Will Fianna Fail pull it off one more time?

jetsonx

Do you think Fianna Fail will pull it off one more time?

Lets face it, even with incontrovertible evidence that FF are corrupt to the core history has shown us that if you offer a nice enough bounty to the Irish electorate they will vote for you. (Whether this is out of naivety or self-gain, I'm not so sure) But one thing is sure, FF know how to press the hot buttons of the electorate. No doubt, FF will offer the electorate all sorts of goodies and concessions in the next election but will the Irish fall for it this time? (just like they did in 1979, 1992, 1997 and 2007)

BoJack Horseman

Yes.

Just not sure if they will be ahead of SF or not.
If so, Michael Martin will be the next taoiseach.

newacc2015

jetsonx wrote: »

Do you think Fianna Fail will pull it off one more time?

Lets face it, even with incontrovertible evidence that FF are corrupt to the core history has shown us that if you offer a nice enough bounty to the Irish electorate they will vote for you. (Whether this is out of naivety or self-gain, I'm not so sure) But one thing is sure, FF know how to press the hot buttons of the electorate. No doubt, FF will offer the electorate all sorts of goodies and concessions in the next election but will the Irish fall for it this time? (just like they did in 1979, 1992, 1997 and 2007)

Any examples of Corruption in the last 10 years? People harping on about corruption in Ireland, is like people harping on about Corruption in the Former USSR. Yes 30 years ago it was common. Now countries like Romania, are doing an excellent job at combating corruption. There is very little indication of corruption in modern FF.

I dont get the angry towards FF being corrupted decades ago. Yet people will dismiss that the IRA killed dozens of innocent people, trafficked weapons/drugs and destroyed the lives of thousands. Yet people can easily forget this. The IRA made life in London horrific for several years.

Irish people need to look up the definition of corruption. You will see Ireland, isnt that corrupt. Giving people what they want is merely politics.

Godge

newacc2015 wrote: »

Any examples of Corruption in the last 10 years? People harping on about corruption in Ireland, is like people harping on about Corruption in the Former USSR. Yes 30 years ago it was common. Now countries like Romania, are doing an excellent job at combating corruption. There is very little indication of corruption in modern FF.

I dont get the angry towards FF being corrupted decades ago. Yet people will dismiss that the IRA killed dozens of innocent people, trafficked weapons/drugs and destroyed the lives of thousands. Yet people can easily forget this. The IRA made life in London horrific for several years.

Irish people need to look up the definition of corruption. You will see Ireland, isnt that corrupt. Giving people what they want is merely politics.

There are unanswered questions about Micheal Martin for a start.


http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/11/so-why-did-that-money-end-up-in-your-wifes-account-mr-martin/

Manach

Well to make it so, it would take a sitting government to plump the depths of arrogance, incompetance, holier than thou moralising (J. Burton/Shatter), and a ham-fisted attempt to bribe the electorate with their own tax money - but fair to FG/Lab they have pulled it off.

daveyeh

Cue SSIA 2.

howamidifferent

daveyeh wrote: »

Cue SSIA 2.

Hopefully. Wouldnt mind a few free euro..

Sam Russell

The problem with the SSIA scheme was: 1. the bonus was paid with the deposit, that is, monthly; 2. the money was deposited in the bank not NTMA; 3. there was no check on where the money came from - already saved money ie existing deposits.

The big mistake made was the closing of Postbank. It should have been transferred to NTMA for managing the deposits with An Post managing the front office side. It would make a very good vehicle for operating a new SSIA scheme as it would improve the viability of An Post and allow An Post a method of handling social security payments as non-cash.

_Kaiser_

As unpalatable as the option is, I'd rather see FF re-elected than have another 5 years of Enda and Co.. They've shown themselves to be actually WORSE in Government than their predecessors

I don't buy the guff/spin about them leading the so-called "recovery" either, most of which is due to external factors and FDI policies that are around a lot longer than they are. Just as they did nothing beyond throw out the mandate they were elected on and implement the policies of others when they got into power, they've pretty much sat back and prayed that things would improve which thanks to the circular nature of our economic system was going to happen eventually regardless of who was in power in Ireland.

Homelessness and people being priced out into the countryside (again!), the lack of reform or transparency in Government or the public sector, increased rural crime thanks to the cutbacks to AGS, dilution of our democratic process through the railroading of legislation and refusal to debate or justify themselves to the electorate, and of course disasters like the IW mess are the legacy FG/LAB are leaving this country.

But just as it was previously, so too will this election be a case of a jaded electorate trying to pick out the least worst option from a sea of one-issue Independents (who may or may not be FF/FG castoffs in disguise), Renua (FG lite), SF and the AAA fantasists, and of course the Big 2 - where the only real difference is if you'd prefer a weak populist holdover from the last regime, or an arrogant puppet who goes into hiding at every opportunity and has been living off the public purse for decades with very little to justify it.

But, given those frankly piss-poor choices, I'd rather FF because at least you know exactly what you'll be getting, and if you're clever about it can use their vote-buying spendathons to prepare for the next inevitable crash.. in FG's case that only works if you're already at the top end or a well connected offshore businessman. The rest of us will be crucified with taxes and charges and told its for our own good - very Charlie-esque really anyway!

Potatoeman

I still can't believe Bertie got re-elected after what came out during the tribunal. Lots of regional voting and 'our fella looks after us'. People didn't care as long as things were fine at the time.

Michael Martins half asses apology didn't show any sign of change in the party, they should have cleaned house.

I don't think FG are that great but they got an already broken country. It was too late for a bank bailout deal and commitments to cut had already been made. They seem to get blamed for lots of things that were in the pipes already. Not that they don't make their own ones.

jetsonx

Potatoeman wrote: »

I still can't believe Bertie got re-elected after what came out during the tribunal. Lots of regional voting and 'our fella looks after us'. People didn't care as long as things were fine at the time.

.

Yeah, it said a lot about the Irish electorate.

I would really hate to see Ireland fall into the greasy embrace of FF again.

Zubeneschamali

jetsonx wrote: »

Do you think Fianna Fail will pull it off one more time?

No, I am surprised to say that I don't think they will. I assumed that FG/Lab would clean up FFs mess and then get destroyed when people scuttle back to FF, same as usual.

But FG/Lab numbers are holding up, and maybe even improving. One soft budget, extraordinary growth, unemployment dropping, consumer confidence taking off...

I'm beginning to think Enda may get away with it.

jetsonx

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I assumed that FG/Lab would clean up FFs mess and then get destroyed when people scuttle back to FF, same as usual.

I thought this was going to happen too...Like a collective version of
Pavlov's dog the Irish electorate would associate FG with pain and hardship...they would associate FF with good times and prosperity. Thankfully the scuttle back to FF never happened....

Riskymove

jetsonx wrote: »

Do you think Fianna Fail will pull it off one more time?

what exactly do you mean?

In terms of the next election they will recover a bit and pick up some seats but I can't see them doing particularly well in Dublin which is core to their return to high numbers

There remains a chance of a FG/FF coalition but the recent gains by Government and the forthcoming budget should mean a FG/Labour re-election, possibly with some Independent support.

FreudianSlippers

IMO Martin and the others from the "old guard" of FF need to be removed before FF is truly fit for government again. I do think there are a lot of newer members who believe in the economic ideas of FF who are not a part of the systemic culture that existed previously. That systemic culture originates from an Ireland that no longer exists, but it certainly did in the 80s and 90s (and honestly forever before that as well).

eigrod

daveyeh wrote: »

Cue SSIA 2.

And a tax amnesty - haven't had one of those for a while.