IM Mallorca 2015

shotgunmcos

4th place at the Olympics gets a rolldown bronze..
The first place finisher already has his slot so it rolls down..
A DSQ based on a later review creates a rolldown slot...

QF for anything is meeting the criteria or rules of the game/event etc..

If your goal was to go to Kona and a place became available which you subsequently turn down because you have an issue with the rules that afforded you a slot, what was your goal again?

Maybe you get an actual slot but your own rule is "if I get a slot it has to be a sub 9 slot at that..."
Exact whatever standards you want on yourself but your argument that you have no right to be there if you didn't QF from the first draft is silly IMO

A rolldown qualification is still qualifying by the event rules.

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

4th place at the Olympics gets a rolldown bronze..
The first place finisher already has his slot so it rolls down..
A DSQ based on a later review creates a rolldown slot...

QF for anything is meeting the criteria or rules of the game/event etc..

If your goal was to go to Kona and a place became available which you subsequently turn down because you have an issue with the rules that afforded you a slot, what was your goal again?

Maybe you get an actual slot but your own rule is "if I get a slot it has to be a sub 9 slot at that..."
Exact whatever standards you want on yourself but your argument that you have no right to be there if you didn't QF from the first draft is silly IMO

A rolldown qualification is still qualifying by the event rules.

Hey, set the bar whatever height you want. Just don't expect everyone to get excited when you clear it.

RJM85

tunney wrote: »

Hey, set the bar whatever height you want. Just don't expect everyone to get excited when you clear it.

Alternatively, you can set the bar at an arbitrarily higher point for no reason other than to feel smug.

It's one thing to have your own personal standard for whatever reason you want. It's another to tell someone they don't deserve what they have achieved because they haven't met your own personal standard.

bryangiggsy

tunney wrote: »

Hey, set the bar whatever height you want. Just don't expect everyone to get excited when you clear it.

Dont you mean yourself Dave.

The problem is you set the bar so high Dave maybe you dont want anyone to clear it.


In my opinion in that age group anyone who can go sub 9.30 deserves respect (ex Barcelona & Florida) and if a slot comes his way deserves it.

speedyj

shotgunmcos wrote: »

A rolldown qualification is still qualifying by the event rules.

This.

Saying anything else is like telling All-Ireland winners who come through the qualifiers that they didn't really win the prize. Well you can say it but no-one will listen..

triboy

tunney wrote: »

But in your Age group no lesser triathlete qualified.

Lol - top class response

zico10

tunney wrote: »

Have I turned down one? No
Would I? Yes, 100% and I've always said the same

To be honest, your assertion would carry far more weight if if you had actually been offered a roll down and turned it down. Actions speak louder than words and all that.

I don't want to just go to Kona I want to belong in Kona.

Likewise, that's why I'd never enter the lottery.

But in your Age group no lesser triathlete qualified.

I don't think it's fair to make this thread about me, but you are. So I'll go ahead and defend myself and I don't care how it comes across. I've obviously no choice, but I accept the rules Ironman have in place for WC qualification. And I hope anybody who has actually talked to me about missing out, would testify that I've accepted what happened with good grace.

You're right of course, on the day no other lesser triathlete in my AG qualified ahead of me, but you've implied in other threads here that you think age groups are a nonsense. It might suit my argument to say it now, but I would have said the same thing before. I don't see why any distinction should be made between a 24 year old, a 34 year old, or a 44 year old. There should only be three age groups in triathlon, junior, senior and vets. I don't see how winning an arbitrary age group can mean anything if 10 other guys are ahead of you.

What other sport hands out rewards based on 5 year age bands? Age groups exist simply to increase revenue for the WTC.

There were 37 WC slots available for men on Sunday. Excluding pros, I finished 18th. I think I'm fully entitled to believe my performance deserved a slot. It's not sour grapes, the slots simply aren't allocated on a fair basis.

Does any one have a right to say you don't deserve it?
You feel strongly a roll down is a valid way to get to Kona and you feel that no one has a right to say you don't deserve it.
I feel strongly that a roll down is not a valid way to get to kona and I feel that no one has a right to claim they do deserve to go on a roll down.

I don't actually feel that strongly about it. There are plenty of things I do feel strongly about, but it's often better to keep such opinions to yourself.
I was wrong when I said you didn't have the right to say whatever it is you want. It's a free country and you can say whatever you want, but I think you're just saying it in this instance to get a reaction.

I have had this argument with two of my best friends who went to Kona on roll downs. After a few drinks "but you didn't actually qualify so should you be going?" doesn't go down great.

I can't imagine it would, but it's Dave Tunney and not Dave Scott saying it to them either. If I were them, I'd turn around and ask 'What's your IM pb?' That should put you back in your box.

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Dont you mean yourself Dave.

The problem is you set the bar so high Dave maybe you dont want anyone to clear it.


In my opinion in that age group anyone who can go sub 9.30 deserves respect (ex Barcelona & Florida) and if a slot comes his way deserves it.

McCrystal will smash the bar on Sunday (baring acts of God etc)

Did I say sub 9.30 does not deserve respect? No. Huge huge respect for the time, no bones about it, particularly the run.

speedyj wrote: »

This.

Saying anything else is like telling All-Ireland winners who come through the qualifiers that they didn't really win the prize. Well you can say it but no-one will listen..

Ah but sometimes the qualifers is the better way to go through - more match practice. Ideally I'd like to see a champions league approach in the GAA but thats a different conversation.

zico10

tunney wrote: »

Did I say sub 9.30 does not deserve respect? No. Huge huge respect for the time, no bones about it, particularly the run.

Thanks, this nearly brought a tear to my eye.

Oryx

tunney wrote: »

McCrystal will smash the bar on Sunday (baring acts of God etc)

Did I say sub 9.30 does not deserve respect? No. Huge huge respect for the time, no bones about it, particularly the run.

Nice to see your bike skills include backpedalling.

In every race anyone ever does, your placing depends on who turns up on the day, who falls off, who punctures, everything. Do you think the female winner in Majorca would think her win undeserved because another contender happened to puncture? No. A win is a win, and a slot is a slot.

Now this whole picture changes if your rolldown is extreme, and your time far off the rest of your ag. But realisitically that doesnt happen much. Zico came 18th male overall. I agree his lack of a slot is a bitter pill, but to say he shouldnt have taken a rolldown if it came, is nothing short of ludicrous.

tunney

Oryx wrote: »

Nice to see your bike skills include backpedalling.

Do show one example of where I attacked the performance.

Roll downs, yes. The performance, no.

Oryx

tunney wrote: »

Do show one example of where I attacked the performance.

Roll downs, yes. The performance, no.

One hand giveth, the other taketh away.

By applying your own arbitrary 'no rolldown' rule you were, by default, saying he was not good enough. And saying that not just him, everyone, anyone, who misses out by 10 seconds, or 1, is not good enough to go to Kona.

Im inclined to agree to a degree, that if you are well out of the running and somehow manage to luck your way into a 35th place rolldown by some crazy accident, then maybe you should consider not going, because it is a championship, and maybe youre not championship material. But that did not happen in this case.

emmk

back to page 2 before ye started insulted each other on a cellular level
Wetsuit No Wetsuit.

I have raced 4 ironman events 2 wetsuit 2 non wetsuit. No.4 Vichy at 23.7dg was probably over 24dg I had to flush water down my suit more than twice just to cool down a little. Should of been a non wetsuit swim. Running in 37dg not fun either. But in Mallorca last year I was cold from the swim getting on to the bike. From the non wetsuit swim. I think zico10 might agree. But still would of preferred that to over heating from the getgo.
Austria was a non wetsuit the year I did it and over 200 people were a no show for the swim due to that fact.

Waves
Wave starts are better. Cuts down on some of the carnage and ultimately leads to less drafting on the bike. With AWA and strong athletes racing in the first amateur wave. If someone from a later wave passes you on the bike they are moving. Vichy was the least amount of drafting I have seen in any ironman or race...

Roll Downs and slotts.
I think the fields in late ironman races are stronger than most others where athletes get 13 months before they travel to Kona.
I finished 72seconds away from a slot last year 7th in my AG. 50th overall. This year 12th in my AG and 24th Overall, might have been 4min away from a slot.
You should be strong enough to qualify what ever the race!!! With LESS than 0.01% time difference over 9hrs. Something very small has to go your way or not. Someone racing UK, Sweden or Denmark having to front the funds and get the time to travel for October might not have the luxury of time or funds. So there are roll downs. There will be no roll downs in late races. I would take one gladly.
Totally agree Lesser athletes have gotten to Kona I totally smoked that 70yr old
Better Athletes have went and totally blown up.
But it is the Luck of the Draw who enters the race.

Racing to your strengths all low 9hr athletes are quick I just need more of them to have a bad day by less than 0.01%.
Sorry to read you missed the slot Zinco.

Dory Dory

Perhaps sleeveless wetsuits should be considered when it's on the warm end of wetsuit legal.

couerdelion

I swam non-wetsuit the day before the race and thought it was cool enough - definitely felt cooler than the half in May.

During the race I never felt I was overheating on the swim (the bike and run are different stories!).

Unlucky Zico. Great performance and a real shame you missed out on KQ.

pgibbo

How did you get on courdelion? Was that your first IM? Hope it went well.

couerdelion

pgibbo wrote: »

How did you get on courdelion? Was that your first IM? Hope it went well.

Yeah first Ironman, didn't go great.

Swim was better than I expected - out in 1:09

Cycle was going well till I overheated and started being sick. I'd held back on the first half knowing that the mountain was still to come but I just couldn't take any calories in on the second half of the bike. Even sports drinks were coming straight back up and I had to pull in to be sick 3/4 times - 6:16

Run wasnt pretty. After deciding not to pull out and try to complete at least a km I walked out of transition and after pulling myself together I ran the first of 4.5 laps. Still struggling with the heat so second lap was run walk and then the wheels completely fell off. Feet had got wet and blistered badly so a long slow walk to the finish - 6:27 and a 14:08 total

Still struggling to walk today with blisters although they are slowly starting to heal.

Pmaldini

couerdelion wrote: »

Yeah first Ironman, didn't go great.

Swim was better than I expected - out in 1:09

Cycle was going well till I overheated and started being sick. I'd held back on the first half knowing that the mountain was still to come but I just couldn't take any calories in on the second half of the bike. Even sports drinks were coming straight back up and I had to pull in to be sick 3/4 times - 6:16

Run wasnt pretty. After deciding not to pull out and try to complete at least a km I walked out of transition and after pulling myself together I ran the first of 4.5 laps. Still struggling with the heat so second lap was run walk and then the wheels completely fell off. Feet had got wet and blistered badly so a long slow walk to the finish - 6:27 and a 14:08 total

Still struggling to walk today with blisters although they are slowly starting to heal.

shows great courage and mental strength to keep going when you are really suffering, it will stand to you for your next IM, and soak those feet in warm water with a few drops of teatree oil:-)