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Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

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    #9062
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,580 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    end of the road wrote: »
    i don't believe rape is a good enough reason for abortion.



    irrelevant, it will either be a man or woman which is good enough.

    Would you say that to your mother, sister, daughter?


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    #9063
    An_Toirpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭An_Toirpin


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Would you say that to your mother, sister, daughter?

    Yes 100%. Go back a few generations and we are all descended from rapists.


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    #9064
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    Yes 100%. Go back a few generations and we are all descended from rapists.

    what evidence do you have that we are all descended from rapists?


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    #9065
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    Yes 100%. Go back a few generations and we are all descended from rapists.

    Jesus Christ you must think very poorly of men.


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    #9066
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,580 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    Yes 100%. Go back a few generations and we are all descended from rapists.

    1, wasn't asking you

    2, says so much about the '"pro life" side that they would happily force a woman (even a child) to give birth to her rapists baby.


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    #9067
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    end of the road wrote: »
    the trying to make out that pro-choice are all innocent little flowers has already been saw through. why you keep trying to engage in that tactic is a mystery. there were elements on both sides engaging in insults.
    The mudslinging is still coming from the pro-forced birthing side (i.e., your side.)
    This will continue forever, lying, incitement, hatred, violence all part of the anti-human rights side's toolbox.


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    #9068
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,971 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    It is here, it is legal. The people have spoken.

    In a few months nothing will be said about it again. It is a personal journey, no one else's.

    Just hope the exclusion zone legislation comes in soon.


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    #9069
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,754 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    Yes 100%. Go back a few generations and we are all descended from rapists.

    And that says what exactly? Perhaps you could explain how it is relevant to this discussion, because from where I'm sitting it reads like tacitly condoning rape on the basis of tradition.


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    #9070
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Igotadose wrote: »
    The mudslinging is still coming from the pro-forced birthing side (i.e., your side.)
    This will continue forever, lying, incitement, hatred, violence all part of the anti-human rights side's toolbox.
    such tactics are coming from both sides. a small element of either but both sides are engaging in the same tactics. again, your attempt to paint your side as innocent little flowers with the other the big bad villens has been debunked, saw for what it is . pro-life are not anti-human rights, there is no human right to kill one's unborn child.
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    It is here, it is legal. The people have spoken.

    In a few months nothing will be said about it again. It is a personal journey, no one else's.

    Just hope the exclusion zone legislation comes in soon.
    the exclusion zone legislation isn't going to make any difference what so ever. those who believe in protesting outside clinics/hospitals or even gps will continue to do it regardless of the consiquences, as they do wherever else such exclusion zones exist.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #9071
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    end of the road wrote: »
    such tactics are coming from both sides. a small element of either but both sides are engaging in the same tactics. again, your attempt to paint your side as innocent little flowers with the other the big bad villens has been debunked, saw for what it is . pro-life are not anti-human rights, there is no human right to kill one's unborn child.


    the exclusion zone legislation isn't going to make any difference what so ever. those who believe in protesting outside clinics/hospitals or even gps will continue to do it regardless of the consiquences, as they do wherever else such exclusion zones exist.

    You never responded to this two weeks ago.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108965764&postcount=8650

    Can you provide evidence for your claims?


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    #9072
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    It is here, it is legal. The people have spoken.

    In a few months nothing will be said about it again. It is a personal journey, no one else's.

    Just hope the exclusion zone legislation comes in soon.

    You do realise that in the 46 years since Roe vs Wade that the protests and objections arguments have never ceased? And this is replicated all over the civilized world?
    One of the biggest rows in US politics last year was really to do with the appointment of a pro life Supreme Court Justice. There are pro and anti marches with thousands of participants on an almost monthly basis.
    You realise over 700000 people voted against abortion and they’re not going to go away?
    I think a lot of pro lifers are looking forward to exclusions zones. Let the rest of the world see peaceful protestors in Ireland being hauled away by the Gardai. Egged on by SF and the head of Amnesty International in Ireland Colm O Gorman.
    How’s that going to look?


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    #9073
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You do realise that in the 46 years since Roe vs Wade that the protests and objections arguments have never ceased? And this is replicated all over the civilized world?
    One of the biggest rows in US politics last year was really to do with the appointment of a pro life Supreme Court Justice. There are pro and anti marches with thousands of participants on an almost monthly basis.
    You realise over 700000 people voted against abortion and they’re not going to go away?

    I've no problem with people marching to voice their opposition to abortion or campaigns to restrict it. Freedom of speech is very important.

    I don't believe outside hospitals or GP surgeries are the places to do it. It's not about protest, it's about disrupting services and intimidating service users. The sooner we have exclusion zones the better.


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    #9074
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,562 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You do realise that in the 46 years since Roe vs Wade that the protests and objections arguments have never ceased? And this is replicated all over the civilized world?
    One of the biggest rows in US politics last year was really to do with the appointment of a pro life Supreme Court Justice. There are pro and anti marches with thousands of participants on an almost monthly basis.
    You realise over 700000 people voted against abortion and they’re not going to go away?

    And the 49.999% of the population who voted no to divorce didn't go away either. They, or the vast majority of them, just stopped pursuing the issue in any active way.


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    #9075
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I've no problem with people marching to voice their opposition to abortion or campaigns to restrict it. Freedom of speech is very important.

    I don't believe outside hospitals or GP surgeries are the places to do it. It's not about protest, it's about disrupting services and intimidating service users. The sooner we have exclusion zones the better.

    the better for who? such zones won't ultimately make any difference to the service users given that such zones don't work. they are flouted on a full time basis wherever they do exist and are essentially flushing money down the toilet. protests outside hospitals by the odd couple of people are not going to be stopped by exclusion zones as such people are happy to go to jail or more for the cause.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #9076
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I've no problem with people marching to voice their opposition to abortion or campaigns to restrict it. Freedom of speech is very important.

    I don't believe outside hospitals or GP surgeries are the places to do it. It's not about protest, it's about disrupting services and intimidating service users. The sooner we have exclusion zones the better.

    Protests against abortions are a feature outside abortion clinics all over the world for 50 years and are an accepted legitimate democratic right.
    Ireland doesn’t have abortion clinics so the protests are outside the maternity hospitals and GPs surgeries.
    Ireland led the way in plastic bags and smoking in the workplace and made headline news around the world in these desicions and SSM.
    I look forward to Ireland making headline news as the first civilized country where peaceful protestors will be dragged away by the nations police force, as demanded by Amnesty International and Sinn Fein, the champions of the underdog.


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    #9077
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    An_Toirpin wrote: »
    Yes 100%. Go back a few generations and we are all descended from rapists.

    https://twitter.com/scampwords/status/1016917004391886848?s=21

    Is it not a bedrock of 4th wave feminism that all heterosexual intercourse is rape? Did not Tom Ford state during the week that all men should be “penetrated” at least once in their lives so they know what it’s like.
    Above find Sara supporting a movement currently gaining momentum that demands mandatory vasectomies for all straight men.
    They’re just not sure wether it should commence in high school or college...


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    #9078
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    end of the road wrote: »
    i believe it is, as a fundamental women's right is to be born, to grow and to exist and be part of society on an equal footing. abortion kills unborn women.

    And using a rubber johnny kills thousands of unconceived ones. Someone should think of those poor children, just waiting to be conceived!
    end of the road wrote: »
    no women's rights are being put behind anything by us by being anti-AOD.
    So if the HSE had been granted the court order they were looking for, to physically restrain Ms Y rather than let her have an abortion, how exactly were they not removing any of her rights? Are you in the habit of being tied down and force fed when you ask for a medical procedure?
    end of the road wrote: »
    by being anti-AOD we are actually trying to promote women's rights as we believe unborn women have a right not to be killed so they can be born and live to their full potential and be part of society.

    Of course you can make almost the exact same claim against legal contraception: all those unconceived women have a right not to be killed when they're still only an X chromosome in their daddy's sperm!
    end of the road wrote: »
    AOD is only an allowence that can be taken away by a government with no real consiquence if such is needed. whatever about being anti-women, the humanist association are not very humanist given they are okay with unborn human beings being killed for absolutely any reason. i'm very prowd to be against AOD and to be for actual women's rights. suggesting that AOD is a woman's right is in my view an insult to the genuine struggles of women.
    You should tell Ms Y that, I'm sure she'd appreciate it. :mad:


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    #9079
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    end of the road wrote: »
    protests outside hospitals by the odd couple of people are not going to be stopped by exclusion zones as such people are happy to go to jail or more for the cause.
    But they'd never do anything like lie or threaten or harass someone...

    Going to answer any of my questions?
    Or continue to bravely ignore them?


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    #9080
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    And the 49.999% of the population who voted no to divorce didn't go away either. They, or the vast majority of them, just stopped pursuing the issue in any active way.

    And remember despite the whining and deliberate dishonest twisting of facts by some, even less people voted against repealing the 8th.

    None of our resident anti-abortionists have proposed how they will be any different, never mind how they plan on actually reversing the situation.


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    #9081
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,121 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    end of the road wrote: »
    i don't believe rape is a good enough reason for abortion.


    .............




    ...so not only does she have to deal with the rape and an unwanted pregnancy, but be forced to see out that pregnancy in what some would call a second rape.


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    #9082
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    end of the road wrote: »
    the better for who? such zones won't ultimately make any difference to the service users given that such zones don't work. they are flouted on a full time basis wherever they do exist and are essentially flushing money down the toilet. protests outside hospitals by the odd couple of people are not going to be stopped by exclusion zones as such people are happy to go to jail or more for the cause.

    And i would be happy to see them in jail. Some time in mountjoy might diminish their desire for protest.


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    #9083
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    volchitsa wrote: »
    And using a rubber johnny kills thousands of unconceived ones. Someone should think of those poor children, just waiting to be conceived!

    once abortion is being thought about we are long long past that stage. a stage which very very very very few would even have an issue with.
    volchitsa wrote: »
    So if the HSE had been granted the court order they were looking for, to physically restrain Ms Y rather than let her have an abortion, how exactly were they not removing any of her rights?

    because as far as i understand there is no right not to be phisically restrained. there is likely a certain criteria that has to be met if it is to be used, along with certain methods and training, however sometimes such methods have to be used as much as i don't like it.
    volchitsa wrote: »
    Are you in the habit of being tied down and force fed when you ask for a medical procedure?

    abortion on demand isn't a medical procedure as i see it. it's effectively along the lines of a cosmetic procedure in my view.
    volchitsa wrote: »
    Of course you can make almost the exact same claim against legal contraception: all those unconceived women have a right not to be killed when they're still only an X chromosome in their daddy's sperm!

    you can if you want but it's not relevant to abortion or to actual women's rights.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #9084
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    splinter65 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/scampwords/status/1016917004391886848?s=21

    Is it not a bedrock of 4th wave feminism that all heterosexual intercourse is rape? Did not Tom Ford state during the week that all men should be “penetrated” at least once in their lives so they know what it’s like.
    Above find Sara supporting a movement currently gaining momentum that demands mandatory vasectomies for all straight men.
    They’re just not sure wether it should commence in high school or college...


    how is this rant in any way relevant?


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    #9085
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,121 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    how is this rant in any way relevant?




    Pick an outlier minority of liberal opinions on vaguely related subjects and throw them at you as if you have to answer for them before progessing any further in the discussion.


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    #9086
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Pick an outlier minority of liberal opinions vaguely related subject and throw them at you as if you have to answer for them before progessing any further in the discussion.

    let alone the massive insecurity it shows posting such drivel.


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    #9087
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    end of the road wrote: »
    once abortion is being thought about we are long long past that stage. a stage which very very very very few would even have an issue with.

    you can if you want but it's not relevant to abortion or to actual women's rights.
    Kinda is though. Cause if I remember right, you were asked to explain the difference between sperm and eggs and a fetus and when exactly the person starts. You provided no answer and ran away.

    You do that for every difficult question.


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    #9088
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    how is this rant in any way relevant?

    Couple of pages ago a poster said that only pro life activists were muck-slingers. You don’t need to dig very much to unearth these gems.


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    #9089
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,580 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    King Mob wrote: »
    Kinda is though. Cause if I remember right, you were asked to explain the difference between sperm and eggs and a fetus and when exactly the person starts. You provided no answer and ran away.

    You do that for every difficult question.


    Don't even know why we bother with that poster anymore, given free reign by mods to soapbox, lie, and make any claim they want without any consequence. Best way to stop it now is just ignore it.


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    #9090
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Odhinn wrote: »
    ...so not only does she have to deal with the rape and an unwanted pregnancy, but be forced to see out that pregnancy in what some would call a second rape.

    my view would be that those who see a pregnancy out of rape as a second rape ultimately need to revaluate their view and i'd think legally, and certainly factually, they are incorrect. rape is rape, a disgusting act and crime which should see those who carry it out receive the full force of the law, however a pregnancy is not rape.
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    And i would be happy to see them in jail.

    i'm sure. i presume though it's only protesters you disagree with that you would be happy to see in jail.
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Some time in mountjoy might diminish their desire for protest.

    i'd doubt it somehow.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #9091
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    end of the road wrote: »
    i'm sure. i presume though it's only protesters you disagree with that you would be happy to see in jail.
    More just ones who go out of their way to harass and intimidate women, some of whom are vulnerable.

    We also asked you to explain why you and your buddies needed to protest outside these places in particular if your tactics weren't to harass and intimidate.

    You provided no answer and ran away.


This discussion has been closed.
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