Irish Rail wastes 250k on Graffiti removal

Stephen15

Why though most European networks run fine with a bit of graffiti why does Irish rail spend so much removing it. Ok fair enough on intercity stock I don't fancy being stuck on a Dublin to cork service riddled with it but on the dart it doesn't really make a difference people aren't going to stop using or are just looking for excuses to shorten the lengths of trains I'd rather be sitting on a graffiti filled carnage then a sweat box.

end of the road

all ready a thread on this. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057494863

LXFlyer

Stephen15 wrote: »

Why though most European networks run fine with a bit of graffiti why does Irish rail spend so much removing it. Ok fair enough on intercity stock I don't fancy being stuck on a Dublin to cork service riddled with it but on the dart it doesn't really make a difference people aren't going to stop using or are just looking for excuses to shorten the lengths of trains I'd rather be sitting on a graffiti filled carnage then a sweat box.

You don't seem to have any concept of branding and trying to attract new customers - that is not going to work with trains running around covered in graffiti.

People do expect certain standards.

I think that you would find yourself in a minority with that view.

Markcheese

I suppose the next question is could IR get it done cheaper ? Easier ?- better ?
Different surfaces -paints or surfaces -

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

You don't seem to have any concept of branding and trying to attract new customers - that is not going to work with trains running around covered in graffiti.

IE don't get branding either, changing it constantly and apart from the DART every other vehicle has had multiple repaints over the last 20 years so that there is no consistent brand recognition possible. Logos change frequently as well.

Currently we've got:
Grey and Silver/black freight locos
Orange (ok laid up), Green/silver, Grey and purple, silver red and black passenger and freight locos
2800, 29k and 22k all have different liveries, with 29k having 2 at present

You'd forgive some people for thinking they were all separate companies like you would see in the UK.

People do expect certain standards.

Standards on the inside are far more important though. Overflowing toilets, non functional seating reservation and displays or overcrowding are far more important than a graffiti ridden carriage. Especially with the limited resources IE have to work with.

Constantly removing graffiti is 'nice' but not a priority requirement and the funds would do far more good spent in other areas.

StonyIron

As I said on a previous thread -

Community service order - safe pass training, overalls and a scrubbing brush and you'd think twice about spraying tags all over public or private properly.

Maybe 4 or 6 weekends....

end of the road

StonyIron wrote: »

As I said on a previous thread -

Community service order - safe pass training, overalls and a scrubbing brush and you'd think twice about spraying tags all over public or private properly.

Maybe 4 or 6 weekends....

back in the real world however. such suggestions wouldn't make a blind bit of difference

StonyIron

end of the road wrote: »

back in the real world however. such suggestions wouldn't make a blind bit of difference

Not in a system like we have here.
You'd probably get sued by the graffiti cleaners of someone broke a nail.

StonyIron

StonyIron wrote: »

Not in a system like we have here.
You'd probably get sued by the graffiti cleaners of someone broke a nail.

There is seldom graffiti on the trains in Singapore.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/05/us-singapore-graffiti-sentence-idUSKBN0M10DK20150305

A Singapore court sentenced two Germans to nine months in prison and three strokes of the cane on Thursday after they pleaded guilty to breaking into a depot and spray-painting graffiti on a commuter train carriage.
Andreas Von Knorre, 22, and Elton Hinz, 21, both expressed remorse while being sentenced in the state courts of the island republic.
"This is the darkest episode of my entire life," said Von Knorre. "I want to apologize to the state of Singapore for the stupid act...I've learned my lesson and will never do it again."
Hinz added: "I promise I will never do it again. I want to apologize to you, and my family for the shame and situation I've put them into."





....


Singapore, well known for its cleanliness and its zero tolerance for crime, uses the rattan cane to carry out the sentence. Prisoners are stripped and strapped to a wooden trestle with a medical officer on hand to intervene if necessary.
People who have been caned have called the pain excruciating.

StonyIron

It's rather odd place, to put it mildly. Singapore is basically a benevolent dictatorship and retains a lot of British 19th century state brutality.

A guy I know had moved there with a UK bank and didn't think much about sending his son to public school.

He was late twice and they beat him with a cane came home badly bruised and refused to go to school again. The kid was 6!

Caused absolute uproar in the house and the parents sold up and left Singapore.

Del.Monte

Whatever about its political system, Ireland would benefit with some of Singapore's law and order policies - everything from chewing gum through to graffiti artists and boy racers.

StonyIron

Del.Monte wrote: »

Whatever about its political system, Ireland would benefit with some of Singapore's law and order policies - everything from chewing gum through to graffiti artists and boy racers.

There's a bit of a balance. We had law and order policies like that and it ended up with severe abuse in industrial schools and beatings that have left people traumatised for life and I think created several very downtrodden, unnecessarily shy generations that lacked confidence and entrepreneurship.

We do need to deal with law and order but not by regressing to the 19th century and not by introducing American style robocop stuff either.

Things like community service, restorative justice and similar measures work far better.

The biggest difference in Scandinavia is that people feel a sense of public ownership of public facilities and you don't tend to trash your own garden.

I thin really by creating more accountable local government and getting people more directly involved things happen!

The Tidy Towns is the best Irish example of this and it really does work. People take huge pride in an area and it suddenly turns out absolutely beautiful.

You've got to do that in inner city areas and I think you can even do that with public transit. Get people involved with their local unloved DART station. Hold events at it, turn it into a gateway to the community.

Things like having local elected councils that fulfill a democratic version of the tidy towns committee and getting more civic involvement isn't expensive if it's done right and it could really transform places and facilities.

You can't bully people into taking pride in things. You have to create structures and systems that encourage ownership and leadership.

At present Ireland is consistently dismantling and striping power from the already dysfunctional councils and not replacing them with anything that could possibly create local pride.

We need to really rethink how we do pretty much everything at a local and civic level. It's just not working as a structure and that's why we've bad planning, messy areas, social disorder issues in cities etc etc etc

end of the road

Del.Monte wrote: »

Whatever about its political system, Ireland would benefit with some of Singapore's law and order policies - everything from chewing gum through to graffiti artists and boy racers.

actually it wouldn't. such laws wouldn't make a difference in ireland or other western countries

StonyIron

end of the road wrote: »

actually it wouldn't. such laws wouldn't make a difference in ireland or other western countries

To be honest, I'd rather put up with a little graffiti and have my civil liberties in a completely free society and have no risk of being cained for random minor offences than live in what amounts to a large outdoor shopping centre run by a board of directors.

I think Ireland would have a revolution (again) if you had too much law and order enforcement like that. We're not that keen on authority.

Del.Monte

I was just kidding, I think we should shower the little scrotes with love and let them do whatever the hell they like.

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

Whatever about its political system, Ireland would benefit with some of Singapore's law and order policies - everything from chewing gum through to graffiti artists and boy racers.

Think the EU might take a dim view of our proposed set of beating-up-people laws.