Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

Cabaal

Catholic Linked Abortion advice crowd making up all sorts of crap.

The Women’s Centre advertises itself as an impartial source of advice for women who want to travel to the UK to access an abortion but has direct links to a Catholic anti-abortion group…

A woman working at the clinic, who claimed to be a counsellor, told her that breasts and ovaries were connected and that when a pregnancy ended unexpectedly a woman’s reproductive system could be damaged, causing breast cancer…and that abortion could lead to women abusing their children in the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFvOoMvpJGE

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abortions-cause-cancer-women-s-centre-claims-kvkc8qvrs

impartial advise?

yeah...I don't think so

pauldla

^^^

FFS. So much for an informed choice. 'Way too late' for the abortion pill at 7-8 weeks? Increased chance of breast cancer?

stinkle

Scumbags

aloyisious

Is this "advice" centre coincidentally located VERY near the Reproductive Choices (formerly Marie Stopes) Clinic on Berkeley Rd?

Edit... RTE radio 1 news ran a report on this newspaper report, running part of what the paper secretly recorded between its reporter and the advice clinic rep. RTE didn't, for legal reasons, name the clinic concerned. It did, however, interview a gent named Peter Butler about the clinic's claims that women who had abortions ran a higher risk of breast cancer and were more likely to abuse their children in future. His reply to both questions was NO, that the clinic rep's statements were not true.

He also explained that there are NO laws governing the setting-up of advice centres here. Another anomaly of ireland whereby one can be prosecuted for giving advice that run's contrary to that offered by Anti-Abortion advice centres but the reverse does not hold true, so misinformation can be peddled at Anti-Abortion "advice" centres willy-nilly.

Broadsheet.ie has run an article about this and posted a photo of a Blue-doored "advice" clinic next door to the Reproductive Choices (foremrly Marie Stopes) clinic. The "advice" offered and recorded is (IMO) pure Psy-Ops, scare the bejasus into the woman asking for advice. Others could doubtless claim the "advice" was given for the best possible purpose and reason.

Cabaal

Following on from earlier

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/09/05/free-wednesday-3/

In February 2014, we held a picket outside the anti-choice counselling office on Berkeley Road to oppose the intimidation and lies the ‘clinic’ promoted and its location beside a Marie Stopes service.

A report this morning from Ellen Coyne and Catherine Sanz [in The Times Ireland edition] has revealed that the service advises that abortions ’cause breast cancer and can turn women into child abusers’.

This service tells women lies, intimidates and cooercives their choices and is directly linked to Catholic anti-abortion groups.

We deserve better than this, we deserve to be given factual, non-judgemental information and to be supported in accessing safe and free reproductive choices along the spectrum.

Please join us to protest against this service and insist that dangerous, unregulated services such as this are closed.

https://www.facebook.com/realproductivehealthireland/

Cabaal

aloyisious wrote: »

Is this "advice" centre coincidentally located VERY near the Reproductive Choices (formerly Marie Stopes) Clinic on Berkeley Rd?

Yep, right next door

https://goo.gl/maps/rYqdquBjTUr

Links234

It's probably a sad indication of just how many scruples the so-called "Pro-life" bunch are lacking, but I'm not in the least bit surprised. It's uttery disgusting.

aloyisious

I appreciate Simon Harris saying he'll look at the rules which govern advice centres. Hopefully it wasn't all optics and he will confer with his colleagues and the AG to see if stupidity can be corralled and culled. The last few words are mine and not Simon's.....

Cora Sherlock was not happy with Simon but she referred to ministers (plural) on RTE TV 1 news. The Claire Byrne show on RTE 1 will cover 2 topics, one of which involves Sam Coulter-Smith, Master of Holles St Maternity hospital amongst others debating the 8th and the National Convention sitting next month.

Cabaal

Rise and Repeal March for Choice 2016

http://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/2016/08/02/rise-and-repeal-march-for-choice-2016/

Our 5th Annual March for Choice, takes place on Saturday the 24th of September, assembling at the Garden of Remembrance on Parnell Square from 1.30pm, before we march to Dáil Éireann at 2pm.

The theme of our March this year is ‘Rise and Repeal’ a comment on the failure of our Republic to fulfil the promise of equality made in 1916.
- See more at: http://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/2016/08/02/rise-and-repeal-march-for-choice-2016/#sthash.kiJfn3v9.dpuf

recedite

aloyisious wrote: »

I appreciate Simon Harris saying he'll look at the rules

Surprisingly honest of him, not promising to actually do something.

Cabaal

From a place that voted AGAINST marriage equality this is not shocking at all

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/09/06/getting-behind-the-eighth/

“I think its extremely important that politicians of all sorts give leadership, and leadership to the public that actually voted them into office.

“And that if there’s something so serious as an attempt to undermine the 8th amendment to the Constitution going on, that we’ve got to stand up, we’ve got to show a little bit of backbone anyway.”

Independent Leitrim Councillor Des Guckian talking to Newstalk this morning after Leitrim councillors passed his motion opposed to “any attempts to repeal or water down the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution” [which provides for a constitutional ban on abortion].

http://www.newstalk.com/Leitrim-County-Council-passes-motion-opposed-to-repealing-the-8th-amendment

https://oceanfm.ie/2016/09/05/leitrim-councillors-pass-anti-abortion-motion/

Cabaal

what do we know about Des Guckian?
well - http://www.thejournal.ie/election-2016/candidate/389/des-guckian/

he's a one trick pony it seems

He ran for local office on a number of occasions before being elected to Leitrim County Council in 2014. He also ran in a 2014 by-election but failed to secure a seat. He has campaigned strongly against the repealing of the 8th Amendment to the Constitution which grants an equal right to life for both a mother and an unborn child.

aloyisious

That's a lot of abstentions on both proposal votes. Hopefully the outcome on any real vote will be different. Ballymagash UDC sprang to mind

Absolam

Cabaal wrote: »

what do we know about Des Guckian?
well - he's a one trick pony it seems

Well... maybe not, though finding out more that the one thing you're focused on might require a (very) brief search...
“the 66-year-old who wrote a book on Jimmy Gralton which inspired the big screen film Jimmy’s Hall more than doubled his first preference vote to 671 compared to his previous attempt to get elected in 2009.
"I believe that Ireland, especially the West have been sold out by our chancer political parties. Together we must fight back.
“I am proposing the creation of a Special Western Development Region, within Europe, with grants and incentives to support agriculture, tourism, employments, integrated transport initiatives and a broad range of services to bring us into line with the far more developed East of the country.
“Above all, we need really fast broadband to allow people to work from home and thus regenerate this region. Emigration of our sons and daughters should no longer be tolerated.”
Cllr Guckian adds: “The political parties have let us down badly. The powers-that-be want to abolish Co Councils and local autonomy. My record as a Leitrim Councillor shows I have a sense of fairness and the ability to tackle the 'Status Quo'.”
Abortion might not be the only thing he's interested in, going by that...

aloyisious wrote: »

That's a lot of abstentions on both proposal votes. Hopefully the outcome on any real vote will be different. Ballymagash UDC sprang to mind

Given that these are Leitrum County Council motions that have no bearing or weight whatsoever, I imagine any Counciller abstaining from the vote (and discussion) might easily be spending their time more fruitfully doing just about anything else?

Pherekydes

Absolam wrote: »

“Emigration of our sons and daughters should no longer be tolerated.”
Cllr Guckian adds: “The political parties have let us down badly. The powers-that-be want to abolish Co Councils and local autonomy. My record as a Leitrim Councillor shows I have a sense of fairness and the ability to tackle the 'Status Quo'.”

He's against migration. And Status Quo.

Though why anyone in Leitrim should have anything against Status Quo is a mystery. Too Loud?

lazygal

Pherekydes wrote: »

He's against migration. And Status Quo.

Though why anyone in Leitrim should have anything against Status Quo is a mystery. Too Loud?

That auld rock and roll will lead to all sorts of shenanigans. Better be agin it just in case.

Absolam

Pherekydes wrote: »

He's against migration. And Status Quo.
Though why anyone in Leitrim should have anything against Status Quo is a mystery. Too Loud?

Cheap Trick fan?

Skrynesaver

Absolam wrote: »

Cheap Trick fan?

Who are you and what have you done with the real Absolam?

robindch

aloyisious wrote: »

Ballymagash UDC [...]

Ah, Frank Hall, come back - your world needs you!

aloyisious

Pherekydes wrote: »

He's against migration. And Status Quo.

Though why anyone in Leitrim should have anything against Status Quo is a mystery. Too Loud?

Against Status Quo? how ironic, given his vote

Cabaal

Pherekydes wrote: »

Though why anyone in Leitrim should have anything against Status Quo is a mystery. Too Loud?

Maybe he simply doesn't like rocking all over the world?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGX5jXyYfQw

Or maybe he just doesn't like rock??? :eek:

recedite

aloyisious wrote: »

That's a lot of abstentions on both proposal votes. Hopefully the outcome on any real vote will be different.

Abstentions are real votes, but they are the votes of cowards. Its all organised in advance.
Here's how it works; lets say something controversial crops up; maybe the 8th amendment, or rezoning a park to build houses on.
They work out the result among themselves in advance, for example it could be 11 for the proposal, and 9 against.
Then 5 from each side abstain, thereby remaining squeaky clean on this issue. The vote is taken officially, and passes 6:4, still with the same majority of 2.

aloyisious

There's a gent naming himself Patrick as the director of the advice clinic next to the Reproductive Choices centre on the Joe Duffy show having a bit of a rant at Joe. He just called Joe a liar, shortly after saying a 15 year-old girl was murdered (his words) at a Marie Stopes clinic in London. He was invited on to speak about a protest outside his advice centre last night, what he called Rent-A-Mob. Ah, Simon Harris, according to Patrick, is a liar.

Peter Boylan has just joined the live debate.

Edit.... It seem's Joe's researchers were into the history books as Joe asked Patrick if he was a gent, using another name, who ran for public office on behalf of a Christian party. Patrick didn't answer the question. He's very good at trying to shout down anyone else asking him questions.

DavyD_83

aloyisious wrote: »

There's a gent naming himself Patrick as the director of the advice clinic next to the Reproductive Choices centre on the Joe Duffy show having a bit of a rant at Joe. He just called Joe a liar, shortly after saying a 15 year-old girl was murdered (his words) at a Marie Stopes clinic in London. He was invited on to speak about a protest outside his advice centre last night, what he called Rent-A-Mob. Ah, Simon Harris, according to Patrick, is a liar.

Peter Boylan has just joined the live debate.

Peter Boylan was dismissed as an ignoramus.

stinkle

DavyD_83 wrote: »

Peter Boylan was dismissed as an ignoramus.

And in a comments section of one of the newspapers, so was a retired biology professor, who had worked on conditions that develop in utero.

One of the Brexit concerns was the dismissal of experts in their field as trying to brainwash the general public. It's worrying to see it occur here too.

lazygal

stinkle wrote: »

And in a comments section of one of the newspapers, so was a retired biology professor, who had worked on conditions that develop in utero.

One of the Brexit concerns was the dismissal of experts in their field as trying to brainwash the general public. It's worrying to see it occur here too.

Breda O'Brien also tried to tell Boylan about the interpretation of blood tests and how to treat sepsis on a radio programme. She's a religion teacher, yet she felt entitled to cut across actual expertise. It's very common with anti choicers.

Absolam

lazygal wrote: »

Breda O'Brien also tried to tell Boylan about the interpretation of blood tests and how to treat sepsis on a radio programme. She's a religion teacher, yet she felt entitled to cut across actual expertise.

Whilst we all know Breda is not exactly well grounded in reality, I think that might be a fairly revisionist view on what she actually said. And it wasn't like she based what she said on her credentials as a religion teacher; she was pretty clear that she was referring to the opinions of other obstetricians.

lazygal wrote: »

It's very common with anti choicers.

Should we continue the snarl fest by calling those on the other side of the discussion anti lifers? I thought everyone was getting over the need to mischaracterise others in order to feel secure in their opinions. Still, even going by this thread alone I think it's fair to say pro choice proponents are quite happy to ignore facts when it suits their agenda... so pro life pundits aren't the only ones who it could be said it's very common with. Who knows, maybe the facts we discuss today

pauldla

Absolam wrote: »

Should we continue the snarl fest by calling those on the other side of the discussion anti lifers? I thought everyone was getting over the need to mischaracterise others in order to feel secure in their opinions. Still, even going by this thread alone I think it's fair to say pro choice proponents are quite happy to ignore facts when it suits their agenda... so pro life pundits aren't the only ones who it could be said it's very common with.

Frostyjacks is an expert, and lazygal cut across him?

Absolam

pauldla wrote: »

Frostyjacks is an expert, and lazygal cut across him?

Gosh no! Lazygal was trying to sell the notion that the maternity system here removes the right to informed consent from pregnant women because of the eighth amendment; ignoring the fact that there is no abrogation to the right to informed consent (such as exists) for anyone because of the 8th, or for any other reason. Pregnant women have as much right to informed consent as any other patient in the Irish medical system.

pauldla

Absolam wrote: »

Gosh no! Lazygal was trying to sell the notion that the maternity system here removes the right to informed consent from pregnant women because of the eighth amendment; ignoring the fact that there is no abrogation to the right to informed consent (such as exists) for anyone because of the 8th, or for any other reason. Pregnant women have as much right to informed consent as any other patient in the Irish medical system.

Is that what she said? That's a tricky bit of wording there, perhaps lazygal will clarify for us.

(wanders off to check meaning of 'abrogation')