Junior Cert Irish Oral to be abolished

mick kk

I heard today that with the new JC that with all the exams limited to 2 hours, that the optional irish oral aspect is to be abolished.
Has anyone else heard this as i cannot find anything on it.

evolving_doors

mick kk wrote: »

I heard today that with the new JC that with all the exams limited to 2 hours, that the optional irish oral aspect is to be abolished.
Has anyone else heard this as i cannot find anything on it.

last thing any language subject would do is abolish an oral.

Jamfa

mick kk wrote: »

I heard today that with the new JC that with all the exams limited to 2 hours, that the optional irish oral aspect is to be abolished.
Has anyone else heard this as i cannot find anything on it.

Have you read the draft specification which was drafted prior to the new Framework but has strong focus on oral work: http://www.juniorcycle.ie/NCCA_JuniorCycle/media/NCCA/Documents/Curriculum/An%20Ghaeilge/DreachtSon_Gaeilge_English.pdf

mick kk

http://tuairisc.ie/deireadh-le-scrudu-beil-an-stait-don-teastas-soisearach/

I found this since I posted my initial question

ejak1

mick kk wrote: »

http://tuairisc.ie/deireadh-le-scrudu-beil-an-stait-don-teastas-soisearach/

I found this since I posted my initial question

I read the article and the oral is not going to be abolished as such. It is to form part of the class based assignments for new Junior Cert.
“Tá sé i gceist go mbeidh measúnú ar scileanna béil ina chuid den mheasúnú rang-bhunaithe sa tsonraíocht nua sraithe sóisearaí don Ghaeilge atá lena thabhairt isteach i mí Mheán Fómhair 2017.

The final exam will be a two hour written like all other subjects in Junior Cert. The oral will be marked separately by the school as one of students two school-based tasks.
From my reading, this will also happen in subjects like English, where oral presentation work will be assessed in school time.

Remember that these are the proposals that teachers are voting on at the moment. It's important that teachers vote before next Wednesday.

mick kk

yes but.....the result they get for their JC results will be only based on the 2 hour written exam. The result for the mickey mouse school based assessment will appear seperatily as a disinctinction, merit or pass which is sent out after the JC results on the certificate of achievement document.

ejak1

mick kk wrote: »

yes but.....the result they get for their JC results will be only based on the 2 hour written exam. The result for the mickey mouse school based assessment will appear seperatily as a disinctinction, merit or pass which is sent out after the JC results on the certificate of achievement document.

As far as I know this class-based assessment will be the same for orals in English, French, German etc and for assessments in most other subjects. Gaeilge is no exception to other language subjects.

There have always been optional orals in Junior Cert till now in languages (except English). But most schools do not do them as they are neither monitored nor carried out by the state exams commission (unlike Leaving Cert orals). This is why there has been a clear directive by the ASTI to language teachers not to engage in school-based assessment orals.(even if examined by a retired teacher, for example, or other outsider) in other words, schools/teachers carrying out Junior Cert orals or allowing them to be carried in their school were in the minority as most teachers would not breach the directive if they were members of the ASTI.

In the new proposals, the orals will still be arranged by the school and marked. The only difference is that the results will go directly to the parents.
Ideally, all assessment should in my view be examined by SEC. The Junior Cert orals should have been run exactly the same as Leaving Cert orals.

But at least, we have got to a stage where the Junior Cert is still in existence in a recognisable form, unlike Ruairi Quinn's original decision to abolish all state assessment completely. Still not far enough in my opinion, but that's why we are voting on these proposals at the minute.

mick kk

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/big-surge-in-uptake-of-junior-cert-oral-irish-285449.html

The jc Irish oral has been increasing in popularity in recent years as the figures in this article from 2014 indicate.
It would be great if the oral was run and monitored properly by the SEC and it really is a step backwards to take it out of the official JC result for Irish... i am guessing that the limiting of exams to one paper, 2 hours is in order to save money on superintending and correcting so there is zero chance of a properly monitored oral being introduced.

Whether you agree with the way it is run in schools or not, this really is a huge step backwards for the language. The existence of a JC oral exam that made up 40% of the overall result has been such a motivating tool for the junior cert students in 1st 2nd and 3rd year. Now its back to just preparing them for a written exam and the most important language skill can take a back seat.

evolving_doors

mick kk wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/big-surge-in-uptake-of-junior-cert-oral-irish-285449.html

The jc Irish oral has been increasing in popularity in recent years as the figures in this article from 2014 indicate.
It would be great if the oral was run and monitored properly by the SEC and it really is a step backwards to take it out of the official JC result for Irish... i am guessing that the limiting of exams to one paper, 2 hours is in order to save money on superintending and correcting so there is zero chance of a properly monitored oral being introduced.

Whether you agree with the way it is run in schools or not, this really is a huge step backwards for the language. The existence of a JC oral exam that made up 40% of the overall result has been such a motivating tool for the junior cert students in 1st 2nd and 3rd year. Now its back to just preparing them for a written exam and the most important language skill can take a back seat.

So is this the way most march/april JC practicals will go then. in house exam!

music practical is currently added into SEC JC result... will this be on the cards to be taken out also?

mick kk

yes....i don't think people realise that the A B C etc the students get is simply for a written exam only....the practicals, orals, project work etc. is now taken out and done in second year by the class teacher...the result is sent out to the students seperatily in the year following third year between Sept and Xmas....which means these now have very little importance in the eyes of the students

ejak1

mick kk wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/big-surge-in-uptake-of-junior-cert-oral-irish-285449.html

The jc Irish oral has been increasing in popularity in recent years as the figures in this article from 2014 indicate.
It would be great if the oral was run and monitored properly by the SEC and it really is a step backwards to take it out of the official JC result for Irish... i am guessing that the limiting of exams to one paper, 2 hours is in order to save money on superintending and correcting so there is zero chance of a properly monitored oral being introduced.

Whether you agree with the way it is run in schools or not, this really is a huge step backwards for the language. The existence of a JC oral exam that made up 40% of the overall result has been such a motivating tool for the junior cert students in 1st 2nd and 3rd year. Now its back to just preparing them for a written exam and the most important language skill can take a back seat.

The oral component is the most important skill in any language. I of course agree that there should be an externally assessed oral by SEC. But I am also a union member of ASTI, and I am obliged to abide by their directives, including that of not carrying out school-based orals in any language for SEC. If teachers are non ASTI, or a member of a religious order, they can of course do what they wish. There is no reason for them to observe directive.

In the article you quoted, it stated that 'The oral exams in Irish and other languages have been an option at the Junior Certificate for years but the SEC does not pay for examiners to attend schools in the way it does for Leaving Certificate oral tests.'The ASTI said: “These arrangements do not meet the assessment standards employed by the SEC.”

Furthermore, if schools have to appoint their own examiners, retired or part-time teachers, who pays for this? Some schools or students may not have the funds available, a point brought up by the ASTi in the article. It is not known how many were marked by their own teachers, or whether schools or students paid for outside examiners to conduct the tests

In my school, many students have a waiver for Junior Cert fees, but this waiver wouldnot apply to an optional oral.

There should be a level play pitch for all students, not just those whose schools, students can afford to pay for orals. Union members should not be pressured by management or parents to break directives. Most parents, when I explained about directive, were supportive of teachers, especially when I told them that the orals were not run or assessed by SEC.

Neither should ASTI members do SEC work for free. We don't see Art, Music or Home Ec teachers make their own arrangements for assessing practicals at the moment, (and rightly so) why should language teachers be expected to do this?

The new proposals have been circulating since last spring. All subject teachers should read the booklet sent with their ballot papers to see how their own subjects are affected. info also on ASTI,ie. It is vital that this ballot has a good turnout. Otherwise, we can't complain that these changes have come about.