Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

smacl

recedite wrote: »

But I won't believe that any political campaign group would get involved in what would be a criminal act carried out on a widespread scale, unless I see some firm evidence of it first.

Seriously? Ever hear of Cambridge analytica? Seems to me like most political parties will do whatever they can to get their side across the line regardless of legality, just so long as they reckon they won't get caught, or if they do, they can pass the blame on. Unfortunately, at a political level, genuine integrity seems a bit thin on the ground.

aloyisious

recedite wrote: »

Who knows what goes on within family politics.
But I won't believe that any political campaign group would get involved in what would be a criminal act carried out on a widespread scale, unless I see some firm evidence of it first.

Would you believe it if it just turned out to be some free-thinking enthusiastic randomer from within a small group and not anything on a widespread scale? I have to agree with you, t'would be appalling that a widespread scale of illegality would be considered by a respectable organisation or that a evidential trail would be left to the front door. God forbid anyone should muse about or suggest such an appaling vista.

recedite

smacl wrote: »

Seriously? Ever hear of Cambridge analytica?

I have, but I'm not one of those who quickly jumped to the conclusion that they committed a crime. Certainly Zuckerberg gave them access to more of his info about you than he intended to, but that's about it.

Cabaal

smacl wrote: »

Also be interested in what happened, guessing a more zealous family member or someone else in the same house. Wouldn't have thought a third party could easily do this, as it would also constitute identity theft / fraud.

Certainly not any family member, we've always been very proud voters.. Every single one of us. Frankly I find it insulting for somebody to suggest such a baseless thing.

We know who was removed and we know who had to be registered again, the claim from what I remember is we had changed address which was nonsense.

pleas advice

smokingman wrote: »

Check if you're registered everyone. Seems the latest tactic from the "love both" crowd is to write letters to councils to get people they've identified using Facebook data to get pro-choice people removed as "non-resident"

lazygal wrote: »

They're also noting addresses on the canvass where people tell them they're voting yes and getting people removed.

.

Cabaal wrote: »

Frankly I find it insulting for somebody to suggest such a baseless thing.

recedite

Cabaal wrote: »

the claim from what I remember is we had changed address which was nonsense.

So you're saying it was an unintentional clerical or admin error?

smacl

Cabaal wrote: »

Certainly not any family member, we've always been very proud voters.. Every single one of us. Frankly I find it insulting for somebody to suggest such a baseless thing.

Apologies, no insult intended.

We know who was removed and we know who had to be registered again, the claim from what I remember is we had changed address which was nonsense.

For someone to change your registration details they need to furnish proof of your identity, typically birth cert and/or passport. This needs to be signed by a member of the Garda Síochána in a Garda station, at which point they have to either claim to be you, or be acting on your behalf due to your medical disability for not being able to do this yourself. See form RFA3 (Application for inclusion in the supplement to the Register of Electors-Change of Address). Doing either of these amounts to fraud, committed in a Garda station, witnessed by a garda, and documented. It seems pretty dumb and no doubt something the Gardaí would follow up on if brought to their attention.

The idea that this can be done on a large scale by a lobby group would seem to me to be pretty specious until such time I saw evidence to the contrary.

smacl

recedite wrote: »

I have, but I'm not one of those who quickly jumped to the conclusion that they committed a crime. Certainly Zuckerberg gave them access to more of his info about you than he intended to, but that's about it.

That, and they're under investigation in the states accused of breaking US election law. If you seriously believe a judge would issue a warrant to raid their premises on a whim, you're mistaken.

seamus

The issue with arguing about whether you can or can't be removed from the register is that you're assuming there's a process in place and it's not a complete clusterfnck.

We were removed from the register in a property because we didn't send in the registration form. And that's the way it should be. Yet in other areas families stay on the register for years despite never notifying anyone.

It's managed by county councils - jobsworth civil servants. So if you ring up five people looking for information, you will get five different answers. And while one rep will swear blind that you can't be removed with a phone call, someone in the council office has probably been amending the register over the phone all week. Someone from Dublin City Council says you can't, but that doesn't mean the team in Kildare CC don't.

FWIW, I put myself and my wife on the register via email, with no verification or confirmation required. I'm pretty sure removing us from the register could be done just as easily.

Cabaal

recedite wrote: »

So you're saying it was an unintentional clerical or admin error?

Perhaps it was an error or we were intentionally removed. At the end of the day their would have been an assumption by outsiders that the family would all vote FF (not the case) due to family history.

So to a third party it would have been a useful way to get rid of a good few votes which they would have assumed all would have been for FF.

smacl

seamus wrote: »

FWIW, I put myself and my wife on the register via email, with no verification or confirmation required. I'm pretty sure removing us from the register could be done just as easily.

Fair enough. My daughter turned 18 last year and had to go to the local garda station to get registered. Could be that things have tightened up recently, as I would have thought any local government IT system that involved entering mandatory details of proof of identity wouldn't be quite that easily circumvented. AFAIK, the old LGCSB iReg system was a shambles and was due for an overhaul in 2012, no idea when and if it has been rolled out and to what effect.

robindch

smokingman wrote: »

Check if you're registered everyone.

SpunOut and other sites are recommending the same. Note there seems to be no plausible allegations of organized deregistration at this time. Just recommendations to verify that one is correctly registered - something which should apply to all national and local votes.

https://spunout.ie/news/article/can-i-vote-in-the-referendum-to-repeal-the-8th-amendment

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/check-before-the-referendum-number-of-people-find-they-have-been-removed-from-electoral-register-837533.html

smacl

Anyone else getting targeted with on-line pro-life ads? Got one last night playing a video game on the phone last night with my daughter. We're a strongly pro-choice household so was somewhat surprised. I'm guessing following some link from this forum onto various fundy sites has me labelled as a long lost Walton or Ingalls grandchild in the Google hive-mind. Had a mooch around Google Ad choices and preferences but there are so many nondescript marketing outfits listed as targeting my profile its very difficult to know where anything is coming from.

recedite

smacl wrote: »

Anyone else getting targeted with on-line pro-life ads? Got one last night playing a video game on the phone last night with my daughter. We're a strongly pro-choice household so was somewhat surprised. I'm guessing following some link from this forum onto various fundy sites has me labelled as a long lost Walton or Ingalls grandchild in the Google hive-mind. Had a mooch around Google Ad choices and preferences but there are so many nondescript marketing outfits listed as targeting my profile its very difficult to know where anything is coming from.

My default assumption is that anything I click on, and any text I type into the internet is being monitored somewhere by some AI. Not that it really bothers me.
So in that one post you have typed the words "pro-life" as well as "pro-choice" into a thread called "abortion discussion".

recedite

smacl wrote: »

That, and they're under investigation in the states accused of breaking US election law. If you seriously believe a judge would issue a warrant to raid their premises on a whim, you're mistaken.

Its a bit dubious and I don't see any charges yet. But assuming being a foreigner leads to it being an offence in that particular circumstance, then if CA had done the exact same thing using a US brass plate address it would not have been a problem. So somebody is clutching at straws there I think.

seamus wrote: »

The issue with arguing about whether you can or can't be removed from the register is that you're assuming there's a process in place and it's not a complete clusterfnck....
FWIW, I put myself and my wife on the register via email, with no verification or confirmation required. I'm pretty sure removing us from the register could be done just as easily.

That may be, but the main point here is that if somebody other than yourselves sent the same e-mail it would be fraud.
So its not how easy it is to do that counts, its who does it and why.

volchitsa

I was once told that people can be removed from the register at random as a way of testing for fraudulent registrations or just mistakes on the  electoral rolls.  The idea being that it's up to the person to point this out and get the problem fixed.
This is a vague memory from years ago so I'm not even 100% sure of how accurate it was, I think it was said about Northern Ireland where there may be more fears of fraud than in many places, but I always assumed it could be done anywhere. I only mention it because it would explain someone finding theselves removed from the rolls without there being any suggestion of foul play.

aloyisious

On the electoral register list, I checked at the local library and got the OK. Thing is that the list behind the desk there was out of date [staff member advised me of same & asked me to wait until his colleague returned and he got the new list] and the new up to date list was kept locked away in a store-room. So if the one behind the desk was relied upon, an error could well have passed by unchecked. Make sure the list being checked for you is the newest/up-to-date list.......

Just on RTE R1 news, facebook is updating it's policy re advertising to [in future] have the persons directly behind adverts named in the Ads when shown on F/B. F/B's irish staff member responsible for implementing this new F/B rule told RTE that it wouldn't be applied in Ireland until after the referendum. The RTE item was in reference to an F/B appearance before a committee to explain it's policy [I'm not sure where the committee belong's but it might have been an Oireachtas committee as the RTE report also included an interview with the Green Party leader here].

robindch

aloyisious wrote: »

On the electoral register list, I checked at the local library and got the OK.

You can check online as well:

http://www.checktheregister.ie/

robindch

The RCC wasn't always as anti-choice as it is these days. Actually, some of its earlier saints were reported to well-disposed towards discretionary abortions:

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/saints-once-did-abortions-it-was-a-lesser-sin-than-oral-sex-1.3466881

aloyisious

Kinda peculiar listening to RTE news about the things canvassers get asked when going door-to-door asking residents if they are interested in the delete the 8th referendum and would they have any views on the issue. I reckon one answer might have been a bit of irish humour on the part of the house-holder "What's the 8th amendment?" leaving the canvasser slightly flummoxed.

magicbastarder

apols if already posted.

mickydcork

robindch wrote: »

You can check online as well:

http://www.checktheregister.ie/

I'm almost certain that I am on the register.

I got my voting cards etc. for the last election and the last referendum.

But when I check through your link it can't find my details!

What's up with that?

Have I been removed?

PopePalpatine

mickydcork wrote: »

I'm almost certain that I am on the register.

I got my voting cards etc. for the last election and the last referendum.

But when I check through your link it can't find my details!

What's up with that?

Have I been removed?

Check your local library to be sure. I couldn't find myself on the website, but I was on the physical electoral roll - I think it might be something to do with having a fáda in my name. :pac:

donspeekinglesh

And if you checked via your address try your eircode and vice versa.

My wife and I only show up when we use our address, using the eircode says we're not registered.

recedite

I couldn't find my own address on the web page. It might have worked if the eircode box wasn't greyed out. The whole thing is dysfunctional.

I'll just wait for the polling cards to arrive, as usual. In the unlikely event that they don't, I can always kick up a fuss afterwards.

smacl

Worked for me. Maybe they only tested South Dublin

aloyisious

recedite wrote: »

I couldn't find my own address on the web page. It might have worked if the eircode box wasn't greyed out. The whole thing is dysfunctional.

I'll just wait for the polling cards to arrive, as usual. In the unlikely event that they don't, I can always kick up a fuss afterwards.

Shanks-mare to your local library, council office or Garda station or you'll be told you didn't exhaust the check sources available to you way before the referendum to ensure your name is on the list before 04 May, or 14 May, whichever of them is the last day you can apply to be put on the list.....

smokingman

My sister just found out she's been deregistered after voting in the same place for 22 years.
Hmmmmm...

recedite

smokingman wrote: »

My sister just found out she's been deregistered after voting in the same place for 22 years.
Hmmmmm...

She needs to ask who did it, and why.

aloyisious

Another thing is to find out/recall when was the last time you had a visit from the Door-To-Door electoral list people, and if they were told you were resident there, confirm that your council entered the result correctly. It might be worthwhile having the issue raised in Kildare St.