Richmond 2015 UCI Road World Championships - Spoiler tags req'd or start race threads

Beasty

MPFGLB wrote: »

The more I see who are lining out for the teams at the Worlds RRs the more I lament the lack of numbers for Ireland

Now don't be sad....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5hWWe-ts2s

Pudsy33

MPFGLB wrote: »

The more I see who are lining out for the teams at the Worlds RRs the more I lament the lack of numbers for Ireland

In reality it's gonna be very tough to ever get more than 3. Not using our quota is annoying though.

Am I right in saying next years WC is in Qatar or somewhere out that way? It'll be pan flat so one for Bennett maybe.

Taxuser1

Qatar - Tom Boonen :-)

Beasty

Going to be a very crowded calendar next year with the Tour finishing couple of weeks before the Olympic Road races, then only just over a week until the Vuelta and the Worlds after that. It may be a case of last man standing, or simply targeting one of the "main events" and ignoring the others (or even using them for training)

Rambling Man

Beasty wrote: »

Going to be a very crowded calendar next year with the Tour finishing couple of weeks before the Olympic Road races, then only just over a week until the Vuelta and the Worlds after that. It may be a case of last man standing, or simply targeting one of the "main events" and ignoring the others (or even using them for training)

I imagine the Olympics would be lowest on that pecking order for most

petethedrummer

MPFGLB wrote: »

The more I see who are lining out for the teams at the Worlds RRs the more I lament the lack of numbers for Ireland

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/contact-us

Beasty

Rambling Man wrote: »

I imagine the Olympics would be lowest on that pecking order for most

But not for all. I would add that many countries take the Olympics far more seriously than Ireland (or at least many of its diehard cycling fans) appears to. The Olympics go up another notch each time. I reckon another 3 or 4 Olympic "cycles" and even some of the doubters around here will be starting to appreciate the value of an Olympic gold (just look at how far it has already come as an Olympic sport since the end of the amateur era)

Either way some of the one day specialists and probably sprinters would have plenty to gain and very little to lose by focusing on the Olympics next year.

MPFGLB

Olympic road race next year does suit Dan Martin & Nicolas Roche

I just hope they both go as will have good enough form after the Tour (both usually do)

Problem is for Nico I think he wants to target Vuelta and maybe Dan also

Could be ok I suppose if both rode a conservative Tour ...well Dan could if only chasing stages (like Purito did this year) but Nico (if riding) will have to go flat out for SKY. ( to me it seems harder at times riding in the wind all day and chasing and riding at the front of the train than turning it up on the last 2km of a climb)

Taxuser1

Roche will be playing second and third fiddle to Landa and Froome in Spain next year. His GC days are long gone. Even Nieve has gone better

Beasty

Taxuser1 wrote: »

Roche will be playing second and third fiddle to Landa and Froome in Spain next year. His GC days are long gone. Even Nieve has gone better

If Froome goes for the Tour, if he has any sense he'll give the Vuelta a miss - Thomas may be too busy celebrating another gold to support him in Spain;)

pelevin

Taxuser1 wrote: »

maybe you're getting caught up with my very loose use of the phrase "bound to" but I hope in the context of what I was putting forward, it wasn't lost totally.

let me re-phrase

all things being equal : on such a course and with legitimate luck in running, on all known past form on courses such as this and in races as big as this, Monuments included, my opinion is that 40/1 about Simon Gerrans is very, very big. All things being equal, would you think he would finish outside the Top 3 in each one of 41 times running this race? If not, then you're agreeing with me.

Backed up by Aussie selectors and by Matthews himself who admits to sharing team-leading duties with Gerrans. In fact, going into Ponferrada last year, Matthews was the preferred choice pre-race of the selectors for the course but on the road Gerrans made the decisive cut.

I think Matthews has comes on leaps and bounds this year though so he's still my preferred pick but like I argue, Gerrans focuses well for the big ones and might just be the forgotten man in a finale similiar to Quebec.

Well Gerrans is certainly a proven winner on such big occasions, 2nd last year & maybe you're right that he is flying under the radar after such a season & perhaps will actually hit his peak form, unhindered here.

I don't think your maths though quite make sense - I don't think the odds are 40/1 on him coming in the top 3.

wav1

Pudsy33 wrote: »

In reality it's gonna be very tough to ever get more than 3. Not using our quota is annoying though.

Am I right in saying next years WC is in Qatar or somewhere out that way? It'll be pan flat so one for Bennett maybe.

We had 4 two years ago

Taxuser1

my skewed maths, apologies

a quarter odds of course at 40/1 but given he went off at 12/1 last year, i just think they've got their numbers wrong

pelevin

I'll probably lump a couple of euros on him myself so!

Lusk_Doyle

Taxuser1 wrote: »

my skewed maths, apologies

a quarter odds of course at 40/1 but given he went off at 12/1 last year, i just think they've got their numbers wrong

Why? Sure he's going to crash. Isn't that his new trick this year?

MPFGLB

Taxuser1 wrote: »

Roche will be playing second and third fiddle to Landa and Froome in Spain next year. His GC days are long gone. Even Nieve has gone better

Landa wil lead at the Giro which he is targeting and then he will ride the Tour for support of Froome
Froome may go back to Spain but I doubt esp if he does the Olympics and after he found it so hard to get in shape this year after a hard Tour ....same with Thomas ..after cobbles and Tour (where he hopes to be second fiddle and then Olympics he wont be going to Spain either imo)

Nieve went well but Nico crashed while lying 4th and could have done better.
So no I don't think Vuelta GC is out of reach and neither does he. Only issue is as I said he will be too tired after the Tour

( plus grapevine has Nieve going to TCS next year)

Taxuser1

MPFGLB wrote: »

Landa wil lead at the Giro which he is targeting and then he will ride the Tour for support of Froome
Froome may go back to Spain but I doubt esp if he does the Olympics and after he found it so hard to get in shape this year after a hard Tour ....same with Thomas ..after cobbles and Tour (where he hopes to be second fiddle and then Olympics he wont be going to Spain either imo)

Nieve went well but Nico crashed while lying 4th and could have done better.
So no I don't think Vuelta GC is out of reach and neither does he. Only issue is as I said he will be too tired after the Tour

( plus grapevine has Nieve going to TCS next year)

you must have access to SKY's top brass as Landa hasn't said what he's targetting next year.

MPFGLB

Taxuser1 wrote: »

you must have access to SKY's top brass as Landa hasn't said what he's targetting next year.

Landa Spanish supporters have said it ...so no need for sarcasm...
Plus he is on record as saying he goes better in spring/summer than in autumn

Lusk_Doyle

MPFGLB wrote: »

Landa Spanish supporters have said it ...so no need for sarcasm...
Plus he is on record as saying he goes better in spring/summer than in autumn

There's ALWAYS a need for sarcasm.

Lusk_Doyle

Taxuser1 wrote: »

you must have access to SKY's top brass as Landa hasn't said what he's targetting next year.

He works for Team Sky. Didn't you know that? I think he is a front wheel skewer or something.

Taxuser1

MPFGLB wrote: »

Landa Spanish supporters have said it ...so no need for sarcasm...
Plus he is on record as saying he goes better in spring/summer than in autumn

I wasnt even trying to be sarcastic. Here's a go though. Meester Brailsford, eh, yo quiero voy solo al Giro por dos million dollars, por que no me gusta Espana in Augusto y las todos, how you say, fans, que, want me to go to Italy.

Sure Manuel, you can have Italy and Nico can have Spain but you better be good for Froomey in Tirreno, Romandie, Dauphine and France

Si Senor. Dos million dollars

MPFGLB

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

He works for Team Sky. Didn't you know that? I think he is a front wheel skewer or something.

Oi ...and that's enough sarcasm from youi too

MPFGLB

Taxuser1 wrote: »

I wasnt even trying to be sarcastic. Here's a go though. Meester Brailsford, eh, yo quiero voy solo al Giro por dos million dollars, por que no me gusta Espana in Augusto y las todos, how you say, fans, que, want me to go to Italy.

Sure Manuel, you can have Italy and Nico can have Spain but you better be good for Froomey in Tirreno, Romandie, Dauphine and France

Si Senor. Dos million dollars

One last time ....Basque fans have said that he joins SKY on the proviso he leads at the Giro....how much clearer do you want it. I presume he will like Porte be called then to ride for Froome at the Tour

But go ahead ..knock yourself out mocking my point .. it does your great credit

Lusk_Doyle

MPFGLB wrote: »

One last time ....Basque fans have said that he joins SKY on the proviso he leads at the Giro....how much clearer do you want it. I presume he will like Porte be called then to ride for Froome at the Tour

But go ahead ..knock yourself out mocking my point .. it does your great credit

Relax. Over tightening skewers causes them to break.

Taxuser1

MPFGLB wrote: »

One last time ....Basque fans have said that he joins SKY on the proviso he leads at the Giro....how much clearer do you want it. I presume he will like Porte be called then to ride for Froome at the Tour

But go ahead ..knock yourself out mocking my point .. it does your great credit

I got you the first time hence the sarcasm. Basque fans have said. What did they say when Nieve joined?

What did Irish fans say when Nico joined. Oh yeah, he would be team leader for SKY in La Vuelta.

Listen to the fans Sir Dave. It's written, that's why

gordongekko

No link but Cavendish is out of the world's due to a shoulder injury

MPFGLB

Taxuser1 wrote: »

I got you the first time hence the sarcasm. Basque fans have said. What did they say when Nieve joined?

What did Irish fans say when Nico joined. Oh yeah, he would be team leader for SKY in La Vuelta.

Listen to the fans Sir Dave. It's written, that's why

Maybe but Landa surely is joining SKY as he doesn't have a leader role at Astana and he is on record sayig that he goes well in spring summer so surely he has negiotated a leader role at Giro and will support Froome in Tour ...this is what makes sense no matter what the fans or you say...why you are determined to discredit this view I am not sure... But only time will tell

And my points about the Vuleta GC still stand...The only other contenders I see are maybe Henao or Konig depending on their programme especially if Nieve leaves

Taxuser1

seems to me that SKY is the graveyard for any decent GT riders personal hopes and dreams once signing.

Henao has gone backwards since his dropping last year. Konig, while a dogged domestique this year, has failed to live up to the hype, Nieve was a consistent GT rider and despite focusing on the Vuelta, seemed to be SKY's 4th choice behind Froomey, Henao and Roche. The younger Sebastian Henao has gone missing altogether, not even winning Tour d'L'Avenir, only 9th. Roche was promised the world and didn't deliver over 3 weeks.

Geraint Thomas could have focused years back on Tours but is constrained by his appetite for the Spring Classics. SKY buy a certain type of rider to fit the mould of support cast for Froome. It seems a like it or lump it policy with their own desires sated by the fat money cheques they get for selling their dreams.

So, whether Landa gets his own backing off the back of one decent Giro is something that is questionable at best. My guess is he turns out to be a better signing that all the rest of them but still not a GT winner. How could he be, he can't time trial? Would you rate him in the Top 10 of all the combined GT contenders past and future ? I wouldn't.

el tel

RobFowl wrote: »

No point sending someone just for the sake of it, the have to be able to make a contribution at the very least.

I think that when you only send Bennett and Dunne as your team, you are in effect only there for the sake of it unfortunately.

I suppose though the world's is a bit of a grand national and if it comes down to a big an unruly sprint, Bennett is better than the majority of participants.

RobFowl

el tel wrote: »

I think that when you only send Bennett and Dunne as your team, you are in effect only there for the sake of it unfortunately.

I suppose though the world's is a bit of a grand national and if it comes down to a big an unruly sprint, Bennett is better than the majority of participants.

Kelly and Roche both won medals when there as part of a 2 man team ..

Should they have added others simply to pad out the start list????

REBELSAFC

el tel wrote: »

I think that when you only send Bennett and Dunne as your team, you are in effect only there for the sake of it unfortunately.

I suppose though the world's is a bit of a grand national and if it comes down to a big an unruly sprint, Bennett is better than the majority of participants.

Why couldn't Sam be asked to pick the third member of the team? There would be a few advantages to this approach:

Bennett gets a confidence boost knowing he is being fully backed by CI.
We get a third member who knows his job is to bury himself for Sam...even if that is only for 100km
It builds a good team spirit as everyone is pulling for one cause.
And possibly a young rider will get experience which will be useful in the future.

Its a pity Ryan Mullen can't ride the in the seniors race. He probably wouldn't last the distance after the TT but would be a great help early on in the race

Beasty

There are performance criteria to be satisfied before you can even be considered for the team. I'm not sure what they are but would imagine if someone satisfied them and was willing to go they would have been considered. You can't just tear that up to fill a quota slot. What if they did that and whoever was chosen lasted half a lap? Then we would have posters whingeing about CI wasting their limited resources on someone who was simply not good enough.

Of course I am available regardless but if I get the call I think I would put my efforts into supporting Team GB. RobFowl might not be a bad shout though...

REBELSAFC

Beasty wrote: »

There are performance criteria to be satisfied before you can even be considered for the team. I'm not sure what they are but would imagine if someone satisfied them and was willing to go they would have been considered. You can't just tear that up to fill a quota slot. What if they did that and whoever was cos lasted half a lap? Then we would have posters whingeing about CI wasting their limited resources on someone who was simply not good enough.

Of course I am available regardless but if I get the call I think I would put my efforts into supporting Team GB. RobFowl might not be a bad shout though...

Maybe that is part of the problem. People would be more understanding if they knew the criteria.....and they could complain about CI setting the bar too high!!

wav1

RobFowl wrote: »

Kelly and Roche both won medals when there as part of a 2 man team ..

Should they have added others simply to pad out the start list????

I still think they should have sent the full allocation.OK we don't have a huge pool to select a third rider from,but still feel there was enough to get a decent ride from.Other Nations send teams and probably all of them are out the back after a lap or two,but they take up their invite.Biggest disappointment of these Worlds for me is that we failed to qualify a team of U23 riders.

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

There are performance criteria to be satisfied before you can even be considered for the team. I'm not sure what they are but would imagine if someone satisfied them and was willing to go they would have been considered. You can't just tear that up to fill a quota slot. What if they did that and whoever was chosen lasted half a lap? Then we would have posters whingeing about CI wasting their limited resources on someone who was simply not good enough.

Of course I am available regardless but if I get the call I think I would put my efforts into supporting Team GB. RobFowl might not be a bad shout though...

GB.Would that be team Go Bennett or the other crowd,?

Mr. Grieves

How many riders will Sagan have supporting him, does anyone know?

Pudsy33

Mr. Grieves wrote: »

How many riders will Sagan have supporting him, does anyone know?

2 I believe

pelevin

Beasty wrote: »

Of course I am available regardless but if I get the call I think I would put my efforts into supporting Team GB.

Sorry Beasty but I think that's something like a definition of a traitor! If you got the call from Team GB, then it would be ok to focus your efforts on supporting Team GB.

Beasty

pelevin wrote: »

Sorry Beasty but I think that's something like a definition of a traitor! If you got the call from Team GB, then it would be ok to focus your efforts on supporting Team GB.

How dare you! Yorkshire comes first then GB. If neither of them are in the mix I would be more than happy to give Sam a lead out if I get a chance. Suspect it won't come down to that though as I've some other Worlds on the calendar in a couple of weeks.....

cunavalos

Interesting to note that although Sam has 4 BORA-Argon teammates down to start, looking through their respective teams they will unlikely to be offering additional support for Sam
Voss - working for Degenkolb
Barta - working for Stybar/ Konig
Postlberger - Winner of 2015 Ras and only signed as a stagiare with BORA in August so may not have ridden at all with Sam before
Thwaites - the course may suit him more than Sam and if no real leader emerges from Team GB may fancy going for a high individual placing. Will have support from Beasty as he will be representing Team Yorkshire.

Zyzz

Who are people putting their money on?!

Beasty

Zyzz wrote: »

Who are people putting their money on?!

We're waiting for you to declare to give us an idea of who to stay clear of.

retalivity

Armistead to win the ladies, and Deignan to solo off the front and win the mens by 6 minutes.

JK.BMC

Zyzz wrote: »

Who are people putting their money on?!

Japan ?

Zyzz

Beasty wrote: »

We're waiting for you to declare to give us an idea of who to stay clear of.

Well that isn't very nice

pelevin

I've a hit and hope fiver on Nibali at 80/1. He's done me more than good in the past so I won't begrudge him a fiver however remote the chances. I've also Tom Boonen at thirty something to one. Not looking to sort out me retirement or anything, just 2 perhaps illogical bets.

JK.BMC

Terpstra
Boassen-Hagen
Van Avermaet

In no particular order. Ten bob to win on each

wav1

Big Tom [not the singer]on the 10th anniversary of his previous worlds

ednwireland

Edit sorry not on misread bbc website

pelevin

ednwireland wrote: »

Edit sorry not on misread bbc website

Very cryptic stuff there!