Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

Timberrrrrrrr

robindch wrote: »

If the process is followed, then yes, it gets done.

I shouldn't need to point out that the process isn't complicated, but almost nobody's been able to follow it - heavens! - here it is again. Find a link to a claim, find a link to a request to substantiate that claim, find a link to whatever substantiation (or none) which has been provided after a few days, put all three links into an PM and send it off for adjudication. So far, memory suggests that just one poster was able to follow this process. Frankly, it's using a sledgehammer to crack an eggshell as posters should be able to do this stuff themselves without needing moderator intervention, but hey, that's our job!

I believe the last discussion i read on this (maybe a different forum) and we were told that only the poster knows if they are blatantly lying, if they claim.they are not lying then nothing could be done.

Fwiw i have that particular.poster blocked now but it's really annoying to see the soapboxing continues when said poster is quoted.

Anywho, this is off topic so apologies for the rant, P.M also sent to apologise for discussing mod/on thread decisions.

King Mob

robindch wrote: »

And there's a process outlined here which deals with posters who make repeated unsubstantiated claims.
.

And after adhering to this process it was found that end's tactics were acceptable and within the bounds of the charter, so would not be subject to mod action.

I believe that this because end isn't making direct explicit statements of fact that include precise figures and is careful to stay on the right side of "technically not wrong".
Robindch also tells me that it's perfectly acceptable for him to ignore and dodge any questions he likes as that is also not disallowed by the charter.
So reporting him is a waste of everyone's time.

robindch

King Mob wrote: »

Robindch also tells me that it's perfectly acceptable for him to ignore and dodge any questions he likes as that is also not disallowed by the charter.

When speaking with somebody, it's conventional in English not to address them less in the third, and more in the first person, lest your third-personality be mistaken for incivility.

You're also heading into cardy territory, generally tonewise to start with. Thank you.

.......

robindch wrote: »

If the process is followed, then yes, it gets done.

I shouldn't need to point out that the process isn't complicated, but almost nobody's been able to follow it - heavens! - here it is again.

Perhaps that is a good reason to review it?

Remind me again why posters have to do this rather than moderators simply moderating?

King Mob

robindch wrote: »

When speaking with somebody, it's conventional in English not to address them less in the third, and more in the first person, lest your third-personality be mistaken for incivility.

You're also heading into cardy territory, generally tonewise to start with. Thank you.

Sorry, I didn't word that as clearly as I should have.
The "him" and "he" I was referring to there was end of the road.

robindch

King Mob wrote: »

King Mob wrote: »

robindch wrote: »

[...] there's a process outlined [...]

Robindch also tells me that [...]

The "him" and "he" I was referring to there was end of the road.

The third-person text I was referring to is "Robindch also tells me..." while you were responding to a post of mine :rolleyes:

robindch

HSE takes action over misleading "pregnancy options" website:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/hse-takes-action-over-allegedly-misleading-pregnancy-options-website-1.3792806

Irish Times wrote:

The Health Services Executive has brought High Court proceedings against a man whom it alleges has set up a misleading website confusingly similar to the HSE’s crisis pregnancy freephone service “My Options”. The HSE also claims Eamonn Murphy has established a website passing off the HSE’s “My Options” service. It claims that, through a website entitled www.myoptions.website, Mr Murphy is inappropriately offering pregnancy scans, trying to convince women not to go ahead with abortions or berating those who have chosen to undergo a termination.

Late last year, the HSE secured a contract to run a freephone information and confidential counselling service, the first point of contact between it and the public. The HSE website – myoptions.ie – went live late last year and the phone service commenced in January. In its proceedings, the HSE says that, in recent weeks, it became aware of a website called www.myoptions.website.

It claims that website contains Mr Murphy’s phone number, promises a free ultrasound and had at one point hosted a video claiming a link between cancer and abortion. That video has been removed, it says. Mr Murphy, with an address at Finglas Road, Dublin 11, is alleged to have registered the domain name shortly after the Minister for Health publicly announced the name of the HSE’s service.

The HSE claims Mr Murphy’s actions are not a coincidence, are leading to substantial confusion and damaging the goodwill and reputation of the HSE’s service. It says women are finding the defendant when they intend to find the service operated by the HSE.

It claims the other website is also giving the impression Mr Murphy is offering services in connection with the HSE or that objective counselling and information services are being provided. The HSE says it has called on Mr Murphy to either remove or rename the website but he has failed to do so.

It is seeking various orders, including restraining Mr Murphy or any other person acting under his control using the sign “My Options” or any other confusingly similar sign similar to the HSE’s mark “My Options” to denote pregnancy-related counselling or information services. It also seeks an order directing Mr Murphy to transfer the domain name www.myoptions.website to the HSE and to immediately deliver up and destroy all stationery and promotional materials bearing the “My Options” brand.

When the matter came ex parte (one side only represented) before Ms Justice Leonie Reynolds at the High Court on Wednesday, the judge granted Michael Binchy BL, for the HSE, permission to serve short notice of the proceedings on Mr Murphy and returned the matter to Friday.

gctest50

Gwan the HSE, they'll make a lovely clinic out of his house for sale yet

https://touch.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/glasnevin/finglas-road-glasnevin-dublin-1853501

Credit Checker Moose

Injunction granted.
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0215/1029821-my-options/

The Health Services Executive has secured a temporary High Court injunction against a man who has allegedly set up a misleading website that is confusingly similar to the HSE's crisis pregnancy freephone service 'My Options'.

The temporary injunction was granted by Ms Justice Leonie Reynolds against Eamonn Murphy, who the HSE claims has established a website passing off the service known as 'My Options '

Mr Murphy denies any wrongdoing and had opposed the granting of an injunction that would result in him having to suspend the website called www.myoptions.website.

The order prevents Mr Murphy, or anyone under his control, from using a website he allegedly registered last month called www.myoptions.website, or any other variation of a website using the term 'my options' until further order of the court.

The judge said she was making the order in order to deal with the "immediate" and "clear confusion" that was being caused by the use of the term 'my options' in website names.

Representing himself, Mr Murphy had sought an adjournment in order to obtain lawyers to contest the injunction application.

However, as he was not prepared to offer the court an undertaking not to suspend the operation of www.myoptions.website until the case has been determined, the judge said she was putting a temporary order in place until both sides' cases are before the court.

The HSE, represented by Jonathan Newman, and Michael Binchy, claims Mr Muphy is inappropriately offering pregnancy scans, is trying to convince women not to go ahead with abortions, or berating those who have chosen to undergo a termination.

Mr Murphy, with an address at Finglas Road, Dublin 11, allegedly registered that website's domain name days after the Minister for Health publicly announced that the HSE's service would be called 'My Options'.

The HSE claims Mr Murphy's actions are not a coincidence, are leading to substantial confusion and damaging the goodwill and reputation of the HSE's service.

In December, the HSE secured the contract to run the freephone information and confidential counselling service, which is the first point of contact between it and the public.

Its website, www.myoptions.ie, went live late last year, and the phone service commenced in January.

The HSE says that in recent weeks it became aware of a website called www.myoptions.website, which contains Mr Murphy's phone number and promises a free ultrasound.

The HSE says that women are finding the defendant when they intend to find the service operated by the HSE.

The website is also giving the impression that Mr Murphy is offering services in connection with the HSE, or that objective counselling and information services are being provided, it is claimed.

The HSE says it asked him to remove or rename the website, but he has failed to do so.

In court, Mr Muphy denied any wrongdoing and said it was the HSE who was causing the confusion. He told the court that he wished to bring a counter-action against the HSE over the use of 'My Options'and the service it offers.

He also told the court that he intends to take an action over the HSE's myoptions.ie service because it was putting women's lives in "real danger".

Mr Murphy said that myoptions.website had been extremely successful and had hits from persons all over the world.

He said that the website is part of services he has provided for pregnant women for many years.

The services have been operated under many names including the Women's Counselling Network or the Good Counselling Network.

He said the service saved the lives of woman and babies. He also claimed that the service being operated by the HSE is flawed and had resulted in "the unlawful killing of babies".

In addition, he said that he had made a criminal complaint about the service, Minister for Health Simon Harris and doctors to gardaí.

Ms Justice Reynolds noting that the myoptions.website domain name was registered by Mr Murphy two days after the Minister for Health had announced that the service would be called 'My Options', said she was satisfied to make the temporary order.

That took the urgency out of the matter, the judge said.

She said Mr Murphy was free to continue to operate the lawful service he has been providing since the 1990s. Nobody was stopping him from doing that, she said.

However, any breach of that order the judge said would have serious consequences.

The matter will return before the court in two weeks' time.

.......

I have no doubt that the dangerous individual behind the scam MyOptions website will simply seek other ways to harm pregnant women.

aloyisious

According to the Journal.ie the judge also mentioned media reports regarding an individual who had sought to use the HSE’s service, but became unsure when she also came across Murphy’s website. The judge added that Murphy’s registration of the ‘My Options’ name in December could “only be construed as an attempt to confuse” individuals seeking to use the HSE’s service, and questioned his motives for doing so. She told him to immediately take steps to desist from using the ‘My Options’ name on any crisis pregnancy websites he operated, until the matter could be heard again in two weeks’ time. The Journal also published a photo of Mr Murphy.

gctest50

.


https://www.thejournal.ie/eamonn-murphy-high-court-my-options-4495278-Feb2019/

https://www.thejournal.ie/eamonn-murphy-high-court-my-options-4495278-Feb2019/

Credit Checker Moose

The government should simply seize the domain from him.

Bredabe

He referenced 'unlawful killing', putting aside the debate as to if its a baby or not, how is it unlawful?
I smell US interference in this.

gctest50

Bredabe wrote: »

He referenced 'unlawful killing', putting aside the debate as to if its a baby or not, how is it unlawful?
I smell US interference in this.

He's at that a while, it would seem the wildest things happen that crew -

he went to the Garda station to report unlawful killing and the very next day the Times UK emailed him !!!!1!!!!! :

.

gctest50

I suppose after they were exposed by The Times as claiming abortion turns women into child abusers they may be a bit upset

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bb13544a-35d7-11e8-9a8f-0b0aae019371



The Women’s Counselling Network, previously called the Women’s Centre, is located at 9 Berkeley Street in Dublin and was exposed by The Times as claiming abortion causes breast cancer and turns women into child abusers.

.

gctest50

Bredabe wrote: »

................

I smell US interference in this.

Back to the baby-selling again, a pregnancy "advice" agency, believed to have associations with the Irish anti-abortion movement were caught at illegal adoptions :


i suppose it only costs a few cents for them to light a candle n seek forgiveness - they must find it profitable

[url] https://www.rte.ie/news/1999/0830/3142-custody/[/url]


The High Court has ruled that the founder of a pregnancy counselling service had unlawful custody of a baby during the summer.

The baby had been born to a student who had sought help from the agency.

In a 32-page ruling delivered over the weekend, Ms Justice Laffoy said that the agency founder had "singularly failed" to show that the 21-year-old mother's decision to give her baby to the man and his wife for adoption was a free decision. She said that they had acted in a totally inappropriate manner in relation to the young mother.

The pregnancy advice agency at the centre of the case is believed to have associations with the Irish anti-abortion movement

A spokesman for the Adoption Board said that since the implementation of the 1998 Adoption Act private adoptions are illegal.

Those pregnancy "advice" places need regulation by the government to help stop that happening again


.

Hotblack Desiato

Vertical video should be a hanging offence

gctest50

Hanging is too good for vertical video producers

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/custody-case-couple-back-in-the-advice-business-26130345.html

EILISH O'REGAN Health Correspondent

December 30 1999 12:11 AM



THE founders of a pregnancy counselling service, who were ruled to have unlawful custody of a baby earlier this year, are now involved in a similar advice agency in Dublin.

A garda investigation is underway into the activities of the former Aadams Agency, which operated in Dublin and Cork, arising from the decision of the High Court last August.

The new agency, the Women's Counselling Network, is operating from Dorset St and is offering advice to women in crisis pregnancies.

Eamonn Murphy told the court that his business had been operating since 1995 as the Women’s Counselling Network , also known as the Good Counsel Network

.

aloyisious

gctest50 wrote: »

He's at that a while, it would seem the wildest things happen that crew -

he went to the Garda station to report unlawful killing and the very next day the Times UK emailed him !!!!1!!!!! :

.

Most peculiar video, leaves me wondering what he is moving on during it's making. As for the leak to the media, well...

gctest50

gctest50 wrote: »

Back to the baby-selling again, a pregnancy "advice" agency, believed to have associations with the Irish anti-abortion movement were caught at illegal adoptions :


i suppose it only costs a few cents for them to light a candle n seek forgiveness - they must find it profitable




Those pregnancy "advice" places need regulation by the government to help stop that happening again


.

They were supposed to be regulated under the proposal by labour in 2016

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/bill-to-tackle-rogue-crisis-pregnancy-agencies-430575.html

Around the same time as the story was published about the "clinic"
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/10/20/regulating-the-agencies/
Interesting that the same group are involved in protests in the UK apparently.

While physical premises can be shut down online advertising can't really be, so hopefully anyone needing advice makes sure that they contact the IFPA or HSE.

A register of know fake agencies could be set up and hosted by the HSE also if legislation allows

Loafing Oaf

[QUOTE=DubInMeath;109438094
A register of know fake agencies could be set up and hosted by the HSE also if legislation allows[/QUOTE]

Maybe better a list of recognised ones? then you can warn women that they approach anyone outside this list at their own risk.

Hotblack Desiato

gctest50 wrote: »

he went to the Garda station to report unlawful killing

That lackwit should be prosecuted for wasting Garda time.

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Maybe better a list of recognised ones? then you can warn women that they approach anyone outside this list at their own risk.

A list of both, a recognised legitimate list and one for know fake ones, even better?

aloyisious

DubInMeath wrote: »

A list of both, a recognised legitimate list and one for know fake ones, even better?

I'd be surprised if fake centres couldn't be controlled under existing health legislation, stop them masquerading as health advice centres putting women's lives at risk.

gctest50

All centres could be made put say a 40cm X 40cm APPROVED CENTRE sticker in the window to go with their new licence kinda thing

Not approved / no licence ? no sticker for you

No sticker ? get closed down by Gardai

Fake sticker ? Jail for you



Previously tried to steal babies ( like the case a few posts above ) - no licence for you ever

Bit like gun licences, pub licences, driving licences

Odhinn

RTE - "Today" with Sean O Rourke had a journalist on who had gone undercover with an anti-abortion group. Their plan is to target women attending facilities where abortions are carried out. They've been told to home in on women who look "upset" etc and try to refer them to anti-abortion run facilities. Fairly vile stuff - podcast should be up later.

Odhinn

More on the above

Minister for Health Simon Harris has described practices by a US anti-abortion group as chilling, manipulative and disrespectful of the democratic process.
Sidewalk Advocates for Life were the subject of an undercover investigation by the Times Ireland over a number of months.
The investigation revealed that the group is training people in Ireland to intercept women before they access abortion services to talk them out of it.
An undercover reporter received training material from Sidewalk Advocates for Life, including videos and documents.
The investigation revealed the group plans to get around new laws for exclusion or safe access zones by approaching women in car parks.
In a statement to the Times Ireland, the group said it is a "law-abiding organisation that teaches others to lovingly and peacefully reach out to women at abortion centres, offering them non-violent solutions to their crisis situation".

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2019/0218/1031284-abortion-services/

Podcast of this mornings show - relevant section is third down
https://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_seanorourke.xml

.......

Approaching women in carparks?

WTF!?!?!?

Odhinn

....... wrote: »

Approaching women in carparks?

WTF!?!?!?

..wearing high vis vests to "fit in", giving out what sound like "goodie bags" while they're at it.