BANGERNOMICS (sub2k) of the week/day

unkel

ba_barabus wrote: »

I'm pretty certain they stopped fitting the unbreakable Izusu 'E' engine before that.

From a quick google, Opel bought the rights to this 4EE1 engine from Isuzu. Then they further developed it. It is now made in Poland and is still fitted to Opel cars. Opel now call it the 4EE2 engine (or the Circle L engine)

Honda buys a version of this engine from Opel for use in their cars too!

Alfa Romeo using Opel engines, Honda using Opel engines, what's next?

JohnBoy26

unkel wrote: »

From a quick google, Opel bought the rights to this 4EE1 engine from Isuzu. Then they further developed it. It is now made in Poland and is still fitted to Opel cars. Opel now call it the 4EE2 engine (or the Circle L engine)

Honda buys a version of this engine from Opel for use in their cars too!

Alfa Romeo using Opel engines, Honda using Opel engines, what's next?

Honda don't use Opel or Isuzu engines. They used the 1.7 diesel izusu briefly in the 02-06 hatchback civic. Afterwards they used their own honda developed engine and continue to use honda developed diesels to the present day.

unkel

Ah I see what I dug up was a bit outdated. Thanks for the correction!

Interesting all the same that Honda used an Opel engine. I guess that was back when Honda themselves had never made a diesel engine yet.

alias no.9

unkel wrote: »

Ah I see what I dug up was a bit outdated. Thanks for the correction!

Interesting all the same that Honda used an Opel engine. I guess that was back when Honda themselves had never made a diesel engine yet.

Honda used the Rover L series before they used the Opel/Isuzu lump

JohnBoy26

alias no.9 wrote: »

Honda used the Rover L series before they used the Opel/Isuzu lump

Afaik they used it only for a brief period before they replaced it with a 1.5 Eco vtec(petrol)

They also used a Peugeot diesel engine in the concerto.

JohnBoy26

unkel wrote: »

Ah I see what I dug up was a bit outdated. Thanks for the correction!

Interesting all the same that Honda used an Opel engine. I guess that was back when Honda themselves had never made a diesel engine yet.

They've used diesels from other manufacturers in some of their cars before they went and developed their own. Most of their cars were petrol in those days though. They didn't really go into diesel in a big way until the mid 00's when they launched their own 2.2 cdti engine and it's dtec successors.

colm_mcm

Honda did a badge-engineered Isuzu Trooper (called the Horizon), and a redone Isuzu MU/frontera (called the Passport) so there would have been a link already.

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Afaik they used it only for a brief period before they replaced it with a 1.5 Eco vtec(petrol)

They also used a Peugeot diesel engine in the concerto.

Far as I know, the concerto diesels were just rovers with Honda badges. As in they didn't have the usual Honda interiors or lights etc.

bear1

I'm almost sure that opel were using Alfa jtd engines and not the other way round.

unkel

bear1 wrote: »

I'm almost sure that opel were using Alfa jtd engines and not the other way round.

For the diesels indeed. The petrols in the Alfas are Opels though

bear1

unkel wrote: »

For the diesels indeed. The petrols in the Alfas are Opels though

Didn't know that. Even the v6?

unkel

Yup. The last of the legendary Alfa Romeo Busso V6 engines were made about 10 years ago. Busso himself died shortly after.

bear1

unkel wrote: »

Yup. The last of the legendary Alfa Romeo Busso V6 engines were made about 10 years ago. Busso himself died shortly after.

No wonder the v6 in the 159/brera was considered a bit meh compared to the legendary v6 of the 156/166/75/164/166

ba_barabus

unkel wrote: »

From a quick google, Opel bought the rights to this 4EE1 engine from Isuzu. Then they further developed it.

By further deveoped it, they also mean made it less reliable.

unkel wrote: »

Alfa Romeo using Opel engines, Honda using Opel engines, what's next?

Alfa and Opel use Fiat diesel engines, sadly some spaz mated the 1.9 to a GM 6 speed gearbox that likes to self destruct.

Opps just spotted someone got there before me. I think Alfa reworked some of the petrol engines and IIRC the 3.2 V6 originated at the Holden factory at Fisherman's Bend Australia before being flown to the US for a strip down and then it was reassembled with some Alfa sparkle in Italy. makes little sense but then what does for Alfa.

unkel

ba_barabus wrote: »

By further deveoped it, they also mean made it less reliable.

Hard to avoid that. The engine needed to meet modern emissions standards, so turbo, direct injection, common rail, it also has a lot more power than when Isuzu made it.

We'll never see the like of the Mercedes 2.5l N/A diesel again, an engine that easily does a million km with just oil changes

ba_barabus wrote: »

Alfa and Opel use Fiat diesel engines

That's semantics. The first common rail diesel engine went into the Alfa 156. And yes, Alfa is fully owned by FIAT. In fact FIAT developed common rail initially (in the 60s iirc) but they couldn't get it ready for production cars. They sold their technology to Bosch (who did finish it) and everybody has been paying license money to Bosch ever since

colm_mcm

First common rail went into fiat marea no?

joujoujou

Bangers anyone?

================

2003 avensis verso, slurry powered 7seater, 1999 € asked.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-avensis-verso-diesel-7-seater-ne/10847590

Ugly as hell, but made in japan.

And seller's not sure what's the real mileage.

bear1

colm_mcm wrote: »

First common rail went into fiat marea no?

Nope the 156 when unveiled in 97 was the first to have the jtd engine which was the simplest form of the now multijet engine. The marea/bravo/brava started to use them in 98. I believe before that they were just td.
Originally the common rail engine was put into a 2.4 156

ba_barabus

Bangernomics + JTD+ Alfa

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/alfa-romeo-156-jtd-turbo-diesel-ncted/10484006?offset=6

Long Time Lurker

Future classic.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/view/10845331

ba_barabus

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Future classic.

I hope not

Cortina_MK_IV

That Alfa reg is ringing bells, was it on before or am I have a deja vu moment?

bear1

Cortina_MK_IV wrote: »

That Alfa reg is ringing bells, was it on before or am I have a deja vu moment?

It was on a few days ago, don't believe the 60mpg part though unless he's driving down a hill constantly.

For Forks Sake

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Future classic.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/view/10845331

In what parallel universe?

Red Kev

€2250 with a new NCT. Nice cars, parts are cheap, great handling. Anybody else remember when these were used on the Irish driving licence to represent a car?

http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/bmw-520-e28/10814836?offset=4




I posted that blue 156 a couple of weeks ago. Strange that it hasn't been snapped up, I guess the Passat is king in that price class and category.

bear1

That beemer is some ugly yoke. If it was the saloon version then id say its a nice looking car.

Long Time Lurker

For Forks Sake wrote: »

In what parallel universe?

Do you not think? I would have said it was nailed on as a future classic given how much it was hated (and still is ) by BMW purists, how quirky it is and the fact that these factors are going to lead to its impending rarity in years to come. All said they're great craic to drive. Isn't that the point of a BMW. Nah I'm sticking to my guns here. Good compacts will make more money than good 320 saloons 20 yyears from now. You heard it here first.

Markcheese

Long Time Lurker wrote:

Chancy .....

Why do you reckon that ? Looks decent -

mickdw

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

I heard some unscrupulous owners might tax a machine like this for 3 months, chance it for 6 then give it a new owner. Repeat process. Now I certainly would t advocate such behavior but I've heard it happens.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/view/10824532

I'm actually looking out for an audi 100 of that vintage. We had one when I was young and I would like to get a good one now to keep. I'm looking for a silver 2.0L petrol.
Nearly impossible to find though in good condition and not messed with.
Even in uk, there are none for sale.

acronym Chilli

ba_barabus wrote: »

Bangernomics + JTD+ Alfa

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/alfa-romeo-156-jtd-turbo-diesel-ncted/10484006?offset=6

Same car as this advert: https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/alfa-romeo-156-jtd-turbo-diesel-ncted/10731811
Second advert has been updated more recently, but even that's over 2 weeks old so maybe not so current. Not sure why it's advertised twice with/without spoiler. I might be interested in the car, just a long way away to go and see it (I'll be there with work at end of month, if it's still around).

selectamatic

https://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/1998-ford-mondeo-ghia-2-0-petrol/10821901

Very long NCT, what appears to be genuine sub 80k miles, fords very good 2.0 engine and the body appears to be tidy.
I've always liked the look of the mk2 mondeo's ever since I seen a very clean one in England slightly lowered on 5 spoke cosworth alloys and it's not often ya see the 2.0 for sale in Ireland they're generally either 1.6i or 1.8td. That and the fact that it could probably be got for close to 500 makes me feel it'd be a sound buy for someone.

Toyotafanboi

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/alfa-romeo-145-1-4-ts-sport/10865752

cant see that hanging around.

full service history, looks tidy, 6 months test and 6 weeks tax.

jimgoose

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/alfa-romeo-145-1-4-ts-sport/10865752

cant see that hanging around.

full service history, looks tidy, 6 months test and 6 weeks tax.

That engine bay is gorgeous. :cool:

Toyotafanboi

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/ford/10865637

clearly he's hit a deer with it or something, but 5 months test, €250 quid. bit of duct tape over that crack in the bumper and drive on.

166man

You're finding some good bangernomics there days TFB...


And not just because you're posting Alfas lol!

Duke O Smiley

http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/lancia-dedra-1-8l-new-nct/10870581?offset=27


Now heres a nice smoker for someone. Enough tax to see you through Christmas and a bit longer, years test, not the norm, comfy looking seats...all for under a grand. Bargain imo

Ded_Zebra

That is absolutely wonderful!!!!

Long Time Lurker

Ah the lancia dedra. Fiat uno switch gear, 1960s engine, 1980s Italian build quality and delusions of being a BMW competitor. Funnier than Rover trying to be Merc. Unique? Yes. Fun? Probably. Ultimately shiote all the same. Think Fiat Tempra with a wood dash :-)

I've probably awoken some deep buried dragons with that comment. Fully expect the defenders of the realm to turn up shortly with more varsity than an Audi jacket wearing 99 felt spec Golf TDI owner being all protective of VAG products.

bear1

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Ah the lancia dedra. Fiat uno switch gear, 1960s engine, 1980s Italian build quality and delusions of being a BMW competitor. Funnier than Rover trying to be Merc. Unique? Yes. Fun? Probably. Ultimately shiote all the same. Think Fiat Tempra with a wood dash :-)

I've probably awoken some deep buried dragons with that comment. Fully expect the defenders of the realm to turn up shortly with more varsity than an Audi jacket wearing 99 felt spec Golf TDI owner being all protective of VAG products.

Jesus...

Brian Scan

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Ah the lancia dedra. Fiat uno switch gear, 1960s engine, 1980s Italian build quality and delusions of being a BMW competitor. Funnier than Rover trying to be Merc. Unique? Yes. Fun? Probably. Ultimately shiote all the same. Think Fiat Tempra with a wood dash :-)

I've probably awoken some deep buried dragons with that comment. Fully expect the defenders of the realm to turn up shortly with more varsity than an Audi jacket wearing 99 felt spec Golf TDI owner being all protective of VAG products.

What is "varsity"?

Long Time Lurker

Brian Scan wrote: »

What is "varsity"?

Its a new word my phone invented. Do with it what you will :-)

Brian Scan

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Its a new word my phone invented. Do with it what you will :-)

Unpredictable text. Don't you just love it?

Long Time Lurker

Someone posted a Lancia Dedra in here. Christ if you're not necessarily in Bangernomics territory before you buy it you most certainly will once you've owned it for a while.

There was actually genuine good will towards the the brand and despite many a previous flop and many a so called revolutionary car to rescue the brand over the years people still remained patient. The Dedra in my opinion was the straw that broke the camels back.

So utterly underwhelming it was positively nauseous. That and the plastics were (and I'm not saying this for effect) fooking horrific and the fit and finish wasn't what you'd call Suzuki troubling never mind ze Germans. It was based on a Tipo, not a bad car but not a paragon of reliability either. The idea that they marketed it as a 3 series rival is pure comedy in todays terms. It would have been like Ford making a car called a Ghia in 1992, challenging the Audi 80 and basing it on the Escort. That pretty much sums up what a Dedra was. Not a single redeemable feature. The modern day Morris Marina.

Duke O Smiley

I think the above example is probably aimed more towards the enthusiast now as with most Lancias. Its retro cool and from a defunct marque and I only posted it because I know there are a few of us here (Ded_Zebra etc) that are partial to a Lancia! Its a bit of fun tbh

I have no experience of a Dedra but I had a Y10 last year and it was one of the coolest and well able little city cars I've ever had. It could take Dublin > Rosslare daily in it's stride comfortably and faultlessly. It was a great car, it had electric rear quarter windows and everything

unkel

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

That pretty much sums up what a Dedra was. Not a single redeemable feature. The modern day Morris Marina.

I'm trying but I find it hard to disagree with a good bit of what you said there

I still do have time for Lancia, not so much for the Dedra but on a bangernomics budget I'd go this if I could find one:



Old skool looks too, but there is elegance and style there. Amazingly luxurious interior. Relatively modern new legendary 5-pot or my choice, an auto 3l 24V Busso.

CianRyan

I'm thinking of picking up a DC1 as a daily/ long term project once my Mazda is on the road.
Won't be for a long time yet but they seem like a good deal, much better than a Micra anyway...

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/10754032

CJhaughey

CianRyan wrote: »

I'm thinking of picking up a DC1 as a daily/ long term project once my Mazda is on the road.
Won't be for a long time yet but they seem like a good deal, much better than a Micra anyway...

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/10754032

What are the 1.6 units like? Not too weedy compared with the 1.8?

CianRyan

I think it's a D16, not the B16 in the Civic's. If I'm right it'll have 130bhp and they only weight about 1000kg or a little more so while no Type R it won't be a bore either.

I'll do some googling.

selectamatic

CianRyan wrote: »

I'm thinking of picking up a DC1 as a daily/ long term project once my Mazda is on the road.
Won't be for a long time yet but they seem like a good deal, much better than a Micra anyway...

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/10754032

They're not a bad car alright decent ish performance from the sohc engine it's the gearbox that kills them (most of Hondas sohc powered cars have gears that are too long) they were designed this way for economy. From what I hear the box outta Irish 1.4ek's livens them up a good bit and a lightened flywheel always helps. Compared to a 1.6ils civic coupe they're a much nicer car but insurance is the drawback for younger drivers.

Edit: the d16 engines are the best for turbo ing too some interesting builds stateside with good power figures. A well built turbo teg dc1 would certainly have a unique appeal. And the longer gears in the box are well suited to turbo applications.
Edit 2: forgot to mention not all dc1's are vtec. The vtec ones are more powerful than the non vtec ones.

Long Time Lurker

Lots of life left in this one.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/view/10747355

Cortina_MK_IV

He (Volvo owner) needs to set the clock on his camera. I thought they were 6 year old photos but the last one with tax/NCT discs is a new photo but shows 01/05/2009.