Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

smacl

Cabaal wrote: »

Surely priests should lead by example when it comes to having children/family,
They are supposed to be fine upstanding moral people to lead people by, lets see how they manage with a family

Sure didn't Eamon Casey try that one and get into an awful kerfuffle over it

PopePalpatine

Poland's parliament is debating a total ban on abortion (with not even the life of the mother an acceptable reason to have one legally), following a petition of over 400,000 signatures. After reading this BBC article, the resemblance to Ireland's own debate on abortion is uncanny in parts.

frostyjacks

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Poland's parliament is debating a total ban on abortion (with not even the life of the mother an acceptable reason to have one legally), following a petition of over 400,000 signatures. After reading this BBC article, the resemblance to Ireland's own debate on abortion is uncanny in parts.

It's encouraging to see other countries take a stand against this seemingly inevitable slide into degeneracy. No doubt your Jewish-American paymaster picked up the bill for those coat hangers too.

PopePalpatine

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's encouraging to see other countries take a stand against this seemingly inevitable slide into degeneracy. No doubt your Jewish-American paymaster picked up the bill for those coat hangers too.

Yep, it's so encouraging to see 400k people OK with women dying in pregnancy, because "DEUS VULT!" :rolleyes:

frag420

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's encouraging to see other countries take a stand against this seemingly inevitable slide into degeneracy. No doubt your Jewish-American paymaster picked up the bill for those coat hangers too.

I prefer to collect the hangers from Christian clothes charities around Ireland....just walk in and ask for a few clothes hangers and they are always happy to help out!


Little do they know...

recedite

aloyisious wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/contraception-an-attack-on-fertility-says-leading-catholic-teacher-755352.html

What the prof wrote can be read and/or thought to refer to the native human European stock. I hope he thought through what he wrote. God forbid we ethnically cleanse ourselves out of existence.

As the "native stock" declines, so too does the European "Christian heritage" and culture. They are saying the same thing elsewhere.

I presume the doctrine banning contraception has always had much the same primary function; ie to boost the number of followers. Overpopulation in Muslim parts of the world is largely due to their continuing implementation of the same kinds of policies towards women and contraception that RCC successfully promoted for centuries. As those who still follow the successful strategy overspill into Europe, it is a confirmation that it does actually work, in terms of the expansion of the group. Dawkins originally invented the word "meme" to describe how these kind of things work. The Selfish Gene and all that.

aloyisious

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's encouraging to see other countries take a stand against this seemingly inevitable slide into degeneracy. No doubt your Jewish-American paymaster picked up the bill for those coat hangers too.

Hmm, the Jewish conspiracy theory. Would this be working hand-in-glove with the Islamification threat to Christian Europe conspiracy?

Pack's bags with wet gear for walk in Dublin later today

Loafing Oaf

aloyisious wrote: »

Hmm, the Jewish conspiracy theory.

Re the same dreaded 'elder of Zion', I love this Life News headline:

Abortion Activist George Soros Funding Pro-Abortion March to Legalize Abortion in Ireland

http://www.lifenews.com/2016/09/23/abortion-activist-george-soros-funding-pro-abortion-march-to-legalize-abortion-in-ireland/

Might they have squeezed the a-word in one more time?

smacl

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Poland's parliament is debating a total ban on abortion (with not even the life of the mother an acceptable reason to have one legally), following a petition of over 400,000 signatures. After reading this BBC article, the resemblance to Ireland's own debate on abortion is uncanny in parts.

But hey, apparently it is not a religious issue, at least according to all the religious types that post here. Funny how the only other countries that are pro-life are so staunchly Catholic. Gotta love those coat hangers though, really does show up how well informed today's religious zealot when it comes to modern medical practise.

fran17

smacl wrote: »

But hey, apparently it is not a religious issue, at least according to all the religious types that post here. Funny how the only other countries that are pro-life are so staunchly Catholic. Gotta love those coat hangers though, really does show up how well informed today's religious zealot when it comes to modern medical practise.

Indeed,modern abortion practices have truly been honed to a fine art:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ogoqXMJDzE

Disgusting and incomprehensible in the 21st century.

smacl

fran17 wrote: »

Indeed,modern abortion practices have truly been honed to a fine art:

Disgusting and incomprehensible in the 21st century.

Disgusting and incomprehensible because it was of course found to have been made up, but then what else would you expect from religious extremists.

In 2015 an anti-abortion organization called the Center for Medical Progress (CMP) released several videos that had been secretly recorded. The videos showed how members of CMP posed as representatives of a biotechnology company in order to gain access to meetings with abortion providers. Members of CMP were later indicted by a Texas grand jury on felony charges for tampering with governmental records, but the charges were later dismissed.[1]
All of the videos were found to be altered, according to analysis by Fusion GPS, a Washington-based research and corporate intelligence company, and its co-founder Glenn Simpson, a former investigative reporter for The Wall Street Journal.

While ignorant of modern medicine apparently the coat hanger brigade have been swotting up on CGI. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story hey? :rolleyes:

fran17

smacl wrote: »

Disgusting and incomprehensible because it was of course found to have been made up, but then what else would you expect from religious extremists.



While ignorant of modern medicine apparently the coat hanger brigade have been swotting up on CGI. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story hey? :rolleyes:

That's quite the claim to make that the video and audio in that investigation was "made up",I've heard people state that about the moon landings in the past but this is something entirely more sinister.Are you asserting that the evidence which clearly shows that these children are being ripped from their mothers womb in a manner which preserves their "popular" organs for monetary gain is fabricated?

Hotblack Desiato

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's encouraging to see other countries take a stand against this seemingly inevitable slide into degeneracy. No doubt your Jewish-American paymaster picked up the bill for those coat hangers too.

Don't be so Nazi, I mean nasty.

aloyisious

There were some activists from the anti-abortion side along the route, two gents outside the Gate theatre waving a Papal flag & a picture of Mary, one outside the Gresham asking us to repent & one on Nth Earl St - couldn't make out what he was saying. Some-one (presumably not George Soras) funded one of the billboard lorries to let us know that abortion was violence against women. I suppose George might be the Jewish-American paymaster referred to but not named, here earlier.

Cabaal

Support from around the world

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/09/24/eighth-wonder-of-the-world/

Cabaal

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/09/23/absent-women/

On a related note

Oireachtas Retort has takes in-depth look at the relationship between legacy media such as RTÉ, and the Catholic hard-right, with a specific eye on marginalisation of women’s voices.

It’s a long read at the link below, but worth the prolonged grabbing of tay.

When news of the Miss X broke in 1992, An Taoiseach Albert Reynolds stood in the chamber to make a statement on Ireland’s injunction of a fourteen year old girl. There were just eight women TDs at the time and the two who tried to speak were ruled out of order by the Cheann Comhairle.

After over 21 years, a government passed legislation in line with that Supreme Court judgement which had been upheld by the people not once but twice.

From that January through May, no law in our lifetime was ever given so much time in parliament but it was not until the final stage of the final night in 2013, after months of supposed debate, that someone read onto the Dáil record part of evidence given by a then teenage girl during the X Case.

She had been absent throughout. She was not alone, government also excluded the D Case from consideration. Deirdre Conroy was absent until waving her anonymity in 2013 stating that what happened to Savita Halappanavar “was the final straw”.

Ahead of the 2002 referendum she had previously published an pseudonymous open letter the Taoiseach asking to be listened to. Here she was again three Taoisigh later.

There is no reason why anyone in her circumstances or any other should have to forfeit so much to be heard in Leinster House.

In public houses where there is considerably less drinking and antisocial behaviour, places long considered and marketed as the heart of Irish social life, women were routinely banished to a snug if they were served at all.

One way or another, women were absent. Through the law and much more, women’s views, experience and decision making was kept out of sight where it was less likely to intrude or contribute….

https://oireachtasretort.ie/2016/09/23/repealthe8th-on-the-importance-absence-and-nuisance/

smacl

fran17 wrote: »

That's quite the claim to make that the video and audio in that investigation was "made up",I've heard people state that about the moon landings in the past but this is something entirely more sinister.Are you asserting that the evidence which clearly shows that these children are being ripped from their mothers womb in a manner which preserves their "popular" organs for monetary gain is fabricated?

Maybe you should look at the facts surrounding this gathered over the investigations that followed these videos. Firstly regarding monetary gain;

CMP claimed the videos were evidence of Planned Parenthood engaging in the illegal sale of fetal tissue.[3] Their dummy corporation Biomax offered one clinic US$1,600 for tissue, but the affiliate declined the offer.[10][11] The New York Times has characterized the offer as an attempt to "trap the affiliate in the act of accepting a high payment for fetal tissue".[10]
In a less-edited version of the first video, PPFA staff repeatedly state that the organization makes no money from tissue donations, and that the US$30–100 charge only covers procurement costs.[3] PPFA have said they may donate fetal tissue at the request of a patient, but such tissue is never sold.[3][12] At one point in the video, a PPFA staffer states "nobody should be 'selling' tissue," and "that's just not the goal here".[13]
According to several experts in the field, the fees Planned Parenthood charged for fetal tissue were too low to make any profit for Planned Parenthood and constituted reasonable compensation for the costs of procurement, as allowed by Federal law. On October 13, 2015, Planned Parenthood announced it would no longer accept reimbursement for the costs of collecting and shipping fetal tissue to research labs. Citing an "anti-abortion agenda" by some in Congress, Planned Parenthood stated the move was designed to remove a reason for politically motivated attacks.

Secondly regarding usage of fetal material;

The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) published an editorial in support of Planned Parenthood's "efforts to channel fetal tissue into important medical research". The editorial argued that many medical advances would not have been made without fetal tissue research and that "Planned Parenthood, its physicians, and the researchers who do this work should be praised, not damned." The NEJM described CMP's actions as a "campaign of misinformation" and said that it is shameful that CMP "continues to twist the facts to achieve its ends"

Thirdly regarding videos of children being ripped from their mothers womb;

...the video footage Fiorina referred to was not obtained from a Planned Parenthood clinic, but was stock footage of an unrelated live fetus, obtained from the Grantham Collection, "an organization that hopes to stem abortion by promoting graphic images of the procedure".

One of the videos includes an image of a stillborn fetus, published in the Daily Mail in January 2014, used without the permission of the woman in the photo, and in a way that falsely suggests that the stillborn was aborted.

These videos are edited down from hundreds of hours of recordings taken over 30 months. Once you start editing this amount of material down into 10 minute videos designed to promote an agenda, and intersperse unrelated stock footage, you can say whatever you want.

Cabaal

smacl, please don't let simple facts get in the way of fran17's agenda of lies, its just not fair
:pac:

Delirium

Youth Defense being disgusting as usual.

https://twitter.com/HelenORahilly/status/779727425173323776
https://twitter.com/daithigorman/status/779726277032968192

Cabaal

Nothing surprises me when it comes to Youth Defense, nothing at all

lazygal

Cabaal wrote: »

Nothing surprises me when it comes to Youth Defense, nothing at all

Me neither.
I was actually pleasantly surprised how few bothered abusing us on the march. It was definitely a much nicer atmosphere throughout than previous years. Maybe the rain put them off bothering.

aloyisious

smacl wrote: »

But hey, apparently it is not a religious issue, at least according to all the religious types that post here. Funny how the only other countries that are pro-life are so staunchly Catholic. Gotta love those coat hangers though, really does show up how well informed today's religious zealot when it comes to modern medical practise.

Ref it is not a religious issue, can we have faith in that?

aloyisious

lazygal wrote: »

Me neither.
I was actually pleasantly surprised how few bothered abusing us on the march. It was definitely a much nicer atmosphere throughout than previous years. Maybe the rain put them off bothering.

RTE reported that the anti-abortion side had a meeting in Dublin while the march was on (RTE TV News item I saw on Grafton St after the march). Wondered if it was in the Merrion Square North address we passed - home of St Josephs Young Priests Society - reportedly also used by David Quinn & groups with an anti-abortion bias. Great place to see the truth of how many were on the march opposing their desire to keep the ban on abortion intact.

Delirium

https://twitter.com/GoChaela/status/779744422070145024

fran17

smacl wrote: »

Maybe you should look at the facts surrounding this gathered over the investigations that followed these videos. Firstly regarding monetary gain;



Secondly regarding usage of fetal material;



Thirdly regarding videos of children being ripped from their mothers womb;



These videos are edited down from hundreds of hours of recordings taken over 30 months. Once you start editing this amount of material down into 10 minute videos designed to promote an agenda, and intersperse unrelated stock footage, you can say whatever you want.

The full unedited videos regarding this episode are free to view online for anybody who wishes to,considering they are of hours in length this extract is a fine example to inform people just what a planned parenthood,or their Irish affiliate IFPA,abortion would entail.
What shocks me most is that when you absorb footage like this regarding the absolute distain for unborn human life,instead of acknowledging the moral aspect or the wrongness of it,you look for semantic or legal arguments in an attempt to justify it.Hotblack Desiato used the Nazi terminology a little earlier in an attempt to besmirch another poster but its a justifiable terminology,I feel,when the abortion subject is present.If you can dehumanise the unborn child,similar to dehumanising any person,then the taking of their life is acceptable to some.That saddens me deeply.

aloyisious

http://on.irishtimes.com/YMYNeq4

This might be seen as not reliable, as some people "believe" the Irish Times is biased towards the Pro-choice side.

smacl

aloyisious wrote: »

Ref it is not a religious issue, can we have faith in that?

Not so sure that faith is required. While you have a number of pro-life atheists such as Hitchens and pro-life humanists, the vast majority are closely connected to conservative religious groups. While correlation is not causation, I think it is a bit of a stretch to consider this coincidental, don't you? It is also worth remembering that atheists don't form a homogeneous group with a common world view, so for any major issue you would expect to find atheists on either side. This is very different to dogmatic religious organisations such as the Catholic church where the position on such issues is decreed by the hierarchy (even though it is increasingly ignored in countries such as Ireland), where pro-life is the party line.

aloyisious

fran17 wrote: »

The full unedited videos regarding this episode are free to view online for anybody who wishes to,considering they are of hours in length this extract is a fine example to inform people just what a planned parenthood,or their Irish affiliate IFPA,abortion would entail.
What shocks me most is that when you absorb footage like this regarding the absolute distain for unborn human life,instead of acknowledging the moral aspect or the wrongness of it,you look for semantic or legal arguments in an attempt to justify it.Hotblack Desiato used the Nazi terminology a little earlier in an attempt to besmirch another poster but its a justifiable terminology,I feel,when the abortion subject is present.If you can dehumanise the unborn child,similar to dehumanising any person,then the taking of their life is acceptable to some.That saddens me deeply.

For what it's worth, just looking at the particular reference which Hotblack was responding to, said reference being to an Jewish-American Paymaster, mayby George Soros who (with the help of a fellow Hungarian) survived the Nazis and their allies in Hungary following it's invasion, and the historical Untermenschen dimension in reference to 1944. It seem's Hotblack didn't miss the part left out by the O/P, as that O/P researched George Soros's history. I'm surprised the O/P apparently missed that bit, but maybe he/she was just in a sarky mood.

smacl

fran17 wrote: »

If you can dehumanise the unborn child,similar to dehumanising any person,then the taking of their life is acceptable to some.That saddens me deeply.

It saddens me that when a family planning clinic passes on fetal remains for medical research, with the full consent of the woman who chose to have an abortion, it is dressed up as profiteering from the sale body parts in a kind of Burke and Hare kitsch with the sole aim at closing family planning clinics. That these videos add unrelated footage and attribute it to those clinics is clearly morally reprehensible. Given that stem cell research looks like being one of the best hopes for long term treatment of diseases such Parkinson's and spinal chord injuries, videos such as these to real harm to our society.

Elliott S

aloyisious wrote: »

There were some activists from the anti-abortion side along the route, two gents outside the Gate theatre waving a Papal flag & a picture of Mary, one outside the Gresham asking us to repent & one on Nth Earl St - couldn't make out what he was saying. Some-one (presumably not George Soras) funded one of the billboard lorries to let us know that abortion was violence against women. I suppose George might be the Jewish-American paymaster referred to but not named, here earlier.

Aye, there was a few anti-abortionistas out and about along the march route but I found there to be far more support than opposition from the sidelines which was very nice to see. Cheering, clapping, chanting. I noticed the North Earl Street guy, reminding us that we were all sinners. Well surely he believes in original sin so, like, duh. :pac:

Some of the chants and banners were hilarious: "They tried to make me go to England, but I said "No No No!"", "Hail Mary, full of grace, allow to us repeal the eighth!", "Not your pussy, not your problem!", a laminated piece of paper saying "I have an A3 laminator, in your face, anti-choicers!" Way more that I can't remember. Can anyone else remember any?