PW Demonial system - deactivate one PIR on system

amadablam

Hi All,

I have the PW Demonial alarm over a year and while it does the job, Im kind of regretting not looking around a bit more, hindsight :rolleyes:

Does anyone know how I can disable one PIR as I have a pet in the area now that wasnt there on installation and from what I have read, the codes are not available so is there an alternative method I could use without an engineer call out? PM if you you can as I just need a short term fix until I decide what to do next.

Im loathe to say it but I might put in a new wireless system although its a shame to have all the PW hardware and having to get rid of it but Im not 100% happy with some of the features and also the cost of additional hardware from PW.

KoolKid

Did they not go through these options when showing you how to use the system. Inhibiting or isolating a zone should be a basic user function. I would call them and ask for these functions to be available to you.

amadablam

KoolKid wrote: »

Did they not go through these options when showing you how to use the system. Inhibiting or isolating a zone should be a basic user function. I would call them and ask for these functions to be available to you.

Nope, unfortunately

Installation was quite hurried and I got a user manual that is absolutely useless, a picture of each component and an idiot guide explanation to what it is. No mention of zone isolation.

The panel seems to be restrictive without any graphical interface on it.

KoolKid

Call them and ask. You should be able to do this on any alarm system.

amadablam

KoolKid wrote: »

Call them and ask. You should be able to do this on any alarm system.

Will do, I'll call them later and hopefully they will be able to provide me with the instructions knon hhow to do this.

I'll post back my experience.

amadablam

Rang them from work and explained what I wanted to do and got an explanation on how to arm or partial disarm the alarm, both are fairly obvious functions of the system and made me wonder what they thought I had been doing with the system for the past year or so D

Im still none the wiser as I got cut off and when I rang back the technical support side was closed.

Tomorrow is another day

If anyone can spare me the suspense, I would be delighted to here from them. There must be more than just me wanting to do this on this system.

kub

Hi OP, I have never had the 'privilege' of working on one of these panels, but if you find you are getting no where with PW here is the manufacturers details.

Honeywell Security Group
Newhouse Industrial Estate
Motherwell
Lanarkshire
ML1 5SB
United Kingdom
Tel:+44 (0) 1698 738200

amadablam

Thanks Kub, much appreciated.

I wonder if they will supply information to the public. Might be an option if I don't get some solution from pw.

I'll give them a call tomorrow but no doubt they will want me in front of the panel as they work until 5.30 i think. So do I so I might have to figure out how to be in two places at once

KoolKid

I think its terrible that a company the size of PW don't even take the time to cover the basic operation of the system with their customers.
Maybe its because the system is based around only internal protection that they think people won't bother with the part set. Quite a lot of break ins happen when people are home.

amadablam

KoolKid wrote: »

I think its terrible that a company the size of PW don't even take the time to cover the basic operation of the system with their customers.
Maybe its because the system is based around only internal protection that they think people won't bother with the part set. Quite a lot of break ins happen when people are home.

I use the part set every night but I find it a bit annoying that there was no proper manual given that would explain how to turn off a pir and isolate an area. It's just one pir in one room that I want to deactivate but I would not be surprised if it's not possible without engineer call out and without physically removing the pir from the wall or something like that.

From what I have read, they need a programming terminal which probably necessitates an engineer call out

KoolKid

It should be easily possible from the user menu. All good systems we use have this as a standard feature.

amadablam

KoolKid wrote: »

It should be easily possible from the user menu. All good systems we use have this as a standard feature.

Just off the phone with them. As I suspected with their system (crap) they can disable the PIR sensor remotely but they need to send an engineer back to the house if I need it reactivated again.

Told them I needed another solution and I was told.........'does it need to be that room? or could you use a room without a PIR?'

What a load of nonsense.

Rang again to clarify and I can have it disabled completely which requires engineer with programming terminal to revisit at my cost.

Or it can be disabled in home or away mode which isnt suitable either as I want it enabled at night when I partial arm the alarm for downstairs.

KoolKid

Sounds like a bit of revenue generation to me.
Even systems we were installing 20 years ago allowed a user to inhibit a zone.
Also if it can be remotely disabled it can be remotely enabled.
So do PW not allow customers any access to the user menu??

amadablam

KoolKid wrote: »

Sounds like a bit of revenue generation to me.
Even systems we were installing 20 years ago allowed a user to inhibit a zone.
Also if it can be remotely disabled it can be remotely enabled.
So do PW not allow customers any access to the user menu??

Thats exactly what it is :mad:

Im going to find an alternative system and write off this experience as its not worth the frustration.

Apparently when they delete it remotely it has to be reprogrammed locally to put it back online. Only thing they can do is have it disabled when I have the system fully armed which will solve my problem during the week days but not at evening and weekend days when i would like my system fully armed, including that zone. If I want to change the settings, I need to call each time to have tech support make a change on their system. How frustrating.

I even asked if there was anything physical that could be done to the sensor to stop it detecting, nope, delete/disable remotely is the only way.

Was going to contact the manufacturer but they wont supply technical assistance to home users, just installers.

amadablam

Final update........I say final..........as the engineer/tech guy I spoke to told me that I was misinformed earlier and "without being blunt" this is what is or isnt possible :rolleyes:

They will not turn off the sensor as they would only do this for a short term, building works, temp access, etc.

It would be inconvenient for me as I would have to call up each day to have it enabled/re enabled on a daily basis. I.E. its an inflexible system.

They will not have it turned off in either Armed or Partial Armed modes due to insurance reasons, their liability not mine. Moving the pir to another area was not possible as the engineer put it in the best place to cover entry points but possibly it could be moved if I bought window sensors but he wouldn't suggest moving the pir even if it was better suited to my requirements, it wouldn't be something they advise or will do.

I asked was it a hardware issue and could a different panel be installed to allow me to configure the zone to my daily needs...........No.

Im apparently the only person ever to want to inhibit one zone at different times of the day. This is obviously not true as I would see my request as very reasonable and technically viable.

The guy said no one knew more about this system than him so I was getting the best advice. I dont doubt that.

The thing I have learned is that the system is completely inflexible and has only two modes. Fully armed (whole house) or Partial Armed (downstairs only)

Nothing can be changed other than I use a different room that doesnt have a sensor in it to suit my needs. Pet friendly it is not unless your pet is just back from the taxidermist or spends a lot of its time swimming in circles in a small bowl.

Thats my experience of Phonewatch after over a year with them.

No one from Phone Watch ever high lighted the rigidness and lack of flexibility for the customers needs at any stage to me until I had a reason to ask.

When I signed up I was told that once the contract was up, I could switch monitoring companies if I wanted. This now appears not to be true also.

Im off to think of next steps but to say that I am extremely dissatisfied with the system, in an understatement.

Phonewatch and Flexibility are not compatible! If you need flexibility look elsewhere.

kub

amadablam wrote: »

Final update........I say final..........as the engineer/tech guy I spoke to told me that I was misinformed earlier and "without being blunt" this is what is or isnt possible :rolleyes:

They will not turn off the sensor as they would only do this for a short term, building works, temp access, etc.

It would be inconvenient for me as I would have to call up each day to have it enabled/re enabled on a daily basis. I.E. its an inflexible system.

They will not have it turned off in either Armed or Partial Armed modes due to insurance reasons, their liability not mine. Moving the pir to another area was not possible as the engineer put it in the best place to cover entry points but possibly it could be moved if I bought window sensors but he wouldn't suggest moving the pir even if it was better suited to my requirements, it wouldn't be something they advise or will do.

I asked was it a hardware issue and could a different panel be installed to allow me to configure the zone to my daily needs...........No.

Im apparently the only person ever to want to inhibit one zone at different times of the day. This is obviously not true as I would see my request as very reasonable and technically viable.

The guy said no one knew more about this system than him so I was getting the best advice. I dont doubt that.

The thing I have learned is that the system is completely inflexible and has only two modes. Fully armed (whole house) or Partial Armed (downstairs only)

Nothing can be changed other than I use a different room that doesnt have a sensor in it to suit my needs. Pet friendly it is not unless your pet is just back from the taxidermist or spends a lot of its time swimming in circles in a small bowl.

Thats my experience of Phonewatch after over a year with them.

No one from Phone Watch ever high lighted the rigidness and lack of flexibility for the customers needs at any stage to me until I had a reason to ask.

When I signed up I was told that once the contract was up, I could switch monitoring companies if I wanted. This now appears not to be true also.

Im off to think of next steps but to say that I am extremely dissatisfied with the system, in an understatement.

Phonewatch and Flexibility are not compatible! If you need flexibility look elsewhere.

Many a time fellow installers on here have advised various posters to get a system that suits they themselves not the company. Well with PW they have a product that suits them.

By any chance, when you signed up originally with them, did they tell you that you could transfer to other monitoring stations in writing? Just if they did, then you have an excellent case.

That guy you were speaking with certainly comes across as arrogant, i have to wonder would anyone in Honeywell know more about the system than him?

OP I in all honesty am sorry for your trouble, I am in the business now pushing on 25 years and i remember when i started out back then, long before there was any PW, that zones could be inhibited at the clients discretion.
So they are basically telling you that a typical 30 year old panel would be more suitable for your application.

amadablam

kub wrote: »

Many a time fellow installers on here have advised various posters to get a system that suits they themselves not the company. Well with PW they have a product that suits them.

By any chance, when you signed up originally with them, did they tell you that you could transfer to other monitoring stations in writing? Just if they did, then you have an excellent case.

That guy you were speaking with certainly comes across as arrogant, i have to wonder would anyone in Honeywell know more about the system than him?

OP I in all honesty am sorry for your trouble, I am in the business now pushing on 25 years and i remember when i started out back then, long before there was any PW, that zones could be inhibited at the clients discretion.
So they are basically telling you that a typical 30 year old panel would be more suitable for your application.

Thanks Kub

I was under pressure when I ordered as I was moving and didn't put much thought into it so lesson learned the hard way.

Going to check the house for a contract but I would say that they are too clever.

Honeywell won't deal with household customers so I won't get much from them.

I've thought about just taking the sensor down but that will probably show immediately as tampering. Funnily I insisted on buying extra pir at the time as I wanted to cover more areas than standard but they were delighted with that. Now I want to change one, it's a big deal.

The guy i spoke to told me 'around here they call me "the oracle'''. He also insinuated that other systems couldnt do what I wanted so I said I doubt it and we moved on.....

I won't be held to ransom on it though as I am sure that the sensor can be blinded in some way.

Either way ill be getting rid of the system as it is not useful to me with the current restrictions they have on it. Waste of money.

KoolKid

Most of what he has told you does not seem right. Looking at their manual it is well dumbed down on features.
Ask them for everything he is saying in writing & you have a very good case for a refund on this. Tell them if the system can not work around your needs then it is not fit for purpose.

amadablam

KoolKid wrote: »

Most of what he has told you does not seem right. Looking at their manual it is well dumbed down on features.
Ask them for everything he is saying in writing & you have a very good case for a refund on this. Tell them if the system can not work around your needs then it is not fit for purpose.

I agree, he actually told me that what the previous person told me was counter 'intuitive' and he had to go back to her and call me back, which he did and I got the response above from him.

In fact he told me that I should find another room for my pet as my pet won't call the key holders or emergency services, they will. He simply did not want to do anything with the pir sensor, either permanent or temporary.

The two previous customer service team members were obviously very mistaken as the 'oracle' knows all......

Can't imagine that he would put it in writing but I might write to them and ask for it in writing and see how it goes. From their perspective, I am out of contract, they have my money and probably little obligation at this stage. As he put it, no one ever asked for what I asked for. Nonsense.

It's an eye opener. I learned what I want from a system though, I want to be able to use it. Costly mistake but I will be happy to share my experience with phonewatch with anyone that asks me from now on.

A report of my experience might be amusing to others in the media too. A premium priced charge for a sub par product and service.

Ill write up something and see how it goes.

kub

'The Oracle'.....😆, with the sort of arrogance that guy is portraying I reckon he would only be to delighted to put it in writing, as it will sooth his ego.

KoolKid

What arrogance from a lad who is basically fobbing you off with a lot of lies.
I would do 2 things.
Call back and ask to speak with his supervisor and make a complaint regarding his manner and about him giving you false information.
Start the process again and put the request in writing.
Actually, 3 things...
Call Joe Duffy, or at least threaten it.

amadablam

KoolKid wrote: »

What arrogance from a lad who is basically fobbing you off with a lot of lies.
I would do 2 things.
Call back and ask to speak with his supervisor and make a complaint regarding his manner and about him giving you false information.
Start the process again and put the request in writing.
Actually, 3 things...
Call Joe Duffy, or at least threaten it.

Thanks lads, I'll be going further and had planned on writing a complaint today but...

Yesterday I got a text message from phonewatch as part of a customer service satisfaction survey and I scored is very dissatisfied.

Today I got a call asking why I was dissatisfied.

I went through all the above, explained the three responses I had from customer service and how the last one was arrogant and unhelpful.

Guy gave a list of excuses as to why the tech guy didn't want the pir offline.

My response was that in a problem encountered between two parties, a compromise should be able to be found and that it was their way or no way and I don't accept that. Also got that they were acting in my interest security wise by not disabling the pir. I said that you have now forced me to disarm my alarm as they can't configure it correctly.

Nor do I accept that what I am asking for is unreasonable and that if it was, could it be possible that it is beyond the technical capabilities of the system installed.

Finally he asked what I was going to do. I explained I was looking for a new system provider.

Went through a few of the issues where they haven't lived up to their advertised services.

An engineer visit to inspect the house was offered and I got the 'normally we charge' pitch which I replied that they were sending it, I didn't request it so wouldn't be accepting a charge.

He is coming this afternoon so I will update this later.

Excuse typos but I am on my phone.

kub

Also got that they were acting in my interest security wise .

Pity they were not like that on day 1.

KoolKid

They are acting in the interests of your security?
Did you get a copy of the risk accesment survey that should be carried out prior to a system being designed to suit your needs.?
If they are so concerned about your security why do they not recommend perimeter protection which is considered the norm across the industry.?
Did you get an answer as to whether it is possible on this system to give the end user access to basic functions like inhibiting a zone?
If it's not capable of such basic features it's not fit for purpose IMHO.

amadablam

KoolKid wrote: »

They are acting in the interests of your security?
Did you get a copy of the risk accesment survey that should be carried out prior to a system being designed to suit your needs.?
If they are so concerned about your security why do they not recommend perimeter protection which is considered the norm across the industry.?
Did you get an answer as to whether it is possible on this system to give the end user access to basic functions like inhibiting a zone?
If it's not capable of such basic features it's not fit for purpose IMHO.

Met the Engineer on site at my house a while ago and I explained the issues.

He went and had a look around and straight away moved the PIR to a better location, issue solved, sort of.

Now in fairness this guy was very nice and helpful and I explained the conversations I'd had with PW yesterday and he was just shaking his head.

I asked why I had been told that I could transfer monitoring to another company when everyone else says the system is locked to PW's needs.

He said the system is made for them to provide security that used to be financially out of reach for most people, affordable.

I asked why it was so restrictive for the end user and he said the features are limited as per above so that the system is easily offered at a good price and good protection.

Made the point that to the majority of users requiring flexibility that Phonewatch is too restrictive and he said that most users dont want flexibility. Im a minority apparently

Also said to him that by fitting more sensors on this system I am further restricting the flexibility to keep my home safe.

From what I can gather, the system is not designed with flexibility in mind.

The panel is locked down and everything has to be programmed by terminal.

As for them being able to access the camera when not armed, he said they cant but I found that dubious considering they can see heat/fire/smoke etc. Id doubt the camera function is completely inoperable. Then again I am no expert and the Oracle has already proven me to be wrong.

you cant have more than two options: partial or full alarm and if you want a room outside of those options to be flexible, leave a sensor out and place it in the entry area/hall.

Not suitable for me unfortunately but I have a temp fix to a long term problem today.

Im going to see what I can do next and see what system I can afford to upgrade to, yes upgrade to. Because as far as I can see the only way you can downgrade this system is to have no monitoring and if you dont pay them you get that downgrade for Free!

Anyone thinking of Phonewatch, hope you read this thread and dont lock yourself into a system of hardware that is not flexible unless inflexibility is what you want from you system.

Apparently I have been told by Phonewatch that this system is what most users want, however, I'll leave that for them to decide.

KoolKid

Its seems to me they are brainwashing all their staff with the same speel.
So many more false statements here

He said the system is made for them to provide security that used to be financially out of reach for most people, affordable.

I asked why it was so restrictive for the end user and he said the features are limited as per above so that the system is easily offered at a good price and good protection.

Made the point that to the majority of users requiring flexibility that Phonewatch is too restrictive and he said that most users dont want flexibility. Im a minority apparently

A system with only 4 PiRs & 1 contact was never financially out of reach of most people.:eek:
Most people require part sets with flexibility to omit other zones when needed.
I could go on & on but the unfortunate part of it all is many people are blinded by the name.

kub

Blinded by the name is a very good description alright

amadablam

kub wrote: »

Blinded by the name is a very good description alright

Well, I was blind, but now I can see couldnt resist that..................... Im not happy with my experience and intend to get a proper system installed soon as I can can afford it. Im just annoyed by the bad choice I made because I was in a hurry and took a recommendation from someone in work. Lesson learned.

kub

There are plenty out there who are or will regret the same thing.
Just for the future, get onto at least 3 local installers, who are PSA licensed,they will present you with system design proposals and costs so at least you will be able now to make an informed decision. Of course also any installer can connect your alarm to any of the professional monitoring stations up and down this country.
By all means if you need any assistance in the future, you know where we are.

KoolKid

Here's a question...
If you have no access to the user menu how do you grant engineer access???

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

Here's a question...
If you have no access to the user menu how do you grant engineer access???

Now that is an interesting one, that is part of EN50131 is it not?