CCTV - Remote viewing Query

TheBadBadger · 17-09-2015 2:41pm #1

Hi All,
This may have been answered many times, but can anyone weigh in on the below ?

Wiring arrangement:

· 4 no. analogue EL2000 IC realtime cameras installed to 1 No. 4 channel Serenty DVR.
· Ethernet connection to the DVR

The client has a smart television in their home. The query is can they watch alive feed through their smart TV without paying for an IC Realtime APP and only getting a 10 minute live viewing limit.?

Note: There is no cable route to run a HDMI from the DVR to the TV.

17-09-2015 8:24pm

Thread moved from electrical.

fred funk }{ · 17-09-2015 9:33pm

TheBadBadger wrote: »

Hi All,
This may have been answered many times, but can anyone weigh in on the below ?

Wiring arrangement:

· 4 no. analogue EL2000 IC realtime cameras installed to 1 No. 4 channel Serenty DVR.

· Ethernet connection to the DVR

The client has a smart television in their home. The query is can they watch alive feed through their smart TV without paying for an IC Realtime APP and only getting a 10 minute live viewing limit.?

Note: There is no cable route to run a HDMI from the DVR to the TV.

As far as I know there isn't a way to broadcast on a smart TV. Are there any sort of cables at all in place?

kub · 17-09-2015 10:39pm

TheBadBadger wrote: »

Hi All,
This may have been answered many times, but can anyone weigh in on the below ?

Wiring arrangement:

· 4 no. analogue EL2000 IC realtime cameras installed to 1 No. 4 channel Serenty DVR.

· Ethernet connection to the DVR

The client has a smart television in their home. The query is can they watch alive feed through their smart TV without paying for an IC Realtime APP and only getting a 10 minute live viewing limit.?

Note: There is no cable route to run a HDMI from the DVR to the TV.

OP Do you have a PSA licence?

TheBadBadger · 18-09-2015 12:09am

kub wrote:

OP Do you have a PSA licence?

I do not. I didn't realise I require a PSA licence to query remote viewing of an existing system..!

TheBadBadger · 18-09-2015 12:20am

fred funk }{ wrote:

As far as I know there isn't a way to broadcast on a smart TV. Are there any sort of cables at all in place?

I think there may be a spare RG59 at one TV.

kub · 18-09-2015 7:58am

Well thoes of us who have to fork out thousands of euro to have one don't really appreciate assisting those who do not and do jobs for ' clients' and break the law.

It is immaterial whether the system is already installed, you are working on it without a licence.

kippy · 18-09-2015 8:05am

kub wrote: »

Well does of us who have to fork out thousands of euro to have one don't really appreciate assisting those who do not and do jobs for ' clients' and break the law.

It is immaterial whether the system is already installed, you are working on it without a licence.

You need a PSA license to install and configure CCTV?

fred funk }{ · 18-09-2015 8:12am

kippy wrote: »

You need a PSA license to install and configure CCTV?

Yes. It's against the law if you don't have a PSA licence. It's also against the law for a person or company to employ someone without a licence.

18-09-2015 8:24am

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Yes. It's against the law if you don't have a PSA licence. It's also against the law for a person or company to employ someone without a licence.

Does this apply to all CCTV systems or just the ones that are installed for security?

For example in the past I installed cameras in a sheep shed for a farmer show he could keep an eye on them when they were lambing.
No jokes about farmers and sheep please

18-09-2015 4:02pm

kippy wrote: »

You need a PSA license to install and configure CCTV?

Not generally, but always.

I just rang the PSA on 062-31588 and talked to their licensing division.

A PSA licence is not required for installing CCTV unless the system is being installed for security purposes.

KoolKid · 18-09-2015 4:49pm

That is correct.

dav32cs · 18-09-2015 4:54pm

2011 wrote: »

Not generally, but always.

I just rang the PSA on 062-31588 and talked to their licensing division.

A PSA licence is not required for installing CCTV unless the system is being installed for security purposes.

What is the definition of 'security purposes'?

Surely every person who has CCTV uses it for 'security purposes'???

KoolKid · 18-09-2015 5:03pm

Farming and the likes of lambing or calving cameras etc.

18-09-2015 5:54pm

dav32cs wrote: »

Surely every person who has CCTV uses it for 'security purposes'???

No, have a read of post #10

There are many other examples.

bucky08 · 18-09-2015 7:07pm

kub wrote: »

Well thoes of us who have to fork out thousands of euro to have one don't really appreciate assisting those who do not and do jobs for ' clients' and break the law.

It is immaterial whether the system is already installed, you are working on it without a licence.

You go girl... P.S.A , P.S.A........

kub · 18-09-2015 7:18pm

Idiot

kippy · 18-09-2015 8:04pm

dav32cs wrote: »

What is the definition of 'security purposes'?

Surely every person who has CCTV uses it for 'security purposes'???

I put a few of the outside the house, yard etc to keep a watch out for neighbours animals going to the toilet on my property.
If for some reason it catches intruders on film then so be it......
Do people need licenses to put up dummy cameras?

KoolKid · 18-09-2015 8:11pm

It is a big loop hole. We have been here before with the PSA. But it's to cover the ridiculous scenarios where anyone operating a camera for work should require a licence.

18-09-2015 8:40pm

KoolKid wrote: »

It is a big loop hole. We have been here before with the PSA. But it's to cover the ridiculous scenarios where anyone operating a camera for work should require a licence.

There are so many webcams, baby cams, reversing cameras, etc. it is the impossible to regulate.

Anyone can go to PC world, DID, Power City and buy a camera that can be connected to some sort of monitor or viewed from a phone, how could it be expected to regulate this???

kub · 18-09-2015 8:44pm

They are known as The Private SECURITY Authority.
Their brief is therefore the Irish security industry, hence it is security cameras that they are interested in.

18-09-2015 8:46pm

kub wrote: »

They are known as The Private SECURITY Authority.
Their brief is therefore the Irish security industry, hence it is security cameras that they are interested in.

Yup! My point exactly.
No piint in attempting to regulate anything that cant be regulated.
If you intend to use recorded footage in court you better be licensed.

kippy · 18-09-2015 9:33pm

kub wrote: »

They are known as The Private SECURITY Authority.
Their brief is therefore the Irish security industry, hence it is security cameras that they are interested in.

What is a security camera?

18-09-2015 9:42pm

kippy wrote: »

What is a security camera?

A camera that is installed primarily for security purposes that records footage that will stand up in court?

kippy · 18-09-2015 9:45pm

2011 wrote: »

A camera that is installed primarily for security purposes that records footage that will stand up in court?

What is a "security" purpose?
What defines "footage that will stand up in court"?

18-09-2015 9:53pm

kippy wrote: »

What is a "security" purpose?

Open to interpretation.

What defines "footage that will stand up in court"?

Watermarked = PSA licensed

kippy · 18-09-2015 9:55pm

2011 wrote: »

Open to interpretation.

Watermarked = PSA licensed

So you are telling me if footage from cameras that have not been installed by a PSA licensed installer is submitted as evidence against someone - it won't stand up?
(Sorry, my "tone" may be interpreted as "hostile" here. I am genuinely interested to hear the details of this side of the legislation and I appreciate you explaining it to me as you see it)

18-09-2015 10:11pm

kippy wrote: »

So you are telling me if footage from cameras that have not been installed by a PSA licensed installer is submitted as evidence against someone - it won't stand up?
(Sorry, my "tone" may be interpreted as "hostile" here. I am genuinely interested to hear the details of this side of the legislation and I appreciate you explaining it to me as you see it)

If you want to be confident that what you recorded will stand up in court there are certain standards to be met. A PSA registered contractor will meet these standards.

kippy · 18-09-2015 10:21pm

For the record, this is the document on CCTV Installation on the PSA website:
https://www.psa.gov.ie/en/PSA/PSA%202006_12%20-%20Requirements%20for%20CCTV%20Installation.pdf/Files/PSA%202006_12%20-%20Requirements%20for%20CCTV%20Installation.pdf
In fairness it is extensive and easy enough to follow.
They also have two documents on (Security Guarding) CCTV Monitoring.
https://www.psa.gov.ie/en/PSA/Pages/standards

Also I've found this document (allegedly from the Gardai)
http://www.cctvireland.ie/pdf/Garda-Guidlines-on-CCTV-in-Ireland.pdf
Does the section under "Using CCTV" as evidence need to be updated? (no mention of PSA)

Also,
not one mention of PSA here:
http://www.dataprotectionschools.ie/en/Data-Protection-Guidelines/CCTV/Guidelines-on-use-of-CCTV-Footage-/

And again, not one mention of PSA here:
https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Data-Protection-CCTV/242.htm

It's interesting that none of the documents mention the PSA directly - perhaps because I have inadvertently googled older documents.

I don't really have any issues with the PSA as a body that ensures you don't have known criminals setting up alarm systems/working in the security industry in general etc and indeed standards are a good thing when it comes to installing kit,
However I do have issues where people are essentially "Afraid" or "Forced" into paying for the services of someone to do, what is nowadays, a relatively straightforward task for some people (Install a prebought CCTV kit) on their own premises for the purposes of monitoring their own property.

To add, some of the skepticism I have for these type of bodies and the people who are registered under them is my experiences on occasion in dealing with them over the years.

kippy · 18-09-2015 10:23pm

2011 wrote: »

If you want to be confident that why you recorded will stand up in court there are certain standards to be met. A PSA registered contractor will meet these standards.

So,
Could one be under the impression that if you get your kit installed by a PSA registered installer and recordings handed over to the Gardai by the PSA registered installer they will definitely stand up in court and if you install the kit yourself it won't stand up?

kub · 18-09-2015 10:44pm

Hi kippy we can only interpret the rules and regs as decided by the PSA. You mentioned above that some of those documents which you came across need to be updated.
Yes they do as technically the equipment on the market has advanced dramatically since those documents were released, in our last audit, the inspector actually mentioned that.

Just in response to your query about self installs, there is nothing in the regs stopping someone from buying their own equipment and installing it on their own premises.
With regard to the query as to whether the data will stand up in court, well that is up to The Gardai.

CCTV - Remote viewing Query

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