Landlord issues

elle.en · 17-09-2015 1:38pm #1

Hi All,

Just wanted to get some viewpoints on a couple of issues:

Myself and some other girls have been renting a large gated house for the past few months. There is a large garden with the property, and the issue here is that the landlord lets himself into the garden whenever he pleases with no notice whatsoever. He'll never enter the house or anything like that but am I right in thinking he shouldn't be coming into the grounds either? I would imagine if it was a family renting the house there would be uproar.

Secondly, a while ago he put a "chalet" type building at the side of the house, within the grounds. He has now said that he plans to have someone move in here eventually. We are totally opposed to this - First of all, he could move anyone in, who knows what they will be like. Secondly, I am assuming electricity, water, etc will be connected to ours.

While he respects the boundary of the actual house, he seems to think the grounds are his to do whatever he pleases with. The lease makes no reference to only renting the "house" part of the property.

I am assuming that he cannot actually do this, but I want to make sure as I don't want to go causing unnecessary trouble.

Thanks in advance

filbert the fox · 17-09-2015 1:47pm

elle.en wrote: »

Hi All,

Just wanted to get some viewpoints on a couple of issues:

Myself and some other girls have been renting a large gated house for the past few months. There is a large garden with the property, and the issue here is that the landlord lets himself into the garden whenever he pleases with no notice whatsoever. He'll never enter the house or anything like that but am I right in thinking he shouldn't be coming into the grounds either? I would imagine if it was a family renting the house there would be uproar.

Secondly, a while ago he put a "chalet" type building at the side of the house, within the grounds. He has now said that he plans to have someone move in here eventually. We are totally opposed to this - First of all, he could move anyone in, who knows what they will be like. Secondly, I am assuming electricity, water, etc will be connected to ours.

While he respects the boundary of the actual house, he seems to think the grounds are his to do whatever he pleases with. The lease makes no reference to only renting the "house" part of the property.

I am assuming that he cannot actually do this, but I want to make sure as I don't want to go causing unnecessary trouble.

Thanks in advance

Contact your local planning authority with a query regarding unauthorised development/illegal connections.
Contact the housing unit of your local authority with regard to the proposed use of a temporary dwelling for human habitation.

runawaybishop · 17-09-2015 2:49pm

elle.en wrote: »

Hi All,

Just wanted to get some viewpoints on a couple of issues:

Myself and some other girls have been renting a large gated house for the past few months. There is a large garden with the property, and the issue here is that the landlord lets himself into the garden whenever he pleases with no notice whatsoever. He'll never enter the house or anything like that but am I right in thinking he shouldn't be coming into the grounds either? I would imagine if it was a family renting the house there would be uproar.

Secondly, a while ago he put a "chalet" type building at the side of the house, within the grounds. He has now said that he plans to have someone move in here eventually. We are totally opposed to this - First of all, he could move anyone in, who knows what they will be like. Secondly, I am assuming electricity, water, etc will be connected to ours.

While he respects the boundary of the actual house, he seems to think the grounds are his to do whatever he pleases with. The lease makes no reference to only renting the "house" part of the property.

I am assuming that he cannot actually do this, but I want to make sure as I don't want to go causing unnecessary trouble.

Thanks in advance

If you are renting the house you get the grounds too, unless specifically laid out in the lease. As such you are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property and he cant just let himself in whenever he wants. Similarly he cannot just build a wee apartment and rent that out, aside from any planning violations its not his garden any more. Let him know verbally that you are not happy and inform him he is to make an appointment if he would like an inspection - at a time and frequency suitable to both the tenants and the landlord.

If none of this is agreeable to him then you can make a complaint to PTRB and look for somewhere else to live, because frankly its not worth the hassle dealing with idiot landlords. Try the informal approach first before going nuclear though.

filbert the fox wrote: »

Contact your local planning authority with a query regarding unauthorised development/illegal connections.
Contact the housing unit of your local authority with regard to the proposed use of a temporary dwelling for human habitation.

^^ he hasn't done anything they care about yet.

The_Conductor · 17-09-2015 3:01pm

Legally- the landlord is personally responsible for the upkeep of the grounds and the exterior of the property. He may delegate this responsibility to the tenant (by lease article)- however, legally he is responsible. Unless the landlord has expressly delegated responsibility for the upkeep of the grounds and the dwelling itself to the tenant- they are responsible in law.

REXER · 17-09-2015 3:05pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Legally- the landlord is personally responsible for the upkeep of the grounds and the exterior of the property. He may delegate this responsibility to the tenant (by lease article)- however, legally he is responsible. Unless the landlord has expressly delegated responsibility for the upkeep of the grounds and the dwelling itself to the tenant- they are responsible in law.

Can I take it from your post then that you feel this entitles the landlord to erect temporary out buildings and lease said out buildings to third parties?

The_Conductor · 17-09-2015 3:12pm

REXER wrote: »

Can I take it from your post then that you feel this entitles the landlord to erect temporary out buildings and lease said out buildings to third parties?

Hell no.

I think the OP needs to get a copy of their lease and go through it line by line to see what it says.
Normally- its the other way around- tenants giving out because the landlord isn't cutting the grass frequently enough and the place looks grubby. It was for this very reason that they decided to legislate and force landlords to maintain properties, including their grounds.

As to the temporary out building etc- if the OP is renting the property in its entirety- I would argue that if the landlord puts a temporary structure up- it should be for the sole use of the OP- and not a third party.

wench · 17-09-2015 3:13pm

elle.en wrote: »

There is a large garden with the property, and the issue here is that the landlord lets himself into the garden whenever he pleases with no notice whatsoever. He'll never enter the house or anything like that but am I right in thinking he shouldn't be coming into the grounds either?

He has a legal obligation to maintain the exterior of the property, including the gardens.
If he stops, are ye willing to do the work instead? Otherwise, perhaps agreeing a schedule of when he will visit would be helpful, and probably easier than trying to get him to call you every time.

elle.en · 17-09-2015 3:14pm

Thanks all for the advice so far.

The_Conductor wrote: »

Legally- the landlord is personally responsible for the upkeep of the grounds and the exterior of the property. He may delegate this responsibility to the tenant (by lease article)- however, legally he is responsible. Unless the landlord has expressly delegated responsibility for the upkeep of the grounds and the dwelling itself to the tenant- they are responsible in law.

Just on this - It is mentioned in the lease that we are to keep the garden tidy and well tended. So I would imagine the garden/grounds are our responsibility. If that wasn't there would he be entitled to put up this chalet and rent it out?

elle.en · 17-09-2015 3:17pm

wench wrote: »

He has a legal obligation to maintain the exterior of the property, including the gardens.
If he stops, are ye willing to do the work instead? Otherwise, perhaps agreeing a schedule of when he will visit would be helpful, and probably easier than trying to get him to call you every time.

We are responsible for keeping the garden tidy etc and he has provided a lawnmower for us to cut the grass etc. which we are happy to do.

He often comes into the grounds (sometimes with other people) and has a look around - possibly checking out the place for whatever work he wants to do next on it. We have no problem with him coming in if he is maintaining the grounds (although we would like a bit of notice rather than him just showing up)

The_Conductor · 17-09-2015 3:19pm

The chalet- is the most hair brained nutty idea I've heard in a long time.
You are renting the property- including the grounds.
If the landlord wants to put a chalet there- he can only do so with your consent, or by your request. As to someone living in it- it would have to be fully compliant with current regulations- which I very much doubt it would be (aka plumbed for toilets, waste removal etc etc).

Its a complete and total non-runner- and thats ignoring the fact that hes rented you the property.

As to the landlord coming and going do the gardening etc- the model lease on Irish Landlords does have an article specifically referring to the tenant taking charge of the grounds. I'm guessing the landlord may not even be aware that you have agreed to this responsibility. Why not sit down with him and discuss this- it can be a significant amount of work- if he is willing to keep doing it- I'd be inclined to let him.

The chalet though.......... that is just ridiculous.

elle.en · 17-09-2015 3:24pm

Thanks The_Conductor, your reply is really helpful. I will have a chat with the other girls to see how we will approach it. The chalet is the bigger deal here and I would probably let the other things go for a happy life.

We will talk with the landlord about the chalet and hopefully he will agree to let it go. We have probably been doormats so far but we need to put our foot down on this one.

Thanks again all

endacl · 17-09-2015 3:41pm

You hold the lease OP. The property is yours, although the LL holds the title.

Perhaps you should be charging him rent on the chalet, which is part of the property? He can stay in it himself, if you're happy with that, but you can deny him permission to sublet?

REXER · 17-09-2015 3:48pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Hell no.

I think the OP needs to get a copy of their lease and go through it line by line to see what it says.
Normally- its the other way around- tenants giving out because the landlord isn't cutting the grass frequently enough and the place looks grubby. It was for this very reason that they decided to legislate and force landlords to maintain properties, including their grounds.

As to the temporary out building etc- if the OP is renting the property in its entirety- I would argue that if the landlord puts a temporary structure up- it should be for the sole use of the OP- and not a third party.

Agreed!

BnB · 17-09-2015 3:52pm

filbert the fox wrote: »

Contact your local planning authority with a query regarding unauthorised development/illegal connections.
Contact the housing unit of your local authority with regard to the proposed use of a temporary dwelling for human habitation.

Do not under any circumstances do this.

He hasn't actually done anything wrong (yet)

Why don't you just talk to the guy. Firstly, with regard the grounds he may not be aware that it is annoying you. He may think he is being a good landlord keeping the place in good condition etc. You could ask him to just send one of you a text or something during the day to let ye know he's coming over and he may be perfectly fine with it.

As regards the Chalet, it sounds a bit more worrying. But again, just ask him what the story is and outline your concerns. He may not even have considered that it may annoy you.

Emme · 17-09-2015 3:56pm

From PRTB website:

http://www.prtb.ie/faq

What is a dwelling?
A "dwelling'' is a property let for rent or valuable consideration as a self-contained residential unit. It includes any building or part of a building used as a dwelling and any out office, yard, garden or other land appurtenant to it or usually enjoyed with it.
It excludes a structure that is not permanently attached to the ground and a vessel and a vehicle (whether mobile or not).

Do you and your housemates regularly use the garden?

I would advise you to call the PRTB and see what they say. It's one thing the landlord coming into the garden to maintain it but if he's going to rent a chalet in the garden to somebody he's out of order.

runawaybishop · 17-09-2015 4:13pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Legally- the landlord is personally responsible for the upkeep of the grounds and the exterior of the property. He may delegate this responsibility to the tenant (by lease article)- however, legally he is responsible. Unless the landlord has expressly delegated responsibility for the upkeep of the grounds and the dwelling itself to the tenant- they are responsible in law.

Legally the op is entitled to peaceful enjoyment, doesn't sound like thats what they have. Upkeep isn't a carte blanche to wander around the place whenever the landlord likes.

17-09-2015 6:18pm

elle.en wrote: »

Hi All,

Just wanted to get some viewpoints on a couple of issues:

Myself and some other girls have been renting a large gated house for the past few months.

Are you renting the whole house or renting individual rooms from the LL as if it's the latter he may well be allowed to move in more people as it's no different to renting another room out.

runawaybishop wrote: »

Legally the op is entitled to peaceful enjoyment, doesn't sound like thats what they have. Upkeep isn't a carte blanche to wander around the place whenever the landlord likes.

Personally I don't see how the LL popping in and out affects "peaceful enjoyment". Building the chalet is obviously a different story though.

runawaybishop · 17-09-2015 6:29pm

Camila Old Barnacle wrote: »

Are you renting the whole house or renting individual rooms from the LL as if it's the latter he may well be allowed to move in more people as it's no different to renting another room out.

Personally I don't see how the LL popping in and out affects "peaceful enjoyment". Building the chalet is obviously a different story though.

It's completely different to renting a room out, he's building an extension. The house was marketed as having x tenants or rooms also.

Unannounced inspections/visits are absolutely not peaceful enjoyment, they are not allowed, full stop.

17-09-2015 7:16pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

It's completely different to renting a room out, he's building an extension. The house was marketed as having x tenants or rooms also.

If the LL is renting rooms individually the tenants do not have exclusive use of the property basically all they have say over is their room. Building an extension may be braking other rules and regulations form a planning perspective etc but the individuals room renting tenant has no say.

I don't think it's relevant here anyway as the impression I get from the op is they are renting the whole house as a group rather than individual rooms..

Again personally the LL popping around like that wouldn't bother me in the least but anyway you obviously get much more worked up over small things like that.

elle.en · 17-09-2015 7:19pm

Camila Old Barnacle wrote: »

If the LL is renting rooms individually the tenants do not have exclusive use of the property basically all they have say over is their room. Building an extension may be braking other rules and regulations form a planning perspective etc but the individuals room renting tenant has no say.

I don't think it's relevant here anyway as the impression I get from the op is they are renting the whole house as a group rather than individual rooms..

Again personally the LL popping around like that wouldn't bother me in the least but anyway you obviously get much more worked up over small things like that.

We are renting the property as a whole, not individual rooms.

He calls around unannounced once a week at the very least and more often than not 2 or 3 times a week. And now the chalet issue. I wouldn't call that getting worked up over small things really.

He has also been digging in the garden since 7 his morning and is still there (though he notified us of this yesterday on one of his unannounced visits)

TheDoc · 18-09-2015 1:22pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

The chalet- is the most hair brained nutty idea I've heard in a long time.
You are renting the property- including the grounds.
If the landlord wants to put a chalet there- he can only do so with your consent, or by your request. As to someone living in it- it would have to be fully compliant with current regulations- which I very much doubt it would be (aka plumbed for toilets, waste removal etc etc).

Two of my mates parents had chalets put in the gardens, and the boys ended up living in them. Really high quality and have to say I was totally taken by surprise. Thought it was just a fancy shed, but they are actually proper dwellings for a single person. Suppose depends on how many corners you cut, but the two mates that have them are mighty impressive.

I'd maybe argue that as the landlord owns the property, he can do what he sees fit in terms of improvements and construction to the property , no?

My landlord has indicated he is looking into converting the attic in our place. Its the PERFECT candidate for a conversion and will give so much extra space. He's doing his own and figures he will get a good deal doing both. In fairness, I probably expect a rent increase to come from it, but I'm not exactly going to kick up a fuss for a massive improvement to a property HE owns, just because I wont like the ramifications.

surely there is a certain "well if you dont like it there is the door" no ?

Although I might be in some luck as the landlord and I have a great relationship and its a house hes holding for his kids when they grow up (atleast another 15 years) so it might be a longterm investment for him that he wont look to pay off immediately via rent incr on me

But I'm not sure how the conversation goes for a tenant stopping a landlord doing work etc on the property they own.

TheDoc · 18-09-2015 1:31pm

elle.en wrote: »

We are renting the property as a whole, not individual rooms.

He calls around unannounced once a week at the very least and more often than not 2 or 3 times a week. And now the chalet issue. I wouldn't call that getting worked up over small things really.

He has also been digging in the garden since 7 his morning and is still there (though he notified us of this yesterday on one of his unannounced visits)

I'm always a bit taken a back by the lack of relationship tennants have with landlords who are sole operators of the property. It's totally understandable when dealing with an agency since its difficult to build a rapport and they dont cover themselves in glory.

But you have a landlord dropping in once a week to the garden. What does he do in the garden? Your saying he is digging, is he like, planting winter flwoer beds? Maintaining flower beds? Doing garden maintenance?

As a matter of interest, if hes out there since 7am this morning, have you said a word to him all day? Have you offered him a cuppa or something?

Not saying that you HAVE to, I just think its so weird that when you have a direct landlord contact, rather then a third party, that you don't try build up some form of rapport. That would be the same in anything tbh. I see now why I have such great relationships with landlords.

I'm going to hazard a guess that you've made this thread, had chats with the girls and thought of all this scenarios, without like once even had a chat with the landlord about it.

As my post above, my landlord is planning a big renovation in the house we are in. He told me about it after he had popped in to check up on the garden decking (something not right with the way its coloured keeps going off)

He tells me about this renovation, while we are having a cup of coffee at the kitchen table, having a chat, like people do.

As someone else mentioned, just talk to the landlord and have a chat, build a rapport. I'm not a landlord, but I'd say nothing makes them happier knowing they have nice people living in their property that wont give them ****, and a big part of that can be formed by just talking to them. And not treating them like some weird 19th century boogey man that are the bane of society.

elle.en · 18-09-2015 8:27pm

He calls around sometimes to just walk around, sometimes he brings other people to "show them something". We feel like we have absolutely no privacy. I don't understand how people think is is normal/ok? But as I said, we are willing to let that go if no one else moves into the chalet.

To be honest, he is here so much we ignore him when he is around now - we'd say hello of course but not much else. He doesn't tell us when he's going to be doing work or what kind of work so he's not much interested in any kind of rapport either.

Thanks to all for the advice received on this thread. I have confirmed with threshold that all the issues outlined in my original post are not allowed. We are going to arrange a sit down with the landlord to lay out our concerns.

Tarzana2 · 19-09-2015 5:11pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Legally- the landlord is personally responsible for the upkeep of the grounds and the exterior of the property. He may delegate this responsibility to the tenant (by lease article)- however, legally he is responsible. Unless the landlord has expressly delegated responsibility for the upkeep of the grounds and the dwelling itself to the tenant- they are responsible in law.

Yes, but what has this got to do with him turning up unannounced? Being legally responsible for upkeep of the garden doesn't mean he shouldn't notify them. As Emme's post showed, the garden is included in the dwelling. It could also be his way of slyly keeping an eye on the property, at least the ground floor rooms of the property, without having to give notification (as he seems to think is fine), if the ground floor windows are easy to peer into (no blinds, net curtains etc.) Doesn't sound like he is allowing peaceful enjoyment to me.

the_syco · 20-09-2015 12:35am

Tarzana2 wrote: »

It could also be his way of slyly keeping an eye on the property, at least the ground floor rooms of the property, without having to give notification

If he has a key for the back door, he could let himself in, and no-one would be any wiser.

elle.en wrote: »

Secondly, a while ago he put a "chalet" type building at the side of the house, within the grounds. He has now said that he plans to have someone move in here eventually.

Ask how much your rent will drop, and will you be given their contact details, so that they can pay their share of the bills.

Also, can the chalet house a bed room, a kitchen, and other facilities, or will the person be accessing the house for the washing machine, etc? And if so, check your lease on who can access the house you rent.

20-09-2015 10:39am

the_syco wrote: »

If he has a key for the back door, he could let himself in, and no-one would be any wiser.

Well in fairness the same could be said about any LL and any property. They will all have a key for their property and could easily enter on the sly once they know the house is empty.

Landlord issues

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