Primary schools to get Tricolour for 1916 centenary

Dyr

I still think we should replace the tricolour with the fenian harp, we'd be the only country with a pair of tits on our national flag then

(someone will post a national flag with diddies on it now)

RobertKK

Nodin wrote: »

True. I have to take that up with JC next time we go for a few jars.

From what I read he will be very busy when it is time for the second coming.

Gatling

Bambi wrote: »

we'd be the only country with a pair of tits on our national flag then

(someone will post a national flag with diddies on it now)

Boobies

asherbassad

Boring username wrote: »

Indeed we should, and we should start with those uneducated dregs that deface our national flag on sporting occasions and cheap package holidays.

FFS it's a flag.....a piece of cloth, not the damn Mona Lisa.

Dardania

riffmongous wrote: »

And quite fittingly, resurrection

the value of compromise, and nurturing a positive neighbourly relationship?

Sheep Lover

I'll be out rocking my 90s Celtic jersey, can of Dutch in hand and singing drunk in a vague hum of the national anthem while the hoist the flag at the local school

corner of hells

Sheep Lover wrote: »

I'll be out rocking my 90s Celtic jersey, can of Dutch in hand and singing drunk in a vague hum of the national anthem while the hoist the flag at the local school

So will I , i'll probably have a tear in my eye too at the cost of school books.

Nodin

Sheep Lover wrote: »

I'll be out rocking my 90s Celtic jersey, can of Dutch in hand and singing drunk in a vague hum of the national anthem while the hoist the flag at the local school

What about the barring order?

Sheep Lover

Nodin wrote: »

What about the barring order?

I'll be on official Republican business, I get a pass.

Jimoslimos

recipio wrote: »

When I was in primary school, back in the Jurassic era, the teachers could not bring themselves to say 'green, white and orange' so it became 'green,white and gold'. It was a fudge, just as the foundation of the State was a fudge. It has become that cliche - a flag of convenience. When it comes to celebrating 1916 include me out.

Green, White and Gold flows off the tongue easier than Orange. More poetic too, since nothing rhymes with orange! I guess perhaps the early flags veered towards the yellow end of the spectrum to distinguish them from the green, white and red of Italy.

No problem with them sticking the flag up in schools but let's leave out the whole "pledging allegiance to the flag" bs. I kinda like the way we generally don't get hung up on the finer points of flag etiquette.

seamus

A ceremony at every primary school? What a fncking waste of money.

Get some nice fancy boxes done up, stick in a flag, a framed proclamation and a reeling in the years boxset and post it out to them.

No need for this ceremonial nonsense.

Streetwalker

Most Irish people are weird about their flag. I know one family who where renting a house in an estate and had the Tricolour on a pole and the landlord told them they couldn't have it as he didn't agree to the steel pole in the garden. They then removed the pole and was placed in one of those half whiskey barrels instead of in the grass and the landlord again asked them to remove it as it brought down the tone of the neighbourhood I sh it you not. They refused and the flag was robbed from the front garden twice in the space of a month until they gave in. The guy worked in a main car dealership and the wife was a nurse ffs these weren't some sinister republicans.

I hope for 1916 we see a rise in the amount of people proud to fly the Tricolour outside their house and the flag remains after the year is out.

kneemos

Streetwalker wrote: »

Most Irish people are weird about their flag. I know one family who where renting a house in an estate and had the Tricolour on a pole and the landlord told them they couldn't have it as he didn't agree to the steel pole in the garden. They then removed the pole and was placed in one of those half whiskey barrels instead of in the grass and the landlord again asked them to remove it as it brought down the tone of the neighbourhood I sh it you not. They refused and the flag was robbed from the front garden twice in the space of a month until they gave in. The guy worked in a main car dealership and the wife was a nurse ffs these weren't some sinister republicans.

I hope for 1916 we see a rise in the amount of people proud to fly the Tricolour outside their house and the flag remains after the year is out.

Houses aren't the place for flags.It has sinister conortations in every country.

Dyr

seamus wrote: »

A ceremony at every primary school? What a fncking waste of money.

Get some nice fancy boxes done up, stick in a flag, a framed proclamation and a reeling in the years boxset and post it out to them.

No need for this ceremonial nonsense.

In fairness FG have a grá for going for the big american style military production so beloved of the Bush Family

riffmongous

seamus wrote: »

A ceremony at every primary school? What a fncking waste of money.

Get some nice fancy boxes done up, stick in a flag, a framed proclamation and a reeling in the years boxset and post it out to them.

No need for this ceremonial nonsense.

As long as the cost isn't huge I think it could be worth it as it'll be a good memory for the childer, I used to love anything that broke the monotony of school when I was young.

And sure the army lads and teachers are being paid anyway so maybe it wont be too expensive?

Gatling

Strangely enough we were in Denmark of 3 week during the summer and every house had a backgarden flag pole flying a skinny danish flag not a full sized one but more what you might see on a boat or battlement .
Most of the family's we spent time with were suprised we don't have similar here

Gatling

seamus wrote: »

A ceremony at every primary school? What a fncking waste of money.

Get some nice fancy boxes done up, stick in a flag, a framed proclamation and a reeling in the years boxset and post it out to them.

No need for this ceremonial nonsense.

It's a 30 minute ceremony where a a student,parent,teacher is appointed offical carer of the flag. (Thought how to fold and raise and lower )
The soldiers will present a high quality copy of the proclamation too.

Hardly a major expense

jungleman

Inevitably, the build up to the 1916 Commemoration will just turn into a willy measuring contest between the political parties. The thoughts of Enda with that phony smile plastered across his face, pretending that he actually cares about 1916 makes me want to chunder.

As far as the school ceremonies go, I think it's a pretty good idea. If it teaches a few kids a little history, and makes them think about the sacrifices that many people faced in gaining independence, I can't see how it's a bad thing.

kneemos

Gatling wrote: »

Strangely enough we were in Denmark of 3 week during the summer and every house had a backgarden flag pole flying a skinny danish flag not a full sized one but more what you might see on a boat or battlement .
Most of the family's we spent time with were suprised we don't have similar here

Hope you put em right?

RobertKK

Maybe Irish people see themselves as being more than a flag, when it comes to who they are.

custard gannet

kneemos wrote: »

We used to have one in primary school . We'd line up in rows and sing the anthem as it was being raised.
.

Given it's mumbling and miming from sports stars and crowds in general it is baffling how the vast majority of us seemingly never learned the national anthem. God knows that while few of us left school able to hold a conversation in Irish, most people left with the drummed in ability to say three or four different prayers and ask how to go to the toilet.

While the mists of time and the lack of any chance to use them have faded my memory of the prayers I'm sure most of us would still know the anthem f they ever bothered teaching us.

Gatling

kneemos wrote: »

Hope you put em right?

Oh yeah told them all about paddy's day

Junkyard Tom

RobertKK wrote: »

Let's not forget most of the locals didn't support the 1916 rising...

Is there any credible evidence for that?

Paramite Pie

seamus wrote: »

A ceremony at every primary school? What a fncking waste of money.

Well the soldiers are paid regardless, I doubt their getting any extra money. Not sure what the copies of the proclamation cost but it's not a bad thing to have in schools whatsoever.

hatrickpatrick

Fantastic idea, but I'm a bit surprised that it's necessary at all - surely as part of our national heritage, the Irish flag should be a basic tenet of primary education and should therefore already be easily found in any school? O_o

NachoBusiness

Fair play. We should all be proud of 1916. I think there is an onus on everyone to do their bit to mark the centenary.

Indeed, last night I did mine when I went down to the GPO with a bucket of cement and filled in the bullet holes in the pillars.

riffmongous

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Is there any credible evidence for that?

There was an article I linked to in the last big 1916 thread where the authors looked at the route the prisoners were marched along and pointed out it was through areas that were directly dependent on the british soldiers, as there were some barracks nearby, and it was their jeering of the prisoners that was taken as representative of the dublin population

Very Bored

Presumably when the kids lower the flag again they will do so whilst the Shinners in the school belt out a chorus of "Take It Down From The Mast" .

Sleepy

Would love to see the costings for this exercise in futility.

recipio

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Green, White and Gold flows off the tongue easier than Orange. More poetic too, since nothing rhymes with orange! I guess perhaps the early flags veered towards the yellow end of the spectrum to distinguish them from the green, white and red of Italy.

No problem with them sticking the flag up in schools but let's leave out the whole "pledging allegiance to the flag" bs. I kinda like the way we generally don't get hung up on the finer points of flag etiquette.

Except the original idea was to symbolize peace between Nationalists and Unionists.Unfortunately there is no 'Gold Order' or 'Goldmen' representing Unionist opinion.
1916 was a coup d'etat that actually succeeded and it became part of the nationalist agenda to reinforce that narrative. Celebrating it is unavoidable of course, especially with an election looming but I wish it were a bit more low key.

RobertKK

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Is there any credible evidence for that?

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Easter_Rising

The rebels had little public support at the time, and were largely blamed for hundreds of people being killed and wounded, (mostly civilians caught in the crossfire). At the time the executions were demanded in motions passed in some Irish local authorities and by many newspapers, including the Irish Independent and The Irish Times.[2] Prisoners being transported to Frongoch internment camp in Wales were jeered and spat upon by angry Dubliners—many of whom had relatives serving with British forces in the First World War.

The executions marked the beginning of a change in Irish opinion, much of which had until then seen the rebels as irresponsible adventurers whose actions were likely to harm the nationalist cause.

whiskeyman

Oh great...

More army deafness claims to deal with ... this time from screaming kids!

Chemical Byrne

This is rediculous! It's nothing short of propaganda and indoctrination of primary school children into the nationalistic claptrap that is typical of this country.

Schools should not be subjected to this sort of meddling.

I'm sure the schools would be much more interested to see the money being squandered on this rubbish being spent on upgrading school builidngs and hiring a few extra SNAs.

Zillah

Deleted User wrote: »

About time we started embracing our national flag. I think all public places should have it flown proudly. I really like the way the Americans are proud of their flag and wish we could be as proud of ours.

The American obsession with their own flag, and the gormless nationalism that comes with it, is without a doubt one of the least endearing things about our cousins across the water.

Very Bored

I don't think there should be a huge fuss over "flag etiquette". The Americans are far too nationalistic in my opinion, all this s**t of "God bless America" every time the President makes a speech gets up my nose. No harm in teaching kids the national anthem or the history of the flag and to respect both (as well as those of other countries). But there should also be a limit.

dandyelevan

padd b1975 wrote: »

Fantastic idea.

Teaching our children that the national flag is something to be respected and the etiquette surrounding it's use is always praiseworthy as far as I'm concerned.

Too many generations have grown up mostly seeing it defaced by event junkie soccer supporters or draped over some murdering terrorist's coffins.

Well done to all involved.

All deceased members of the PDF are entitled to have their coffin draped in the National Flag, some of my close relatives, and my Dad included.
Not a terrorist or criminal among them.

omega man

Gatling wrote: »

Strangely enough we were in Denmark of 3 week during the summer and every house had a backgarden flag pole flying a skinny danish flag not a full sized one but more what you might see on a boat or battlement .
Most of the family's we spent time with were suprised we don't have similar here

Very typical in Norway too. No "connotations" as a previous poster suggested.

d2ww

dandyelevan wrote: »

All deceased members of the PDF are entitled to have their coffin draped in the National Flag, some of my close relatives, and my Dad included.
Not a terrorist or criminal among them.

You know right well he didn't mean that.

Junkyard Tom

RobertKK wrote: »

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Easter_Rising

You specifically said 'most people didn't support the rebels'. Were there any polls taken at the time that proves more than 50% of people of Dublin didn't support the rebels or was this 'Dubliners were against the rising' just the pro-British media writing its usual bollocks?

Here's riffmongus' post from the previous thread:

Foy and Barton concluded "Public attitudes locally were not uniformly hostile in an area which the police had come to regard as increasingly militant in the months before the Rising. Some of the British soldiers who fought there noted a strong antipathy towards them." At the South Dublin Union, Major de Courcy Wheeler noted that there was no hostility from the people towards the insurgents: "It was perfectly plain that all their admiration was for the heroes who had surrendered."

This account flatly contradicts most of the contemporary accounts, says Berresford Ellis.This is a view shared by Michael Foy and Brian Barton also highlighting expressions of sympathy from the people who watched the prisoners being marched away. Quoting the diary of John Clarke a shopkeeper who writes "Thus ends the last attempt for poor old Ireland. What noble fellows. The cream of the land. None of your corner-boy class."


Foy and Barton felt the contradictions could be modified by other factors. They examined the routes which the British soldiers took the prisoners. Michael Mallin’s column of prisoners they say were marched two miles to Richmond barracks through a "strongly loyalist and Protestant artisan class district." It was from this district that the Royal Dublin Fusiliers and other Irish regiments of the British army drew their recruits. It was around Richmond barracks they say, that people lived who were economically dependent on the military. Another aspect they raise was the degree of hostility from Dublin women whose sons were serving in the army in France. They note that some priests at Church Street rebuked the insurgent prisoners and wounded. However the generally accepted account of the population of Dublin being uniformly hostile to the surrendered insurgents is one of the myths repeated so often as to become 'history.'

historyireland.com/the-easter-rising/

Very Bored

Padd, that comment about it being draped over someone's coffin is quite simply one of the most ignorant remarks I've read on this website and betrays a total lack of comprehension of the situation played out in a part of our country but as I don't want to derail this thread I will leave that as my one and only comment on that particular aspect of the issue.

dandyelevan

d2ww wrote: »

You know right well he didn't mean that.

All I know is what was written, but we'll leave it at that.

Omackeral

kneemos wrote: »

Houses aren't the place for flags.It has sinister conortations in every country.

Openly identifying as McGregor fans?

RobertKK

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You specifically said 'most people didn't support the rebels'. Were there any polls taken at the time that proves more than 50% of people of Dublin didn't support the rebels or was this 'Dubliners were against the rising' just the pro-British media writing its usual bollocks?

Here's riffmongus' post from the previous thread:

Here is what the Irish Times said:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]There was not a "national uprising" in Dublin. It was not even a sectional "uprising". The whole sad business was conceived and planned, and carried into fatal effect without the knowledge or the sanction of the Irish Nation. Had it been possible to take a vote of the people of this country on the issue, 99 per cent of them would have declared against such an attempt without hesitation and with all the power of protest they could muster. In due time we shall discuss the varied influences that operated on the minds of the ill fated leaders, who have paid the dread penalty of their own rashness, folly and credulity. But on the morrow of their doom, and while the fate of so many other victims is still undecided we hope the charity of silence, will be extended to the dead. Ireland has already suffered bitterly through the ghastly events of the last days of April; but the hearts of her people are strong and their minds have been disciplined by trials and disappointments that would have made the men. of any other nation despair of their country’s future and their own. Had the counsel of the National leaders been regarded, Dublin and Ireland would not have known the week of horrors whose "aftermath" must now be reaped in agony by thousands. The wise counsel of earnest and patriotic leaders will not be flouted henceforward by the most "hot headed" members of the Irish community.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans Serif][SIZE=-1]We want to liberate our country from Dublin Castle rule. Mr Birrell has ceased to be Chief Secretary. We care not who succeeds him; the new ruler, like all his predecessors, will represent a System against which the heart and soul of Ireland rebel. But the idea of handing Ireland over to the brutal tyranny of the Kaiser, his junkers, his military satraps, and his Army of outrage mongers and desecrators is more repulsive if possible than the notion of acquiescing in the perpetual dominance of English politicians at Dublin Castle. The soldiers and statesmen and martyrs of our race in days gone by did not fight and plead, and plan and suffer that the land of their love might become a toy or tool in the hands of Spaniard, Frank or Teuton; and a German victory now would place this Island at the mercy of a tyrannical conqueror more helplessly than it was at the feet of King James’s Ministers when O’Neill and O’Donnell lay dead in Rome three hundred years ago. An Ireland ruled by the freely elected representatives of all the people who live within her borders is the ideal for which we have striven, and to which we shall adhere. The realisation of the great ideal is within our reach – it cannot be stayed or delayed a moment beyond the specified hour if we do not give the wondering world an exhibition of folly and incapacity unparalleled in the history of nations. The accredited leaders of the National Movement guided us to the verge of victory – more, they placed the crown of victory in our hands, and if untoward events on the Continent of Europe had not happened, that crown would have been placed on our country's brow and the horrors of last April end would never have befallen. Our confidence unimpaired and our faith imperishable in those leaders remain. With them is Ireland’s certainty of freedom.[/SIZE][/FONT]

eviltwin

My kids school already flies a flag, surprised more don't do it anyway.

crybaby

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I'm sure the schools would be much more interested to see the money being squandered on this rubbish being spent on upgrading school builidngs and hiring a few extra SNAs.

Ah cmon now, exactly how do you upgrade school buildings and hire SNAs for the cost of a few thousand flags?

I think it's nice to be honest, Irish kids should have a greater awareness of their country's history at a younger age.

padd b1975

dandyelevan wrote: »

All deceased members of the PDF are entitled to have their coffin draped in the National Flag, some of my close relatives, and my Dad included.
Not a terrorist or criminal among them.

That's some mighty fine jumping to the wrong conclusion right there.

RIP to your Dad, I was by no means having a pop at our legitimate armed forces.

seamus

crybaby wrote: »

I think it's nice to be honest, Irish kids should have a greater awareness of their country's history at a younger age.

On a point of order; distributing flags and proclamations and then holding a handover ceremony isn't education, it's propaganda.

History should be taught as objectively as possible.

The idea of children saluting a flag and/or reciting some nationalist manifesto - like they do in the US - is actually terrifying. It's like North Korea or Nazi Germany. It's the last thing I'd want to see brought in.

By all means learn about it, see the things that shaped the country you live in. But don't turn it into some kind of religion.

user2011

Ha a school in Mayo, the selection peocess was all above board and independently verified lol

dandyelevan

padd b1975 wrote: »

That's some mighty fine jumping to the wrong conclusion right there.

RIP to your Dad, I was by no means having a pop at our legitimate armed forces.

No offence taken.

recipio

Very Bored wrote: »

I don't think there should be a huge fuss over "flag etiquette". The Americans are far too nationalistic in my opinion, all this s**t of "God bless America" every time the President makes a speech gets up my nose. No harm in teaching kids the national anthem or the history of the flag and to respect both (as well as those of other countries). But there should also be a limit.

You will get up to a year in prison in the 'States for defacement of the flag so they take it seriously.
For such a cataclysmic change to the governance of this country would a referendum not have been in order in 1922. ? It would have spared us a lot of misery ever since. Just sayin'.