing to his advantage as well.
    There was a private plane ready for immediate take off if things went awry at the Downing Street negotiations. Those negotiations took place within full glare of the world media so sticking a bag on his head and shooting him would not have played well. Even today, I'm not 100% sure if the Brits then were 100% sure that the M.Collins at the negotiating table was the "terrorist mastermind" of fame and legend.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    Did you think they would negotiate on top of the North pole?

    That's not what I meant.

    But you are aware many treaties throughout history have been negotiated in neutral countries?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    That's not what I meant.

    But you are aware many treaties throughout history have been negotiated in neutral countries?

    Yeah well the Brits didn't see as a negotiating between between two different countries. They seen it as a domestic issue in their own country.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Nodin wrote: »
    But it's fairly unapologetic about putting the Brits out and the way it was done.

    Suppose, Ken Loachs film does that a lot better.

    I also think Neil Jordan took the idea of the Dail having to go "underground" a little to literal. Are they meeting in a sewer?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Suppose, Ken Loachs film does that a lot better.

    I also think Neil Jordan took the idea of the Dail having to go "underground" a little to literal. Are they meeting in a sewer?

    It may have been a metaphorical dig at their modern day successors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Robsweezie


    its all a conspiracy joe !


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 652 ✭✭✭DanielODonnell


    So it's been on twice.

    plus it was on BBC one recently too


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 652 ✭✭✭DanielODonnell




  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Nodin wrote: »
    It may have been a metaphorical dig at their modern day successors.

    Prehaps but I doubt it.

    I hate Jordan's hero worship of Collins. There's a scene of Collins organizing a flying colunm when he never took part in battle or commanded a flying column. And the best Generals in the field like Tom Barry, Sean Hogan, Sean Mac Eoin, Sean O Hegarty, Sean Moylan etc.. are lucky if their barely given a mention. And maybe the most important men in terms of winning sympathy for the Irish case Terrence McSweeny & Kevin Barry aren't mentioned at all even tho Collins had drawn up plans to try & rescue Barry.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Our local GAA club were involved in the "Croke Park scene. There was a "premier" in Carlow where they all dressed up in tuxes etc. Great craic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Prehaps but I doubt it.

    I hate Jordan's hero worship of Collins. There's a scene of Collins organizing a flying colunm when he never took part in battle or commanded a flying column. And the best Generals in the field like Tom Barry, Sean Hogan, Sean Mac Eoin, Sean O Hegarty, Sean Moylan etc.. are lucky if their barely given a mention. And maybe the most important men in terms of winning sympathy for the Irish case Terrence McSweeny & Kevin Barry aren't mentioned at all even tho Collins had drawn up plans to try & rescue Barry.


    It's a Hollywood movie. It's a miracle they didn't credit the whole thing to an unknown square jawed American volunteer and flim it in Bruge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,848 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Our local GAA club were involved in the "Croke Park scene. There was a "premier" in Carlow where they all dressed up in tuxes etc. Great craic.

    I think that was filmed at the Carlisle Grounds in Bray, was it not?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I think that was filmed at the Carlisle Grounds in Bray, was it not?

    Thats correct.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭tuisginideach


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I think that was filmed at the Carlisle Grounds in Bray, was it not?

    Yes I was there - one of the crowd.

    I did tell Neil Jordan & Co that Tiobraid Árann was spelt incorrectly on the scoreboard :) but they said it wouldn't be seen anyway!


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