Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

Cabaal

frostyjacks wrote: »

...... but also healthy babies, if the mother deems them an inconvenience. Progress indeed.

and gay couples getting married will cause children to be raised by wolves and tornadoes to destroy the planet
:rolleyes:

The amount of nonsense you spout frosty is just beyond silly at this stage, totally baseless claims.

You remind me of both the anti marriage equality and anti divorce ref people rolled together with the amount of poorly attempted fear-mongering you try create,

I'm sure if you really tried you could also include muslims in your comments more, perhaps suggest that the muslims will be the one's doing the abortions?

recedite

Absolam wrote: »

Supplying a drug which is not controlled isn't illegal... can you point to a UK law that prohibits supplying a drug not on the list of drugs controlled by the UK Misuse of Drugs Act, and show that it covers the supply of mifepristone and misoprostol? If it helps you at all, in Ireland a person can't (legally) supply Augmentin except under specified circumstances because it contains amoxicillin, a drug subject to prescription control under the Medicinal Products Prescription and Control of Supply Regulations. Obviously Irish laws don't apply in Spain

My point is that a drug can be available over the counter in one country, but be "prescription only" in a neighbouring country. Or not licensed at all.
If you take the drug from one jurisdiction and start supplying it in the other one, subverting the intention of the local regulations, you are probably breaking some law. I'm not going to pretend that I know the exact NI law in this case. I expect that the prosecution will make that known soon enough.

Cabaal

Of course cutting off part of the penis is for religious/to stop masturbation so its important.

Absolam

recedite wrote: »

My point is that a drug can be available over the counter in one country, but be "prescription only" in a neighbouring country. Or not licensed at all.
If you take the drug from one jurisdiction and start supplying it in the other one, subverting the intention of the local regulations, you are probably breaking some law. I'm not going to pretend that I know the exact NI law in this case. I expect that the prosecution will make that known soon enough.

So... you think they'll probably be sentenced for breaking a law that you don't know exists, and haven't bothered to find out if something vaguely like it does? What you're talking about is literally all in your imagination?

MrPudding

Absolam wrote: »

Call me cynical, but I doubt they'll re-offend. It's one thing to make a point and get some publicity for your cause knowing there's practically no chance of suffering for it, quite another to do it again facing the real possibility of up to ten years in jail. I suspect they'll figure they've done their part and it's up to others to keep up the momentum they've created.

I think you are probably right, but regardless, interesting times ahead.

MrP

Cabaal

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/05/26/knickers-to-the-eighth/

Outside the Dáil earlier.

Members and supporters of ROSA (Reproductive rights, against Oppression, Sexism and Austerity) hold a demonstration calling for the 8th amendment to be repealed.

Loafing Oaf

This is great:D

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-northern-ireland-abortion-laws-are-proving-that-the-troubles-were-nothing-but-a-silly-a7050561.

The Catholic and Protestant church in Northern Ireland agree almost any abortion must be illegal. It’s touching that, after all that’s gone on in the past, at last the two religions can come together as friends.

To bind the communities together even further, they should bring in more rules from the 12th century, like the ducking stool, or setting fire to people with a birthmark as they must be the Devil, which is why the beetroots went mouldy. Before long they’ll be wondering why they ever fell out at all.

They even call the law that bans the abortion pill an act against “taking noxious poison”. It’s so important to preserve this rarely used language. It goes to show, if feminists got their way we’d lose quaint phrases such as "arrested for imbibing of a noxious poison, the witch", and our speech would be all the poorer.

frostyjacks

Cabaal wrote: »

and gay couples getting married will cause children to be raised by wolves and tornadoes to destroy the planet
:rolleyes:

The amount of nonsense you spout frosty is just beyond silly at this stage, totally baseless claims.

You remind me of both the anti marriage equality and anti divorce ref people rolled together with the amount of poorly attempted fear-mongering you try create,

I'm sure if you really tried you could also include muslims in your comments more, perhaps suggest that the muslims will be the one's doing the abortions?

Well, since you bring it up, I imagine the Muslims would be happy to see the 8th repealed. They are outbreeding us, and if the 8th ever falls it'll be mostly native women availing of abortion, so the scales will tip even further in their favour. They will also show their kids how our morals have been completely eroded, our women can't keep their legs closed etc. and how their faith is superior to our Godless, liberal way of life. Just a theory.

PopePalpatine

frostyjacks wrote: »

They will also show their kids how our morals have been completely eroded, our women can't keep their legs closed etc. and how their faith is superior to our Godless, liberal way of life. Just a theory.

Wow, someone's projecting their saltiness.

Oh, and this will make for interesting reading.

robdonn

frostyjacks wrote: »

Well, since you bring it up, I imagine the Muslims would be happy to see the 8th repealed. They are outbreeding us, and if the 8th ever falls it'll be mostly native women availing of abortion, so the scales will tip even further in their favour. They will also show their kids how our morals have been completely eroded, our women can't keep their legs closed etc. and how their faith is superior to our Godless, liberal way of life. Just a theory.

Bit of a racist theory.

volchitsa

robdonn wrote: »

Bit of a racist theory.

Not to mention that if it had any value as an argument, it would be a lot more effective to go for an immediate ban on contraception! :rolleyes:

PopePalpatine

volchitsa wrote: »

Not to mention that if it had any value as an argument, it would be a lot more effective to go for an immediate ban on contraception! :rolleyes:

Sure birth rates drop as women get better access to education and the workforce, why not ban those too?

Besides, they're too prone to emotion and are taking jobs away from stoic, logical men. :rolleyes:

volchitsa

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Sure birth rates drop as women get better access to education and the workforce, why not ban those too?

Besides, they're too prone to emotion and are taking jobs away from stoic, logical men. :rolleyes:

Giving them the vote, that's where the rot really started, I always say!
:mad:

The Randy Riverbeast

frostyjacks wrote: »

Well, since you bring it up, I imagine the Muslims would be happy to see the 8th repealed. They are outbreeding us, and if the 8th ever falls it'll be mostly native women availing of abortion, so the scales will tip even further in their favour. They will also show their kids how our morals have been completely eroded, our women can't keep their legs closed etc. and how their faith is superior to our Godless, liberal way of life. Just a theory.

Where did all the Christians go?

volchitsa wrote: »

Not to mention that if it had any value as an argument, it would be a lot more effective to go for an immediate ban on contraception! :rolleyes:

Don't give him any ideas.

aloyisious

frostyjacks wrote: »

Well, since you bring it up, I imagine the Muslims would be happy to see the 8th repealed. They are outbreeding us, and if the 8th ever falls it'll be mostly native women availing of abortion, so the scales will tip even further in their favour. They will also show their kids how our morals have been completely eroded, our women can't keep their legs closed etc. and how their faith is superior to our Godless, liberal way of life. Just a theory.

Native women! You mean our women are going "native"? Hell's bells, that's the end of the Gael!

MrPudding

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Don't give him any ideas.

You say that as if they are things he has t considered.

MrP

robdonn

frostyjacks wrote: »

Well, since you bring it up, I imagine the Muslims would be happy to see the 8th repealed. They are outbreeding us, and if the 8th ever falls it'll be mostly native women availing of abortion, so the scales will tip even further in their favour. They will also show their kids how our morals have been completely eroded, our women can't keep their legs closed etc. and how their faith is superior to our Godless, liberal way of life. Just a theory.

So to clarify, are you worried that Muslims will outnumber Irish people (which is ridiculous since there are lots of Muslims who are Irish people) or that Muslims will outnumber Christians? If it's the latter then isn't that a Christian problem and not ours? If abortion is made legal in Ireland then Christians (and everyone else) have the choice to have one or not should they find themselves pregnant. So you can blame the law all you want, but it's not the law's problem if Christians choose to avail of the service.

So instead of telling everyone to ban abortions at all costs, why don't Christians just preach to their own people not to avail of the service?

volchitsa

robdonn wrote: »

So you can blame the law all you want, but it's not the law's problem if Christians choose to avail of the service.

So instead of telling everyone to ban abortions at all costs, why don't Christians just preach to their own people not to avail of the service?

They've been doing that for a long time, but for some odd reason the Christians most directly concerned, the pregnant ones, don't always seem to listen. Hence the need to use force of law to make them obey, I suppose.

Cabaal

frostyjacks wrote: »

Well, since you bring it up, I imagine the Muslims would be happy to see the 8th repealed. They are outbreeding us, and if the 8th ever falls it'll be mostly native women availing of abortion, so the scales will tip even further in their favour. They will also show their kids how our morals have been completely eroded, our women can't keep their legs closed etc. and how their faith is superior to our Godless, liberal way of life. Just a theory.

So much hatred towards both women and Muslims,
so you hold both sexist and racist theory's, you'll be a lucky catch for whichever women or man you hook up with

Cabaal

robdonn wrote: »

So instead of telling everyone to ban abortions at all costs, why don't Christians just preach to their own people not to avail of the service?

Pfft,
because clearly Christian's can't be trusted and they don't even trust people of their own faith, especially those dirty christian women who apparently can't keep their legs crossed.

robdonn

What Is Life? Is Death Real?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOCaacO8wus

Thought that this video might be somewhat relevant to some of the discussions that go on in this thread. It doesn't actually try to answer the question, but it's still really interesting! (Currently binging this YouTube channel.)

Cabaal

http://www.thejournal.ie/repeal-the-8th-citizens-assembly-2799737-Jun2016/

NO GOVERNMENT TENDER has been issued for a polling company the government says it will contract to source people for a promised Citizen’s Assembly.

Taoiseach Enda Kenny told the Dáil that a polling company would decide the makeup of the assembly. The Fine Gael-led government committed to setting up a citizen’s assembly which would discuss the Eighth Amendment – among other issues – in the first six months of its term.

But it has now emerged that the tendering process has not started for the job, despite this October deadline (being generous and only counting from when Enda Kenny was elected Taoiseach of the 32nd Dáil).

Cabaal

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/03/no-response/

Further to yesterday’s post on Taoiseach Enda Kenny’s misleading comments about the 8th amendment in the Dáil, and the subsequent call from the group TFMR Ireland (Termination for Medical Reasons) for him to correct the Dáil record…

Ellen Coyne, in The Times Ireland edition today, reports:

Ruth Coppinger, the socialist TD for Dublin West, had tried to correct Mr Kenny after he made his comments in the Dail.

“Nobody in 33 years has ever had a vote on the Eighth Amendment, and the taoiseach either doesn’t know that or deliberately gave the impression that they had,” Ms Coppinger said.

“When people were given the opportunity in 1992 and 2002 to vote to make abortion even more restrictive, they rejected it. The taoiseach is completely incorrect, people do not want to keep the Eighth Amendment.”

...The Department of the Taoiseach did not respond to requests for a comment.

sigh

He's just going to kick this can down the road for another government and generation to deal with, its pathetic and meanwhile women receive no proper care and support.

robdonn

Cabaal wrote: »

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/03/no-response/



sigh

He's just going to kick this can down the road for another government and generation to deal with, its pathetic and meanwhile women receive no proper care and support.

I don't understand why he's kicking it down the road, it's not like he's going back for re-election. Everyone knows that he's retiring soon.

eviltwin

robdonn wrote: »

I don't understand why he's kicking it down the road, it's not like he's going back for re-election. Everyone knows that he's retiring soon.

He's personally pro life but I think everyone knows that Ireland would vote to introduce abortion. I'd imagine for someone with his belief system he doesn't want that to be his legacy.

Absolam

Everyone except the ones who don't? Which would at least appear to include the politicians not crawling over each other to bring that vote about, thereby ensuring their own re-election....

volchitsa

eviltwin wrote: »

He's personally pro life but I think everyone knows that Ireland would vote to introduce abortion. I'd imagine for someone with his belief system he doesn't want that to be his legacy.

Yes, I think that ties in with the way the POLDP act was emptied of much or all of its substance, specially as it didn't have much to be emptied of in the first place.

Funny that the pro-lifers portrayed him as an abortionist when he gave them pretty much what they wanted - an act that quite possibly grants fewer effective rights than the SC's judgments did previous to the act being passed.

Absolam

Absolam wrote: »

Everyone except the ones who don't? Which would at least appear to include the politicians not crawling over each other to bring that vote about, thereby ensuring their own re-election....

The averages of averages problem rearing its head here.

Absolam

Deleted User wrote: »

The averages of averages problem rearing its head here.

The problem that the average politician thinks their average chance of being re-elected by their average constituents will go down if they act to introduce more readily available abortion? Could be.

Absolam

volchitsa wrote: »

Yes, I think that ties in with the way the POLDP act was emptied of much or all of its substance, specially as it didn't have much to be emptied of in the first place.

It's a fairly novel notion; the POLDPA seems to contain all the substance necessary to implement the judgement of the European Court of Human Rights in A, B and C v Ireland by way of legislation, within the parameters of the Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court in the X case, and to make appropriate amendments to the criminal law as needed to give it effect.
Undoubtedly the substance that pro-choice advocates expected to be in it wasn't, but really that's a different assertion entirely

In the meantime, the substance of the Act provides an accessible and effective procedure to enable women to establish whether they are qualified for a lawful termination of their pregnancy in accordance with Article 40.3.3, provides information on when terminating a pregnancy is lawful, still in accordance with Article 40.3.3, creates procedures which apply to the lawful termination of pregnancy, and amends criminal law to provide an offense when such a termination is carried out unlawfully. Hard to see what substance could have been emptied from it that was necessary when that's what it contains right now.

I think it's much more likely that some people thought the POLDPA would introduce at will abortion by allowing women to simply say they were suicidal, maybe jump through a nominal hoop, and thereby obtain an abortion, effectively at will. When it turned out that it wouldn't, suddenly the Act was 'not fit for purpose' and 'emptied of substance'.