How to keep dogs warm during winter in garden shed?

n1st

we have 2 schnauzers which will using the timber garden shed for the first time this winter.
How can I keep them warm?

They'll be sleeping inside the shed at nightime.

I'm thinking a heat lamp.
Is this required at all.

andreac

n1st wrote: »

we have 2 schnauzers which will using the timber garden shed for the first time this winter.
How can I keep them warm?

They'll be sleeping inside the shed at nightime.

I'm thinking a heat lamp.
Is this required at all.

Have they lived inside in previous winters? Is there a reason they have to sleep in the shed at night?

tk123

A friend of mine got a heat lamp recently for shed for her two dogs for during the day while she's at work (they're in at night)and they love it

dealornodeal23

n1st wrote: »

we have 2 schnauzers which will using the timber garden shed for the first time this winter.
How can I keep them warm?

They'll be sleeping inside the shed at nightime.

I'm thinking a heat lamp.
Is this required at all.

Why did you get dogs when you're going to be putting them out in the shed at nights I feel sorry for them. I have 2 dogs and a cat they are members of the family and we keep them in the house day and night

n1st

tk123 wrote: »

A friend of mine got a heat lamp recently for shed for her two dogs for during the day while she's at work (they're in at night)and they love it

Where did they get the lamp?

223vmax

They're more than capable of coping with sleeping in the shed at night. Only on exceptionally cold nights would I provide heat. No doubt people on here will question your morals by even saying your going to bed them in a shed...:rolleyes:

It's no problem to the dogs, I do it, lots of people do it. And don't let anyone suggest its cruel!!

You should be able to get an infrared lamp from your local hardware store. Just keep adequate distance between animal and lamp!

dealornodeal23

223vmax wrote: »

They're more than capable of coping with sleeping in the shed at night. Only on exceptionally cold nights would I provide heat. No doubt people on here will question your morals by even saying your going to bed them in a shed...:rolleyes:

It's no problem to the dogs, I do it, lots of people do it. And don't let anyone suggest its cruel!!

You should be able to get an infrared lamp from your local hardware store. Just keep adequate distance between animal and lamp!

God help your poor dogs

223vmax

dealornodeal23 wrote: »

God help your poor dogs

They are dogs and as such are animals. They're designed to cope with living outside! Not a fully furnished/heated home...

I don't like the idea of dogs being kept in the home but each to their own....Perfectly fine to keep dogs outside, its not cruel!

DBB

dealornodeal23 wrote: »

God help your poor dogs

dealornodeal23, do not post in this thread again.
You don't have to agree with other posters, but you will not use this forum to make the judgy comments you've made so far.
Thanks,
DBB

DBB

223vmax wrote: »

No doubt people on here will question your morals by even saying your going to bed them in a shed...:rolleyes:

This is the Animals and Pets forum, so yes, you will get people disagreeing with dogs being kept outside, and there is plenty of evidence to support the damage that can be done by isolating dogs in this way. However, this information is not always delivered in the most acceptable of ways, as we have seen already.
That aside, it is not okay, 223vmax, to rock up to this forum and post in a mocking tone about the users here, rolley-eyed smiley included.
Give it a rest.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Polar wizard adventure

Just so long as they have something warm to lie on. A bit of 50mm insulation board under their rug or bed should do it.

n1st

I'll have a look in Woodies for the heat lamp, B+Q didnt have one but he did tell me that they are still the most efficient.

They had 3 beds and 5 blankets and a dogflap to get in an out. I'm just wondering how to keep the temp up on the colder nights.
They'll be indoors on frosty nights.

223vmax

n1st wrote: »

I'll have a look in Woodies for the heat lamp, B+Q didnt have one but he did tell me that they are still the most efficient.

They had 3 beds and 5 blankets and a dogflap to get in an out. I'm just wondering how to keep the temp up on the colder nights.
They'll be indoors on frosty nights.

Might be as handy to get a bail of straw and make a bed from that. Easy cleaned etc... Just make sure that your heat source is safe over what ever bedding you choose. A 250W infra red lamp will work fine but they're a bit heavy on electricity use.

sillysmiles

I'm not sure how easy it would be to get, but would it be possible to get some sort of thermometer that records the lowest & highest temperatures - that way you could see exactly how cold it is getting in the shed at night and how much of an effect the insulation etc is having?

seamus

Depends on the shed. Your bog-standard timber shed that most people get with overlapping rough-cut panels, are damp and draughty. Fine over the summer, perhaps even preferable to sleeping inside, but very uncomfortable in the winter.

But you can also get high-quality sheds that are suitable to be used as an outdoor room like an office or gym. These would be fine in the winter once you keep the temperature up.

In the former case, if you're insistent on putting the dogs outside, then maybe get a small kennel to put inside the shed. This will ensure that they can snuggle up tight and keep warm, protected from the colder shed.

If it's a good shed, then an oil-filled electric radiator attached to a timer would be good enough to keep the chill out of the shed. These usually have built-in thermostats so will turn on and off as necessary overnight.

tk123

n1st wrote: »

Where did they get the lamp?

I think in one of the hardware stores? I'll see if I can find out. Snugglesafe pad(s) might be worth a look as well - you just microwave it and it stays warm all night.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SnuggleSafe-Microwave-Wireless-Heatpad-Fleece/dp/B0014LJKUA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442410822&sr=8-1&keywords=snuggle+safe+pad

cocker5

http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_beds_baskets/thermal_pads/129427

these guys are good too.... would be great in conjunction with the lamp

http://www.pet-bliss.ie/acatalog/Dog_Heating.html

http://www.perfectkennelheater.com/

take a look at the link above - may be of some use

n1st

On the colder days last year I left a hot water bottle in their beds.
The shed it above average.
I might also insulate the area where they sleep and even partly cover the front, sort of making a insulated inbuilt kennel.

kathleen37

I was going to suggest straw or hay - lots so they can really burrow in. A bale would be excellent, as long as it's not packed so tight they can't get in it. (Best to have something round the outside, or it may just collapse and be messy. Dogs wouldn't midn that, but it may be annoying for you to have hay all over the place) Also with the proviso that there should be insulation under anything they are sleeping on. Cold will travel up through cold floors.

As long as they are dry - they should be fine in the shed, unless, as it's been said, the temperature really drops. Then I think something extra will be needed for them

Capercaillie

A dog jacket would help. During the winter if I bring the dog to work and he's in the car I put his jacket on him. He's always nice and warm.

n1st

Capercaillie wrote: »

A dog jacket would help. During the winter if I bring the dog to work and he's in the car I put his jacket on him. He's always nice and warm.

The have jackets too.

spurious

Have them up off the ground a bit - on a pallet maybe.

Pac2015

For me these are not the type of dogs to be sleeping outside the kitchen would be grand for them with a bed so they don't have access to go anywhere else in the house at night but if you are going to have them sleep outside I would definitely get them a heat lamp some good plastic beds that you can put warm bedding in and if you even got some insulted kennels for inside the shed that would even better.

I would ignore the person saying don't provide heat unless its cold they are dogs they can cope this simply is not true especially for these type of dogs.
As someone stated if you have a barna shed these dont hold any heat you could do what I have done for my stray cats that I look after I set up insulated kennels inside the barna shed with bedding like fleece type ones and I have them up off the floor of the shed but if my cats want to come inside I let them and I have beds in the kitchen for them too.
Dogs and cats are different but you will know if they are happy in a shed.

Pac2015

Can I just ask why is it that you want them sleeping outside ?

MartyMcFly84

I don't understand why people would have an issue with dogs sleeping outside?

There will be two of them so there will not be issues with loneliness

I suppose it depends on the breed but most dogs would be bred for outdoor living. Having dog in living in a heated house in relatively new in the human/dog evolution. Perhaps its is more unfair to select dog breeds for fashion rather than those who can comfortably live in an Irish climate.

DBB

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

I suppose it depends on the breed but most dogs would be bred for outdoor living. Having dog in living in a heated house in relatively new in the human/dog evolution. Perhaps its is more unfair to select dog breeds for fashion rather than those who can comfortably live in an Irish climate.

There seems to be an enduring myth that dogs were bred to be outside. One of the major habitat changes that occurred over the course of dog domestication was that they started to be kept inside with their humans... There are ancient manuscripts from the middle east, where you could say it's plenty warm for the dogs to live outside, which strongly advocate keeping your dog in your home with you. These manuscripts were written by huntsmen 6000 years ago (yes... Six thousand, long before the proliferation of breeds over the past couple of hundred years). Their advice was based on very, very sound principles, based not on the question "will the dog be warm (or cool?) enough", but "will the dog be mentally healthy?"
Which leads me to counter the argument that "dogs are meant to live outside"... Well, they're not, as such. But not because of their thermoregulatory abilities (or lack thereof), but because a dog's mental wellbeing is best served when they spend maximal time in the company of their humans... Some dogs are happy to stay with other dogs, but for the vast, vast majority of dogs, nothing comes close to spending time with their humans. Dogs have been bred to form close social bonds with humans. That has been proven by reams of research.
And that's where the problem really lies with keeping dogs outside. We can cater for thermoregulation, but having a dog live outside the home makes it far more likely that the dog simply is not going to get enough human social contact.
There are exceptions which I've often mentioned in other threads.... Working dogs, and by this I mainly mean farm dogs, get loads of human contact throughout their day despite living outside the house. There are a few other examples of same in different environments.
Now, I'm not saying that the following is the case at all for the op... If dogs must sleep outside, but have plenty of human interaction throughout the day, I'm okay with that from a welfare point of view. It wouldn't be for me, but I'm okay with it.
However, there is a terrible, damaging attitude amongst Irish people that it's okay to have the dog outside all the time, with very little human interaction. These are the dogs kept out in the garden, that might get a walk and a bit of play or training... But not much meaningful social contact otherwise. A few hours a day at best. This is simply not good enough, and dogs absolutely suffer under such circumstances... Just because the symptoms are harder to spot than shivering in a cold dog, does not diminish the awful welfare of dogs that are kept outside in solitude, or even with another dog. Indeed, you might be surprised at how often there are un-spotted political problems going on between dogs in 2+ dog households where the dogs are left to their own devices for long hours throughout the day... Bullying, fighting, resource guarding. Dogs that live outside with not enough social contact with people are almost invariably less well-trained, and suffer from behavioural problems far more commonly than dogs that live inside or otherwise spend plenty of time with their humans.

borderlinemeath

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

I don't understand why people would have an issue with dogs sleeping outside?

I wouldn't have an issue with them sleeping outside, provided they get plenty of human companionship during the day/evening time, be that inside or outside. Dogs need human interaction, not isolation in a garden. The one thing that I would always be wary of is that dogs can easily be stolen if they sleep outdoors. In the OPs case schnauzers are a particularly desirable breed and could be easily targeted by thieves. My garden is particularly secure, but I would never leave my dogs sleeping outside, no matter how warm it is. I'd rather not wake up to find them stolen.

There will be two of them so there will not be issues with loneliness

Having other dogs as companions only works for some dogs, as stated, they thrive on human interaction and stimulation from their human family, they will play/interact with their canine companion but they can't rely on them for all their mental stimulation. Unless they're littermates and suffer from littermate syndrome and that's a whole new world of trouble that you don't want.

I suppose it depends on the breed but most dogs would be bred for outdoor living. Having dog in living in a heated house in relatively new in the human/dog evolution.

It's actually not, but it is relatively recent in Ireland, dogs have been sleeping with their human families all over the world for far longer, from apartments to igloos and every other type of dwelling in between.

Perhaps its is more unfair to select dog breeds for fashion rather than those who can comfortably live in an Irish climate.

Pretty much every breed of dog can live in the temperate Irish climate, we have occasional hot summer spells and occasional very cold winter spells. Once they have a dry, sheltered area if they are to sleep outside and enough human interaction during the day. There's always breeds that need help to regulate their temperature, but that's mainly due to bad breeding - ie brachycephalic breeds such as pugs and bulldogs and also dogs with minimal body fat such as greyhounds and whippets. Certain toy breeds that have hair rather than fur, ie yorkies would also need to be protected from the cold and should sleep indoors rather than outdoors.

ganmo

Piglet heat pad...probably cheaper on the lecky than the heat lamp

runawaybishop

n1st wrote: »

I'll have a look in Woodies for the heat lamp, B+Q didnt have one but he did tell me that they are still the most efficient.

They had 3 beds and 5 blankets and a dogflap to get in an out. I'm just wondering how to keep the temp up on the colder nights.
They'll be indoors on frosty nights.

Woodies and b and q would be probably the most expensive place to buy anything like that. Go to the local co-op.

jimf

a fan heater attached to the roof where no cables are accessible for the dogs to chew on and operated by a frost stat would be my choice of heating an outdoor shed for dogs to sleep in

this can be set to operate when the inside temp in the shed drops to what you consider too cold for your dogs comfort

the advantage is it will come on and go off as the temp rise and drop in the shed

above plus a raised bed should be grand

fathead82

My dogs that sleep outside have a kennel each in the shed, each kennel has a thick rubber cow mat on the bottom, carpet over the cow mat and a good bed of straw over the carpet. I put a board across the front of each kennel to keep the straw in an keep draughts out. If your two dogs will share a bed, get them a kennel that will fit them both, they will keep each other warm.

Knine

fathead82 wrote: »

My dogs that sleep outside have a kennel each in the shed, each kennel has a thick rubber cow mat on the bottom, carpet over the cow mat and a good bed of straw over the carpet. I put a board across the front of each kennel to keep the straw in an keep draughts out. If your two dogs will share a bed, get them a kennel that will fit them both, they will keep each other warm.

I would not recommend using carpet at all. We had a tragic accident where the dog chewed it & the string unravelled & choked him. He was the type of dog that never normally chewed. Post mortem was carried out.

Pac2015

I think why people have a problem with dogs sleeping outside is because Ireland has such a high rate of animal abuse and people not looking after their animals correctly and you see reports of this all the time on social media so when someone comes on here and asks about their animals sleeping outside then people get concerned.
Personally I would not have my dog sleeping outside and she is a retreiver I let her sleep in the kitchen which is grand for her, I'll be honest I am in rescue and if someone said to me the dog would be sleeping outside I would not rehome to them simple as that.
The only dog I feel that is slightly different is Huskies / Malamutes why I say this is because I have seen some in homes that wont sleep inside and they prefer to sleep outside in a shed and then others like my brothers dog who refuses to sleep outside it all depends on that breed.
If the dogs are well cared for and kept warm in a shed and more importantly they are happy then I am sure these dogs will be okay but for me they are part of a family and should be in a house.
I always ask people when adopting will the dog have free run to come into the house / kitchen when it wants and also the back garden if they say no I said I cant adopt to you.

MartyMcFly84

There seems to be an equating "sleeping outside" with the animals being chained to the end of the garden and spending all of their time without human contact.

This extreme example is not what is being discussed and I think anyone with a bit of common sense knows this would be damaging to a social animal. We are discussing the dogs sleeping in a shed or kennel. Not out in the elements. A shed or kennel is just another room for them.

In most cases dogs will not be sleeping in the same room and bed as their owners. It is not harming in anyway for bed time to be in separate rooms, and if that room is a shed instead of utility room or kitchen i don't see any problem with that.

I am not against having dogs in the house at all (within reason) and do think it is important to build close relationships with them. But there is nothing wrong with having them sleep in a shed or kennel for a few hours.

223vmax

OP, did you get yourself a lamp/heater?

kylith

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

There seems to be an equating "sleeping outside" with the animals being chained to the end of the garden and spending all of their time without human contact.

This extreme example is not what is being discussed and I think anyone with a bit of common sense knows this would be damaging to a social animal. We are discussing the dogs sleeping in a shed or kennel. Not out in the elements. A shed or kennel is just another room for them.

In most cases dogs will not be sleeping in the same room and bed as their owners. It is not harming in anyway for bed time to be in separate rooms, and if that room is a shed instead of utility room or kitchen i don't see any problem with that.

I am not against having dogs in the house at all (within reason) and do think it is important to build close relationships with them. But there is nothing wrong with having them sleep in a shed or kennel for a few hours.

Indeed. When my dogs were sleeping outside they were still with me every moment I was awake and at home. They got no more socialisation when I started keeping them in at night because they slept in the living room.

MajorMax

223vmax wrote: »

Might be as handy to get a bail of straw and make a bed from that. Easy cleaned etc... Just make sure that your heat source is safe over what ever bedding you choose. A 250W infra red lamp will work fine but they're a bit heavy on electricity use.

I'd agree with 223vmax, straw is your best bet. It will keep them very warm, it's cheap, enviromentally friendly, easily cleaned and you don't have to worry about them getting accidentily burned

The heat lamp is the best idea. Have you covers to put on them in very frosty weather? I also use shredded paper bedding in winter as they can burrow down into it. It's on a raised bed that has a rubber mat base and a board in front to keep the paper on the bed. The best paper is the one you'd get from greyhound suppliers.

DBB

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

There seems to be an equating "sleeping outside" with the animals being chained to the end of the garden and spending all of their time without human contact.

This extreme example is not what is being discussed and I think oanyone with a bit of common sense knows this would be damaging to a social animal. We are discussing the dogs sleeping in a shed or kennel. Not out in the elements. A shed or kennel is just another room for them

As far as we know, the op is only enquiring about sleeping the dogs outside, on the assumption that the dogs will get plenty of social interaction during the day.
But just take a look at the number of posts in this thread that say variations of "dogs should not be inside the house", and "it's not cruel to keep dogs outside", and "dogs were bred to be outside"... None of these types of posts give any indication that the poster also means to add the condition "... But regardless, you should spend many hours interacting with your dog", or "regardless, bring your dog in anyway".
I think we know fine well that they give no regard to the lack of social contact that tends to happen when dogs are kept outside. Not always, but all-too-often.
I'm sure this will help explain why people here get upset and are doing such alleged "equating", because such stark posts are all too indicative of this Irish predisposition that it's ok to keep a dog in solitude in the garden.
Such posts only seem to deal with the fact that dogs will physically survive when kept outside, but no regard is given to their mental wellbeing. If such posts weren't so black and white, and the posters sought to clarify their position, it might mean that others don't get so upset with the message that's being put out there by them.

223vmax

The OP was only asking how he can keep his dogs warm in the shed at night. He's not asking for anyone's approval nor seeking advice on whether they should be kept outside.

MintyMagnum

I think I saw it in Lidl ad, an outdoor temp monitor, u can check the shed temp easily with that.

DBB

223vmax wrote: »

The OP was only asking how he can keep his dogs warm in the shed at night. He's not asking for anyone's approval nor seeking advice on whether they should be kept outside.

Thanks for the help with the forum moderation there 223vmax.
Ironically, it was your good self that helped to prompt further discussion on the topic of keeping dogs outside with your opening comment for which you were warned not to be making digs at other forum users.
The OP's enquiry has promoted quite a few helpful replies, and some posts, your own included, prompted further discussion on a related topic. It's okay to have discussion on a discussion board.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

223vmax

DBB wrote: »

Thanks for the help with the forum moderation there 223vmax.
Ironically, it was your good self that helped to prompt further discussion on the topic of keeping dogs outside with your opening comment for which you were warned not to be making digs at other forum users.
The OP's enquiry has promoted quite a few helpful replies, and some posts, your own included, prompted further discussion on a related topic. It's okay to have discussion on a discussion board.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Totally disagree, But I would say that you're opinion is that the dogs shouldn't be kept outside. So, since letting the thread open a debate on keeping the dog outside or not naturally expresses opinion on not keeping the dogs outside. Through this process, I suspect you hope somehow that the OP will decide not to keep the dog outside.... Why as Moderator have the let the thread go so far off topic? I'd suggest since it suits you and your opinon its fine. Could you please address my points?

Heskey1971

OP, if you know any builders you could try and get a few thick sheets of Aeroboard. The white insulation that goes inside block walls.
If you put this under a dog bed it will be like underfloor heating for the dogs.

n1st

The dogs have 2 material beds with 5 blankets all sitting on top of a 3 inch this waterproof bed. All situated under a bench inside a tight dry timber shed (not a cheap one). The shed has a door flap, further excluding drafts.

Neither Woodies or B&Q supply heat lamps. Electrical retailers are probably a good bet, I've been told there are energy efficient bulbs now too.

I'm going with insulation first, then followed by a heat lamp or oil rad heater type, either on with thermostat.

Thanks for the help.

DBB

Closed pending review by another mod, in light of 223vmax's comments above.
Thanks.
DBB

Cherry Blossom

223vmax wrote: »

Totally disagree, But I would say that you're opinion is that the dogs shouldn't be kept outside. So, since letting the thread open a debate on keeping the dog outside or not naturally expresses opinion on not keeping the dogs outside. Through this process, I suspect you hope somehow that the OP will decide not to keep the dog outside.... Why as Moderator have the let the thread go so far off topic? I'd suggest since it suits you and your opinon its fine. Could you please address my points?

223vmax - It is perfectly normal in this forum for threads to evolve slightly as discussion goes on. That is what has happened here a slight evolution, it is still perfectly relevant to the topic at hand. It is a breach of Boards rules to reply to a moderator's on-thread warning so I am issuing you with a red card as you have already had two on-thread warnings. Also consider yourself thread-banned. Posting in this thread again will earn you a forum ban.

For everyone else, Thread Re-opened.