Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

Zubeneschamali · 26-05-2018 8:53pm

end of the road wrote: »

the 12 weeks unrestricted was why i and many others voted no . no other reason.

And you lost, fair and square, so 12 weeks it shall be.

Zubeneschamali · 26-05-2018 8:56pm

aloyisious wrote: »

would they have voted YES?

No, they would have found another excuse. The No crew on TV admitted as much - that they would oppose abortion for rape victims. They opposed PoLDPA granting abortion where the womans life is at risk.

They pretend they are only against abortion on demand and are cool with all the "hard cases", but there are specific examples of them opposing each and every hard case because it might lead to abortion on demand.

AllForIt · 26-05-2018 9:02pm

Zubeneschamali, you are free to think what you like but I can tell you that the only reason I was conflicted about was the 12 week issue. I don't agree that an ovary or semen is human life but I do believe that at least a brain and a heart that has formed is a human life. I have no problem with women taking an abortion pill after a short period after conception, none at all. Yes there are some ppl who exist as you describe but I think they are very few out of the 34% that voted no.

ohnonotgmail · 26-05-2018 9:04pm

AllForIt wrote: »

Zubeneschamali, you are free to think what you like but I can tell you that the only reason I was conflicted about was the 12 week issue. I don't agree that an ovary or semen is human life but I do believe that at least a brain and a heart that has formed is a human life. I have no problem with women taking an abortion pill after conception, none at all. Yes there are some ppl who exist as you describe but I think they are very few out of the 34% that voted no.

a 12 week old fetus has nothing resembling a working brain.

Zubeneschamali · 26-05-2018 9:05pm

AllForIt wrote: »

I do believe that at least a brain and a heart that has formed is a human life.

No worries at 12 weeks so.

AllForIt · 26-05-2018 9:13pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a 12 week old fetus has nothing resembling a working brain.

Correct - it has nothing like a fully developed brain. I should have said simply 'a' brain.

end of the road · 26-05-2018 9:19pm

AllForIt wrote: »

Zubeneschamali, you are free to think what you like but I can tell you that the only reason I was conflicted about was the 12 week issue. I don't agree that an ovary or semen is human life but I do believe that at least a brain and a heart that has formed is a human life. I have no problem with women taking an abortion pill after a short period after conception, none at all. Yes there are some ppl who exist as you describe but I think they are very few out of the 34% that voted no.

exactly. he and others can think what they like about those of us who voted no . i personally don't care, i stand by my decisian.

Zubeneschamali · 26-05-2018 9:20pm

end of the road wrote: »

i stand by my decisian.

Well of course! I wouldn't expect you to change your mind just because you were outvoted.

ohnonotgmail · 26-05-2018 9:22pm

AllForIt wrote: »

Correct - it has nothing like a fully developed brain. I should have said simply 'a' brain.

what significance do attach to a non-working brain?

AllForIt · 26-05-2018 9:29pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what significance do attach to a non-working brain?

I could answer that but I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole again today. It has been decided and I think bickering any further about it is just pointless.

aloyisious · 26-05-2018 9:33pm

@recedite AND antiskeptic: If the 12 week period had not been in the proposed legislation, would either/both of you have voted yes? Your silence so far is deafening. I'd be obliged if your reply-responses were just to the question and not what we've spent an age passing to and fro up til now.

Zubeneschamali · 26-05-2018 9:40pm

If 12 weeks had not been in the proposal, No voters would have said Don't trust politicians, it is Abortion on demand in disguise!

We know this, because they said that even when it was right in front of them and not disguised at all. They were obviously prepared for a Hard Cases campaign, and confused when the .CA skipped that step and went straight for the real goal.

aloyisious · 26-05-2018 9:48pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If 12 weeks had not been in the proposal, No voters would have said Don't trust politicians, it is Abortion on demand in disguise!

We know this, because they said that even when it was right in front of them and not disguised at all. They were obviously prepared for a Hard Cases campaign, and confused when the .CA skipped that step and went straight for the real goal.

Reading the responses from the LoveBoth spokespeople to the vote result today, it seem's that group are of that determination.

DellyBelly · 26-05-2018 10:08pm

Was thinking of heading to Donegal for a staycation this summer but after that vote i ain't heading up to that redneck county. Must be full of hillbillies!

aloyisious · 26-05-2018 10:15pm

DellyBelly wrote: »

Was thinking of heading to Donegal for a staycation this summer but after that vote i ain't heading up to that redneck county. Must be full of hillbillies!

I'll think you might find the county has a large representation of the protestant christian belief.

The BBC1 news has the referendum result as it's first news item, and I think BBC1 is the Beeb's N/I channel. It has a NO campaigner, Katie Fenton, saying the campaign stand's over it's words about abortion on demand.

AllForIt · 26-05-2018 10:32pm

DellyBelly wrote: »

Was thinking of heading to Donegal for a staycation this summer but after that vote i ain't heading up to that redneck county. Must be full of hillbillies!

What an uncalled for ignorant comment. It was very close in Donegal. I'm sure they won't miss you either.

end of the road · 26-05-2018 10:41pm

AllForIt wrote: »

What an uncalled for ignorant comment. It was very close in Donegal. I'm sure they won't miss you either.

completely agree. had no been the outcome, those of us who voted no wouldn't have held it against those who voted yes and we wouldn't refuse to visit places because they voted yes.

BarleySweets · 26-05-2018 10:45pm

end of the road wrote: »

completely agree. had no been the outcome, those of us who voted no wouldn't have held it against those who voted yes and we wouldn't refuse to visit places because they voted yes.

Enough with the virtue signaling.

Just because he’s a Yes-voter, doesn’t mean the whole lot of us feel that way about Donegal, any other area that voted no, or No-voters in general.

end of the road · 26-05-2018 11:04pm

BarleySweets wrote: »

Enough with the virtue signaling.

no such thing, but that's a different topic.

BarleySweets wrote: »

Just because he’s a Yes-voter, doesn’t mean the whole lot of us feel that way about Donegal, any other area that voted no, or No-voters in general.

good, i'm glad to hear it.

Somegirl · 27-05-2018 12:18am

aloyisious wrote: »

I'll think you might find the county has a large representation of the protestant christian belief.

The BBC1 news has the referendum result as it's first news item, and I think BBC1 is the Beeb's N/I channel. It has a NO campaigner, Katie Fenton, saying the campaign stand's over it's words about abortion on demand.

Those protestants, up to no good as usual

Somegirl · 27-05-2018 12:23am

DellyBelly wrote: »

Was thinking of heading to Donegal for a staycation this summer but after that vote i ain't heading up to that redneck county. Must be full of hillbillies!

That's grand

King Mob · 27-05-2018 12:57am

aloyisious wrote: »

@recedite AND antiskeptic: If the 12 week period had not been in the proposed legislation, would either/both of you have voted yes? Your silence so far is deafening. I'd be obliged if your reply-responses were just to the question and not what we've spent an age passing to and fro up til now.

I'd also still like to know which immigrant group antiskeptic was talking about when he "questioned" if any of them would be aborting due to gender.
Also evidence for that.

aloyisious · 27-05-2018 1:20am

Somegirl wrote: »

Those protestants, up to no good as usual

I'm offspring from a Donegal U/P family - Devon RC family ne temere union so have kin on both sides of out national christian divide. Despite their differences, a good few are decent folk.

Cabaal · 27-05-2018 2:58pm

Delighted with the ref outcome, really shows that the general public saw through lies, misinformation and scaremongering of the no side. It's my firm belief that the no side doubled down and simply went too extreme for the avg joe.

I was talking to a women yesterday, she's very religious, holy water at the door, mass several times a week, jesus on the wall etc. She said the church had no place getting involved in this compaign, she was disgusted with what they said at masses.

end of the road · 27-05-2018 3:18pm

from what i can see, there was no lies, misinformation and scaremongering by the no side. there was the brutal truth, facts and reality of abortion however. perhapse the reality was indeed to much to hear and see for the people, who knows.
i do believe it was a lot better then the fluffy language and all else put forward by the yes side which hid from the reality of what would happen once the 8th was repealed though. the yes side should have been fully open on every single reason why they wanted us to vote yes

King Mob · 27-05-2018 3:23pm

end of the road wrote: »

from what i can see, there was no lies, misinformation and scaremongering by the no side.

Like say someone implying that a group of foreigners would abuse the system to abort based on gender?

So is that a not lie, misinformation or scaremongering?
Or did you just not see it?

HandsomeBob · 27-05-2018 4:13pm

Before the match last night we were talking about it. I'm not a father but my brother and his mate are, and they voted yes, but they told me what an ultrasound looks like at 12 weeks.

I voted yes also, but what they said made me falter a bit. At the end of the day I just had to remind myself why I voted yes; it's not for me to judge anyone.

robindch · 27-05-2018 5:06pm

DellyBelly wrote: »

Was thinking of heading to Donegal for a staycation this summer but after that vote i ain't heading up to that redneck county. Must be full of hillbillies!

A doctor in Donegal suggests that there's more to the results of vote than you're suggesting here.

https://twitter.com/JuniorDoctorIE/status/1000418118680838144

Odhinn · 27-05-2018 7:45pm

David Quinn moaning wrote:

For years, liberals insisted that the voice of minorities must be listened to. They are singing a very different tune now that those who believe in the right to life of the unborn are in a minority

https://twitter.com/DavQuinn/status/1000733731513085954

Once again Mr Quinn confuses granting freedom to do something with forcing everyone to do something.

recedite · 27-05-2018 8:45pm

aloyisious wrote: »

@recedite AND antiskeptic: If the 12 week period had not been in the proposed legislation, would either/both of you have voted yes? Your silence so far is deafening. I'd be obliged if your reply-responses were just to the question and not what we've spent an age passing to and fro up til now.

FWIW I don't attach any importance to Harris's proposed legislation, because its not what we were voting on. People voted to give all future govts. a blank cheque on abortion, and that's what the current govt. have now.

Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

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