Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

Odhinn

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Committee apparently set to recommend "abortion without restriction in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy." Strangely three FF TDs in favour but SF contingent opposed.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/no-restriction-on-abortion-in-first-12-weeks-say-tds-vkdrmtlf9

I wonder would there be a strong onus on the government to follow this line...

Strange indeed.

I dread the rhetoric thats going to fly about this, I really do.

DickSwiveller

So someone can kill a baby anytime up to 12 weeks for no reason? This country really is sick.

Odhinn

DickSwiveller wrote: »

So someone can kill a baby anytime up to 12 weeks for no reason? This country really is sick.

...as if on cue.

gctest50

DickSwiveller wrote: »

So someone can kill a baby anytime up to 12 weeks for no reason? This country really is sick.

No, no, no you can't kill a 3 month old baby



You would be able to terminate a pregnancy up to ~ 12 weeks

DickSwiveller

gctest50 wrote: »

No, no, no you can't kill a 3 month old baby



You would be able to terminate a pregnancy up to ~ 12 weeks

"Terminate a Pregnancy"

Ye, kill a baby. Spare me the sinister euphemisms.

Loafing Oaf

Odhinn wrote: »

Strange indeed.

Kelleher has been making liberal noises on the issue for a few years but I'm surprised he's prepared to go this far (if true). Chambers is one of my TDs in Mayo, there or thereabouts as the most conservative constituency in the country. I suppose being in FF gives her cover: where else are the pro-lifers going to go?

Odhinn

DickSwiveller wrote: »

"Terminate a Pregnancy"

Ye, kill a baby. Spare me the sinister euphemisms.

The worst thing is, there's going to be a lot of this, and they aren't just going to be doing it to get a rise out of people.

DickSwiveller

Odhinn wrote: »

The worst thing is, there's going to be a lot of this, and they aren't just going to be doing it to get a rise out of people.

No, I speak out because I'm sick of the euphemisms, the sanctimony and general idiocy of the anti-life mob. How do you feel about 200,000 babies killed every year in Britain? IAre you comfortable with that?

Odhinn

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Kelleher has been making liberal noises on the issue for a few years but I'm surprised he's prepared to go this far (if true). Chambers is one of my TDs in Mayo, there or thereabouts as the most conservative constituency in the country. I suppose being in FF gives her cover: where else are the pro-lifers going to go?

The SF position isn't that suprising, as motions for a liberal regime have been consistently defeated in party votes over the years. Still, dissappointing.

Odhinn

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No, I speak out because I'm sick of the euphemisms, the sanctimony and general idiocy of the anti-life mob. How do you feel about 200,000 babies killed every year in Britain? IAre you comfortable with that?

Having seen the fate of unwanted children, absolutely grand.

DickSwiveller

Odhinn wrote: »

Having seen the fate of unwanted children, absolutely grand.

Ye, better kill them.

Odhinn

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Ye, better kill them.

That's an emotional and dishonest way of describing the termination of a pregnancy however.

DickSwiveller

Odhinn wrote: »

That's an emotional and dishonest way of describing the termination of a pregnancy however.

You calling it a 'termination of pregnancy' is dishonest. Call it what it is, instead of trying to mask what's actually happening so you don't feel morally culpable.

uptherebels

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No, I speak out because I'm sick of the euphemisms, the sanctimony and general idiocy of the anti-life mob. How do you feel about 200,000 babies killed every year in Britain? IAre you comfortable with that?

Ah your one of those... :rolleyes:

gctest50

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No, I speak out because I'm sick of the euphemisms, the sanctimony and general idiocy of the anti-life mob. How do you feel about 200,000 babies killed every year in Britain? IAre you comfortable with that?

Go to Britain and do something about it then if you are so upset about terminations over there

Or are you just going to keep droning on about it here post after post ?

Odhinn

DickSwiveller wrote: »

You calling it a 'termination of pregnancy' is dishonest. Call it what it is, instead of trying to mask what's actually happening so you don't feel morally culpable.

As I said, having seen the fate of unwanted children here, I'm absolutely grand with it (the regime in Britain).

DickSwiveller

Odhinn wrote: »

As I said, having seen the fate of unwanted children here, I'm absolutely grand with it (the regime in Britain).

Well, that says a lot about you.

DickSwiveller

gctest50 wrote: »

Go to Britain and do something about it then if you are so upset about terminations over there

Or are you just going to keep droning on about it here post after post ?

Another euphemism merchant. Ye, I'll single handedly stop all abortions. Great idea.

gctest50

Typical, whine all day and do nothing


Keep droning on so, post after post, emotive set to max.

Odhinn

gctest50 wrote: »

Typical, whine all day and do nothing


Keep droning on so, post after post, emotive set to max.

If they do try to put the 3 month termination limit to the electorate thats exactly what the lot of them will be effectively doing.

Loafing Oaf

Odhinn wrote: »

The SF position isn't that suprising, as motions for a liberal regime have been consistently defeated in party votes over the years. Still, dissappointing.

You wonder will they find a way to back out of that cul de sac, a special party conference to debate the issue maybe. It's a pretty embarrassing position for a 'radical left-wing' party, when you think about it: lining up with Ronan and Mattie while FF and FG TDs are on the other side.

volchitsa

DickSwiveller wrote: »

You calling it a 'termination of pregnancy' is dishonest. Call it what it is, instead of trying to mask what's actually happening so you don't feel morally culpable.

It's actually terminating a pregnancy. That's literally what it is.

Calling it killing a baby when you're not even prepared to arrest women who travel abroad to terminate their pregnancies is what's dishonest.

Hotblack Desiato

aloyisious wrote: »

Sway the 13% towards safe ground, an agreement to amending the wording of the 8th to allow for abortion up to 12 weeks, is probably the better option to ensure women do get the right to choose for themselves, however restrictive that might turn out. Keep up the pressure for deletion of the 8th, with relaxation of the law on abortion as a second, but keep the important in mind, the prime right of freedom of choice for women must be with women, and not some-one with an imprisoning opinion of abortion. As for the 27% +/-, they can be swayed as well.

I'm waiting for the "deletion of the 8th will mean the POLDP would have no legal standing" lie to be used again.

If you're arguing for some constitutional halfway house, I say no. The 8th needs to go, preferably replaced by a wording that gives the Oireachtas the explicit right to legislate for abortion. The last thing we need to do is put 'X number of weeks' or 'rape, incest but not otherwise' type articles into the constitution instead of the 8th.

Hotblack Desiato

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No, I speak out because I'm sick of the euphemisms, the sanctimony and general idiocy of the anti-life mob. How do you feel about 200,000 babies killed every year in Britain? IAre you comfortable with that?

Totally.

Odhinn

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

You wonder will they find a way to back out of that cul de sac, a special party conference to debate the issue maybe. It's a pretty embarrassing position for a 'radical left-wing' party, when you think about it: lining up with Ronan and Mattie while FF and FG TDs are on the other side.

I heard it said that its the northern membership that are most conservative on the issue, and thats what stops a more liberal policy being taken on, but can't say whether thats true or not.

Loafing Oaf

Odhinn wrote: »

I heard it said that its the northern membership that are most conservative on the issue, and thats what stops a more liberal policy being taken on, but can't say whether thats true or not.

Well the position they adopted at the last Ard Fheis favours

the availability of abortion in cases where a woman’s life, health, mental health is at serious risk or in grave danger, and also in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities and cases of sexual abuse and rape.

Whether that would amount to full liberalisation in practice is debatable. I reckon they've been blindsided by the committee's apparent adoption of a full pro-choice position. I suspect they were expect it to come out in favour of 'exceptional circumstances' legislation which they would have no problem supporting.

rainbow kirby

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No, I speak out because I'm sick of the euphemisms, the sanctimony and general idiocy of the anti-life mob. How do you feel about 200,000 babies killed every year in Britain? IAre you comfortable with that?

Considering that I live in Britain, feel safer having my kids here than I do in 8th amendment Ireland and vote for politicians who would not make any further restrictions - absolutely. I have zero time for those who do not respect women and their right to bodily autonomy.

aloyisious

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

If you're arguing for some constitutional halfway house, I say no. The 8th needs to go, preferably replaced by a wording that gives the Oireachtas the explicit right to legislate for abortion. The last thing we need to do is put 'X number of weeks' or 'rape, incest but not otherwise' type articles into the constitution instead of the 8th.

I was thinking along strategy-lines to get the 13% against voting NO to a change, give them a way to vote differently in a pro-choice for women way, anything to reasonably lessen the vote given to the NO-Choice camp and ensure there is at least a 60% vote for choice for women. The No-Choice side will try to scare voters into a state of belief that being Pro-Choice is akin to baby-killing. I assume they'll try to advise doctors and nurses again on the issue.

eviltwin

DickSwiveller wrote: »

No, I speak out because I'm sick of the euphemisms, the sanctimony and general idiocy of the anti-life mob. How do you feel about 200,000 babies killed every year in Britain? IAre you comfortable with that?

Totally fine with abortion, not really in favour of killing babies :rolleyes: but it's not killing a baby and if anyone really believed it was there would be demands that it be treated as such just like Volchitsa said. You can't say the unborn should be treated the same as the living and deny them justice surely?

DickSwiveller

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Considering that I live in Britain, feel safer having my kids here than I do in 8th amendment Ireland and vote for politicians who would not make any further restrictions - absolutely. I have zero time for those who do not respect women and their right to bodily autonomy.

Yawn, endless euphemisms with you people. What about the small matter of the baby?