Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

robdonn

Absolam wrote: »

Just not enough of them to convince 53% of politicians to have an opinion on the matter...

Correction: Just not enough of them to convince 53% of politicians to state an opinion on the matter...

Absolam

robdonn wrote: »

Correction: Just not enough of them to convince 53% of politicians to state an opinion on the matter...

That's a fair correction

aloyisious

Absolam wrote: »

I've given it some thought and I can't say I do; I've no idea if he's even inclined to definitive fixed positions. What do you think?

I think I agree with you on this.

Cabaal

Complete an utter tool Pro Life staying classy as always

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/08/oxy-moron/

https://twitter.com/ProLifeLegend/status/740327234045628416





He's clearly one of those complete idiots (in good company with Quinn) who also confuses marriage equality and abortion as related issues

https://twitter.com/ProLifeLegend/status/740322798208487424

The pro life groups would like to think that this sort of idiotic mindset in relation to rape and pregnancy's is not common amongst pro life followers, but its evident alot of complete idiots exist on the pro-life side that have complete miss conceptions that are no way based in reality

Todd "women's body shuts down that sort of thing" Akin is a fine example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fetFNTgqE6o

robdonn

Cabaal wrote: »

Complete an utter tool Pro Life staying classy as always

....

Babies cure rape. Fact.

volchitsa

robdonn wrote: »

Babies cure rape. Fact.

So on the one hand a woman's body shuts down on being raped, so she doesn't get pregnant, presumably because of the trauma that would cause, but on the other hand, it's ok if she gets pregnant because all she has to do is give birth and she's cured?

Bit tough on the victims of rape who don't get pregnant, isn't it? They're missing out on a great cure.

And a bit cynical to suggest using a baby as medical treatment for its mother, I'd have thought.

expectationlost

robdonn wrote: »

We asked every TD if they want to repeal the Eighth Amendment - here's what they said







TD/Minister | Party | Constituency | Response to Q1 | Response to Q2
Mick Barry | AAA-PBP | Cork North-Central | YES | YES
Gino Kenny | AAA-PBP | Dublin Mid-West | YES | YES
Bríd Smith | AAA-PBP | Dublin South-Central | YES | YES
Paul Murphy | AAA-PBP | Dublin South-West | YES | YES
Ruth Coppinger | AAA-PBP | Dublin West | YES | YES
Richard Boyd Barrett | AAA-PBP | Dún Laoghaire | YES | YES
Brendan Smith | Fianna Fáil | Cavan-Monaghan | NO | NO
Niamh Smyth | Fianna Fáil | Cavan-Monaghan | DNR | DNR
Timmy Dooley | Fianna Fáil | Clare | DNR | DNR
Kevin O'Keeffe | Fianna Fáil | Cork East | NO | NO
Michael Moynihan | Fianna Fáil | Cork North-West | DNR | DNR
Micheál Martin | Fianna Fáil | Cork South-Central | OTHER | OTHER
Michael McGrath | Fianna Fáil | Cork South-Central | DNR | DNR
Margaret Murphy-O’Mahony | Fianna Fáil | Cork South-West | DNR | DNR
Seán Haughey | Fianna Fáil | Dublin Bay North | DNR | DNR
Jim O'Callaghan* | Fianna Fáil | Dublin Bay South | NO | NO
John Curran | Fianna Fáil | Dublin Mid-West | DNR | DNR
John Lahart | Fianna Fáil | Dublin South-West | DON'T KNOW | DON'T KNOW
Jack Chambers | Fianna Fáil | Dublin West | DNR | DNR
Anne Rabbitte | Fianna Fáil | Galway East | NO | NO
Éamon Ó Cuív | Fianna Fáil | Galway West | NO | NO
John Brassil | Fianna Fáil | Kerry | DNR | DNR
Seán O'Fearghaíl | Fianna Fáil | Kildare South | DNR | DNR
Fiona O'Loughlin | Fianna Fáil | Kildare South | DNR | DNR
Willie O'Dea | Fianna Fáil | Limerick City | NO | NO
Robert Troy | Fianna Fáil | Longford-Westmeath | DNR | DNR
Barry Cowen | Fianna Fáil | Fianna Fáil | NO | NO
Pat 'The Cope' Gallagher | Fianna Fáíl | Donegal | NO | NO
Charlie McConalogue | Fianna Fáíl | Donegal | DNR | DNR
Bobby Aylward | Fianna Fáil | Carlow-Kilkenny | NO | OTHER
John McGuinness | Fianna Fáil | Carlow-Kilkenny | DNR | DNR
Billy Kelleher | Fianna Fáil | Cork North-Central | DNR | DNR
Darragh O'Brien | Fianna Fáil | Dublin Fingal | DNR | DNR
James Lawless | Fianna Fáil | Kildare North | NO | NO
Frank O'Rourke | Fianna Fáil | Kildare North | DNR | DNR
Seán Fleming | Fianna Fáil | Laois | DNR | DNR
Niall Collins | Fianna Fáil | Limerick County | DNR | DNR
Declan Breathnach | Fianna Fáil | Louth | NO | YES
Dara Calleary | Fianna Fáil | Mayo | DNR | DNR
Lisa Chambers | Fianna Fáil | Mayo | DNR | DNR
Thomas Byrne | Fianna Fáil | Meath East | NO | OTHER
Shane Cassells | Fianna Fáil | Meath West | NO | NO
Eugene Murphy | Fianna Fáil | Roscommon-Galway | DNR | DNR
Marc MacSharry | Fianna Fáil | Sligo-Leitrim | NO | OTHER
Eamon Scanlon | Fianna Fáil | Sligo-Leitrim | NO | NO
Jackie Cahill | Fianna Fáil | Tipperary | NO | OTHER
Mary Butler | Fianna Fáil | Waterford | DNR | DNR
James Browne | Fianna Fáil | Wexford | DNR | DNR
Pat Casey* | Fianna Fáil | Wicklow | YES | YES
Aindrias Moynihan | Fiannna Fáil | Cork North-West | DNR | DNR
Heather Humphreys | Fine Gael | Cavan-Monaghan | DNR | DNR
David Stanton | Fine Gael | Cork East | DNR | DNR
Dara Murphy | Fine Gael | Cork North-Central | DNR | DNR
Michael Creed | Fine Gael | Cork North-West | DNR | DNR
Jim Daly | Fine Gael | Cork South-West | DNR | DNR
Joe McHugh | Fine Gael | Donegal | DNR | DNR
Richard Bruton | Fine Gael | Dublin Bay North | DNR | DNR
Eoghan Murphy | Fine Gael | Dublin Bay South | DNR | DNR
Kate O'Connell | Fine Gael | Dublin Bay South | YES | YES
Alan Farrell | Fine Gael | Dublin Fingal | DON'T KNOW | DON'T KNOW
Frances Fitzgerald | Fine Gael | Dublin Mid-West | OTHER | OTHER
Noel Rock | Fine Gael | Dublin North-West | DNR | DNR
Josepha Madigan | Fine Gael | Dublin Rathdown | YES | YES
Catherine Byrne | Fine Gael | Dublin South-Central | DNR | DNR
Colm Brophy | Fine Gael | Dublin South-West | DNR | DNR
Leo Varadkar | Fine Gael | Dublin West | YES | YES
Seán Barrett | Fine Gael | Dún Laoghaire | DNR | DNR
Maria Bailey | Fine Gael | Dún Laoghaire | YES | YES
Mary Mitchell O'Connor | Fine Gael | Dún Laoghaire | DNR | DNR
Ciarán Cannon | Fine Gael | Galway East | DNR | DNR
Seán Kyne | Fine Gael | Galway West | DNR | DNR
Hildegarde Naughton | Fine Gael | Galway West | DNR | DNR
Brendan Griffin | Fine Gael | Kerry | DNR | DNR
Bernard Durkan | Fine Gael | Kildare North | OTHER | OTHER
Martin Heydon | Fine Gael | Kildare South | DNR | DNR
Charlie Flanagan | Fine Gael | Laois | DNR | DNR
Michael Noonan | Fine Gael | Limerick City | DNR | DNR
Tom Neville | Fine Gael | Limerick County | DNR | DNR
Patrick O'Donovan | Fine Gael | Limerick County | DNR | DNR
Peter Burke | Fine Gael | Longford-Westmeath | NO | NO
Peter Fitzpatrick | Fine Gael | Louth | DNR | DNR
Fergus O'Dowd* | Fine Gael | Louth | YES | YES
Regina Doherty | Fine Gael | Meath East | DNR | DNR
Helen McEntee | Fine Gael | Meath East | DNR | DNR
Damien English | Fine Gael | Meath West | DNR | DNR
Marcella O'Corcoran-Kennedy | Fine Gael | Fine Gael | DNR | DNR
Tony McLoughlin | Fine Gael | Sligo-Leitrim | DON'T KNOW | YES
Michael D'Arcy | Fine Gael | Wexford | DNR | DNR
Paul Kehoe | Fine Gael | Wexford | DNR | DNR
Andrew Doyle | Fine Gael | Wicklow | NO | OTHER
Simon Harris | Fine Gael | Wicklow | DNR | DNR
Pat Deering | Fine Gael | Carlow-Kilkenny | DNR | DNR
John Paul Phelan | Fine Gael | Carlow-Kilkenny | DNR | DNR
Pat Breen | Fine Gael | Clare | DNR | DNR
Joe Carey | Fine Gael | Clare | DNR | DNR
Simon Coveney | Fine Gael | Cork South-Central | DNR | DNR
Paschal Donohoe | Fine Gael | Dublin Central | DNR | DNR
Enda Kenny | Fine Gael | Mayo | OTHER | OTHER
Michael Ring | Fine Gael | Mayo | DNR | DNR
John Deasy | Fine Gael | Waterford | DNR | DNR
Eamon Ryan | Green Party | Dublin Bay South | YES | YES
Catherine Martin | Green Party | Dublin Rathdown | YES | YES
Denis Naughten | Independent | Roscommon-Galway | DNR | DNR
Michael Harty | Independent | Clare | DNR | DNR
Michael Collins | Independent | Cork South-West | NO | NO
Thomas Pringle | Independent | Donegal | YES | YES
Tommy Broughan | Independent | Dublin Bay North | YES | YES
Maureen O'Sullivan | Independent | Dublin Central | YES | YES
Katherine Zappone | Independent | Dublin South-West | YES | YES
Catherine Connolly | Independent | Galway West | YES | YES
Noel Grealish | Independent | Galway West | DNR | DNR
Michael Healy-Rae | Independent | Kerry | DNR | DNR
Danny Healy-Rae | Independent | Kerry | NO | NO
Michael Lowry | Independent | Tipperary | DNR | DNR
Mattie McGrath | Independent | Tipperary | NO | NO
Finian McGrath | Independent Alliance | Dublin Bay North | YES | YES
Shane Ross | Independent Alliance | Dublin Rathdown | DNR | DNR
Seán Canney | Independent Alliance | Galway East | NO | NO
Michael Fitzmaurice | Independent Alliance | Roscommon-Galway | DNR | DNR
Kevin 'Boxer' Moran | Independent Alliance | Longford-Westmeath | DNR | DNR
John Halligan | Independent Alliance | Waterford | DNR | DNR
Clare Daly | Independents4Change | Dublin Fingal | DNR | DNR
Joan Collins | Independents4Change | Dublin South-Central | YES | YES
Mick Wallace | Independents4Change | Wexford | DNR | DNR
Seán Sherlock | Labour | Cork East | YES | YES
Joan Burton | Labour | Dublin West | YES | YES
Jan O'Sullivan | Labour | Limerick City | YES | YES
Willie Penrose | Labour | Longford-Westmeath | DNR | DNR
Alan Kelly | Labour | Tipperary | YES | YES
Brendan Howlin | Labour | Wexford | YES | YES
Brendan Ryan | Labour | Dublin Fingal | DNR | DNR
Kathleen Funchion | Sinn Féin | Carlow-Kilkenny | DNR | DNR
Caoimghín Ó Caoláin | Sinn Féin | Cavan-Monaghan | YES | YES
Pat Buckley | Sinn Féin | Cork East | YES | YES
Jonathan O'Brien | Sinn Féin | Cork North-Central | YES | YES
Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire | Sinn Féin | Cork South-Central | YES | YES
Pearse Doherty | Sinn Féin | Donegal | DNR | DNR
Mary Lou McDonald | Sinn Féin | Dublin Central | YES | YES
Louise O'Reilly | Sinn Féin | Dublin Fingal | YES | YES
Eoin Ó Broin | Sinn Féin | Dublin Mid-West | YES | YES
Dessie Ellis | Sinn Féin | Dublin North-West | YES | YES
Aengus Ó Snodaigh | Sinn Féin | Dublin South-Central | DNR | DNR
Seán Crowe | Sinn Féin | Dublin South-West | YES | YES
Martin Ferris | Sinn Féin | Kerry | YES | YES
Brian Stanley | Sinn Féin | Laois | DNR | DNR
Maurice Quinlivan | Sinn Féin | Limerick City | YES | YES
Gerry Adams | Sinn Féin | Louth | YES | YES
Imelda Munster | Sinn Féin | Louth | DNR | DNR
Peadar Tóibín | Sinn Féin | Meath West | DNR | DNR
Carol Nolan | Sinn Féin | Offaly | DNR | DNR
Martin Kenny | Sinn Féin | Sligo-Leitrim | DNR | DNR
David Cullinane | Sinn Féin | Waterford | YES | YES
John Brady | Sinn Féin | Wicklow | YES | YES
Denise Mitchell | Sinn Féin | Dublin Bay North | YES | YES
Catherine Murphy | Social Democrat | Kildare North | YES | YES
Stephen Donnelly | Social Democrat | Wicklow | YES | YES
Róisín Shortall | Social Democrats | Dublin North-West | YES | YES
Séamus Healy | WUAG | Tipperary | YES | YES

Tommy Broughan is a member of the registered political party Independents4Change

Pherekydes

Cabaal wrote: »

Complete an utter tool Pro Life staying classy as always

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/08/oxy-moron/

https://twitter.com/ProLifeLegend/status/740327234045628416

Giving birth provides immunity from breast cancer? Who knew? Not me anyway...

PopePalpatine

I think it's a rehashing of the auld "abortion causes breast cancer" belief from a few years ago.

Absolam

More likely it's a reference to (or extrapolation from) the fact that the more children women have, and the more they breastfeed, the lower their risk of breast cancer is, though of course it's possible that Lizzanne is only aware of earlier studies that do show a link between abortion and breast cancer, and not the later ones that don't. Hard to say how comprehensive her available information is from a tweet.

Pherekydes

Absolam wrote: »

More likely it's a reference to (or extrapolation from) the fact that the more children women have, and the more they breastfeed, the lower their risk of breast cancer is.

Bit of an extrapolation to go from some reduced risk to "...doesn't risk breast cancer", wouldn't you say?

Anyone with breasts has a risk of developing breast cancer. And many of those who do develop BC will be mothers, who have multiple births and have breast fed. Having multiple births and breastfeeding might reduce risk, but nothing will eliminate it.

Absolam

Pherekydes wrote: »

Bit of an extrapolation to go from some reduced risk to "...doesn't risk breast cancer", wouldn't you say?
Anyone with breasts has a risk of developing breast cancer. And many of those who do develop BC will be mothers, who have multiple births and have breast fed. Having multiple births and breastfeeding might reduce risk, but nothing will eliminate it.

I would indeed. We could blame ignorance, or the limitations of social media, or just the way people allow 'could be' to turn into 'is' when unchallenged, like we see on boards so often. Given it's twitter, I'm inclined to the 'more bothered about speed than precision' explanation myself... though a quick look at Lizzaannes twitter feed suggests a fairly troubled relationship with reality in any case. No harm in being charitable though.

volchitsa

Pherekydes wrote: »

Bit of an extrapolation to go from some reduced risk to "...doesn't risk breast cancer", wouldn't you say?

Anyone with breasts has a risk of developing breast cancer. And many of those who do develop BC will be mothers, who have multiple births and have breast fed. Having multiple births and breastfeeding might reduce risk, but nothing will eliminate it.

Another reason this Lizzaanne person is off her rocker is that pregnancy and the months afterwards are actually somewhat higher risk for breast cancer than usual. I discovered this because two friends were diagnosed a few years apart, one during pregnancy, the other when her baby was less than a year old. It's well-known by medics, when you know to ask them.

lazygal

volchitsa wrote: »

Another reason this Lizzaanne person is off her rocker is that pregnancy and the months afterwards are actually somewhat higher risk for breast cancer than usual. I discovered this because two friends were diagnosed a few years apart, one during pregnancy, the other when her baby was less than a year old. It's well-known by medics, when you know to ask them.

You mean pregnancy does carry risks in and of itself? You'd think the female body would have some way of shutting that stuff down.

Cabaal

I think if Ireland isn't going to support women in the below situations then they need to compensate them for costs, suffering etc, Money talks at the end of the day and I think its another reason why this farce needs to be sorted out once and for all.


http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/06/09/the-ashes-were-unexpectedly-delivered-to-her-three-weeks-later-by-courier/

The United Nations Human Rights Office of the High Commissioner writes:

A woman in Ireland who was forced to choose between carrying her foetus to term, knowing it would not survive, or seeking an abortion abroad was subjected to discrimination and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment as a result of Ireland’s legal prohibition of abortion, UN experts have found.

The independent experts, from the Geneva-based Human Rights Committee, issued their findings after considering a complaint by the woman, AM, who was told in November 2011 when she was in the 21st week of pregnancy that her foetus had congenital defects, which meant it would die in the womb or shortly after birth.

This meant she had to choose “between continuing her non-viable pregnancy or travelling to another country while carrying a dying foetus, at personal expense and separated from the support of her family, and to return while not fully recovered,” the Committee said.

AM decided to travel to the UK for a termination and returned 12 hours after the procedure as she could not afford to stay longer. The UK hospital did not provide any options regarding the foetus’s remains and she had to leave them behind. The ashes were unexpectedly delivered to her three weeks later by courier.

In Ireland, she was denied the bereavement counselling and medical care available to women who miscarry. Such differential treatment, the Committee noted, failed to take into account her medical needs and socio-economic circumstances and constituted discrimination.

“Many of the negative experiences she went through could have been avoided if (she) had not been prohibited from terminating her pregnancy in the familiar environment of her own country and under the care of health professionals whom she knew and trusted,” the Committee wrote in its findings.

The Committee said that, in addition to the shame and stigma associated with the criminalization of abortion of a fatally ill foetus, AM’s suffering was aggravated by the obstacles she faced in getting information about the appropriate medical options.

Ireland’s Abortion Information Act allows healthcare providers to give patients information about abortion, including the circumstances under which abortion services can be available in Ireland or overseas.

But under the law they are prohibited from, and could be sanctioned for, behaviour that could be interpreted as advocating or promoting the termination of pregnancy. This, according to the Committee, has a chilling effect on health-care providers, who struggle to distinguish “supporting” a woman who has decided to terminate a pregnancy from “advocating” or “promoting” abortion.

Ireland, which is a State party to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), is obliged to provide AM with an effective remedy, including adequate compensation and psychological treatment she may need, the Committee said. Ireland is also obliged to prevent similar violations from occurring.

“To this end, the State party should amend its law on voluntary termination of pregnancy, including if necessary its Constitution, to ensure compliance with the Covenant, including effective, timely and accessible procedures for pregnancy termination in Ireland, and take measures to ensure that health-care providers are in a position to supply full information on safe abortion services without fearing being subjected to criminal sanctions,” the Committee’s findings said.

In its observations to the Committee on AM’s claims, Ireland said that the country’s constitutional and legislative framework reflected “the nuanced and proportionate approach to the considered views of the Irish Electorate on the profound moral question of the extent to which the right to life of the foetus should be protected and balanced against the rights of the woman.”

The Human Rights Committee considered this case under the First Optional Protocol to the ICCPR Covenant which gives the Committee competence to examine individual complaints.

robindch

A gentleman with a terribly bad hairdo has convinced himself that "The gay rights flag is dripping with the blood of the unborn":

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/the-gay-rights-flag-is-dripping-with-the-blood-of-the-unborn

aloyisious

robindch wrote: »

A gentleman with a terribly bad hairdo has convinced himself that "The gay rights flag is dripping with the blood of the unborn":

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/the-gay-rights-flag-is-dripping-with-the-blood-of-the-unborn

He obviously missed this part of Planned Parenthood but maybe it would have further confused him as to what PP was about. His swipe at GLAAD seem's to be because it counter's what he "know's" about homo's and their reproductive capability. possibly on a "not outside real marriage" basis.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiIydrw75rNAhUBIMAKHQvvCC4Q6F4ILDAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FPPact%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc%255Egoogle%257Ctwcamp%255Eserp%257Ctwgr%255Eauthor&usg=AFQjCNH7icWidLu3jQ0gNF7gxvyIIp5KHg

This from para 10 of the UN report (Ireland is also obliged to prevent similar violations from occurring.) will probably annoy some people. Anyone got a twitter account to send it on to DQ's in time for his Friday Indo comment?

lazygal

robindch wrote: »

A gentleman with a terribly bad hairdo has convinced himself that "The gay rights flag is dripping with the blood of the unborn":

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/the-gay-rights-flag-is-dripping-with-the-blood-of-the-unborn

That's some quality bigotry.

JPNelsforearm

Just listening to Newstalk there during lunch, I dont like UN and the international rights law racket, especially their Irish mouthpiece in chief, but the as usual the Iona make them seem likeable in comparison. Always with the emotive hit points, if you did a shot every time the guy said "little baby", you'd be hammered.

That said, we shouldnt be implementing law at the behest of some UN racket and made up report. We should do it on our own.

Captain Flaps

Was on newstalk and then a notification for this thread popped up immediately

Glad I wasn't the only one who winced every time he said 'little baby'. Also loved the insistence on preserving the right of the child to be born and live for 30 seconds, effect on the mother be damned.

Pherekydes

lazygal wrote: »

You mean pregnancy does carry risks in and of itself? You'd think the female body would have some way of shutting that stuff down.

It's Intelligent Design, donchaknow!

lazygal

Pherekydes wrote: »

It's Intelligent Design, donchaknow!

Go easy on me. I haven't made it to the creationism museum yet.

aloyisious

lazygal wrote: »

That's some quality bigotry.

Shocked for a mo there, I thought you meant the reference to his hairdo.

robindch

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

[...] I dont like UN and the international rights law racket, especially their Irish mouthpiece in chief [...] some UN racket [...]

If you're going to whine about well-meaning and generally useful international rules and organizations, could you at least try to do it with some style?

This kind of comment sounds like it came from two-ulcer preacher in a four-ulcer parish.

Loafing Oaf

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

That said, we shouldnt be implementing law at the behest of some UN racket and made up report. We should do it on our own.

We voluntarily signed up to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights you know. Do you think it's acceptable for states to sign up to these treaties and then blithely ignore the bodies charged with implementing them?

ABC101

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

That said, we shouldnt be implementing law at the behest of some UN racket and made up report. We should do it on our own.

We voluntarily signed up to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights you know. Do you think it's acceptable for states to sign up to these treaties and then blithely ignore the bodies charged with implementing them?

Add your reply here.

The only committe / group who should be allowed to change the Irish constitution is the Irish people who are entitled to vote in these referendums.

Unless of course posters on here believe the Irish constitution should be modified to the whim of unelected unaccountable and unknown foreign self styled experts.

Perhaps Irish neutrality will be up next, so that young Irish men and women can be conscripted to fight some foreign war and in the process turn into cannon fodder.

aloyisious

Family & Life, a Pro-life group opposing abortion in ireland have posted on their F/B page that Abortion supporters have been banned from displaying a 'Repeal the 8th' banner at Galway United football matches after female fans of the club complained to management.

Family & Life claim that the same abortion campaigners are threatening to organize a boycott of the club. Included on the page is the image below of children playing football, presumably to show whose possible future is being destroyed by abortion. it doesn't actually claim the kids are in Galway United, a picture speaks volumes though.

This is one of the quotes on the page: Just heard the news the European court has directed Ireland to amend its abortion law after a woman who aborted her child due to supposedly foetal fatal abnormality took a case. They are determined to find away to force abortion on us and deny us our rights. I presume the writer of that quote may have mixed up the UN committee with the European court.

On a by the by, the case referred to by the UN Committee is being discussed now on RTE 1 radio, the JD show, with a couple who Joe's stand-in has said went through the same as the woman in the original case.

JPNelsforearm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

We voluntarily signed up to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights you know. Do you think it's acceptable for states to sign up to these treaties and then blithely ignore the bodies charged with implementing them?

Absolutely, whether those treaties are right or wrong is immaterial, they should not be put above our own laws, we should make our own laws and decide our future apropos of any international committee, court and their findings/opinions. That is why we have a constitution, a legal system, elected representatives, democracy etc.

Cabaal

ABC101 wrote: »

Add your reply here.

The only committe / group who should be allowed to change the Irish constitution is the Irish people who are entitled to vote in these referendums.

Come on so, lets vote on it,
While the UN can't change the constitution, they can pressure Ireland to have a vote on the matter.

Something that governments are choosing to avoid year after year, even though there is demand to allow people to vote on the matter.

The constitution isn't set in stone, it must reflect our society and right now many feel it does not best serve women in our society so its important we have a democratic right to vote on changing that

Loafing Oaf

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Absolutely, whether those treaties are right or wrong is immaterial, they should not be put above our own laws, we should make our own laws and decide our future apropos of any international committee, court and their findings/opinions. That is why we have a constitution, a legal system, elected representatives, democracy etc.

So say if FGM was legal and widely practiced in a country and the Human Rights Committee called on that country's government to outlaw the practice and try to stamp it out, that government should feel free to ignore the instruction? I don't see much point in such international covenants so...