EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

josip

Tea 1000 wrote: »

My betting is that usual Ford Focus and VW Golf will still be the top 2 selling cars in January 2016.

Change Jan 2016 to June 2016 and I'll take you up on that for €20

everlast75

cronin_j wrote: »

Well it is pretty serious.

Say you do recall the cars. Youll have to pay an admin person to organise it, probably take on an extra mechanic or two from the VW side per region/dealership.

Then from the customer side, they will be without a car for say 4 hours. They will surely have to reimburse them something as they are putting their customers out, so will probably give them a hire car to use if they need it etc etc.

It'll add up. But will also blow over.

It'll come out but id say they are all at it.

You are correct in all you say. I probably should have said that it doesn't differ substantially from any other recall procedure that has happened with other manufacturers.

Tefral

everlast75 wrote: »

You are correct in all you say. I probably should have said that it doesn't differ substantially from any other recall procedure that has happened with other manufacturers.

In a word No.

I think the only reason why this differs is that the word "Cheating" seems to be latched on to in a big way lately by the media.

Joe 90

astrofool wrote: »

The efficiency of a large steam turbine at a power plant in turning fuel into energy is about double than what you can achieve at your house, along with a central point for emissions clean up.

You ain't going to turn the heat into electricity in your house. You are heating your house.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Joe 90

You may well see a situation when the dust as settled that the current cars with the naughty maps are considered more desireabl than later EPA complient cars due to better performance and fuel consumption.

everlast75

cronin_j wrote: »

In a word No.

I think the only reason why this differs is that the word "Cheating" seems to be latched on to in a big way lately by the media.

True - but there are cover ups involving a few other manufacturers that are known of and probably plenty more besides. And this cover up isn't life threatening.

In my view, if it doesn't hit people in their pockets and it didn't put their lives at stake, then again I'd say that it blown all out of proportion.

In 3 years, is someone going to say "remember VW were involved in that emissions thing - don't think I'll buy one"? I don't think so.

However, I do know of people who remember Toyota and the brakes issue and won't go near them.

Toyotafanboi

RedorDead wrote: »

Have you ever tried cutting power to a modern car at say over 100km/h taking say a curve on the road? Even want to imagine what happens servo assisted steering? Just wow!

the steering gets heavier.

still, definitely much safer to cut the power to the car at 100km/h and roll to a stop, even if you have to scrub off a wall while grappling with weighted steering than to volunteer yourself into a runaway car situation which could (and iirc, did) see cars ramming into traffic @ 160km/h and more.

josip

In my (limited) experience, heavier, non-servo steering is more of an issue at lower speeds than higher speeds.
Also in my unfortunate experience, non existent, non-servo brakes were more of an issue at higher speeds than lower speeds.

Alanstrainor

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

the steering gets heavier.

still, definitely much safer to cut the power to the car at 100km/h and roll to a stop, even if you have to scrub off a wall while grappling with weighted steering than to volunteer yourself into a runaway car situation which could (and iirc, did) see cars ramming into traffic @ 160km/h and more.

Can we drop talk of this. Not relevant to the thread at all.

Daaryl

Special Circumstances

Lotta people not getting james delaneys point about any American diesel being better than a vw diesel..


Of course they are... americans can actually buy an American diesel today or tomorrow (or maybe not in states with sensible air quality regulations!). VWs diesels are not certified for legal sale due to being filthy dirty noisy cheating dishonest engines!

How anyone could miss this is pretty phenomenal, I guess most people who couldn't put 2 and 2 together may have been exposed to excess lung clogging and respiratory system hampering chemicals due to owning a certain car brand????? Not enough oxygen to the brain perhaps???

Special Circumstances

Daaryl wrote: »

Been done once already in this thread, but worth repeating. And quoting. Looks exactly like what I overtake ,every time as soon as possible. I can't stand ignorant yokes spewing out that poisonous crap while being delighted with their fuel and tax savings or even believing they are helping the environment. Lol-tastic unless you are stuck breathing that crap in.

Toyotafanboi

my personal favourite

Special Circumstances

Resistance is futile

Manic Moran

James Delaney wrote: »

TODAY every single US Diesel is way ahead of Passat/Golf

Name one which I might consider ahead of the Passat.

Here's a clue: This page lists every diesel car on sale in the US this year.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1065440_our-guide-to-every-2012-clean-diesel-car-on-sale-in-the-u-s

Marty McFly wrote: »

In all fairness who buys a car thinking of its resale value?

You buy the car you want/like knowing your going to loose money on it through expenditure during ownership and in resale.

Cars are money pits fun momey pits but certainly not investments.

Me. Yes, it's going to lose money. How much money it's going to lose, however, is a question worth considering in the cost-per-year-of-ownership equation.

DublinDilbert

I assume vw are still using Bosch ecu's, at one point Bosch would of provided all the ecu software. So I'd be surprised if someone in Bosch didn't know about this.

robtri

I still wonder will it come out about CO2 numbers as well here in europe...

If this software is in cars here in europe,
Knowing that the car was purposely sold as something it wasn't... under consumer law if a product is purposely mis sold.. its a breach of contract..

can a customer bring back a car to VW and demand a refund?

Eric Cartman

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I assume vw are still using Bosch ecu's, at one point Bosch would of provided all the ecu software. So I'd be surprised if someone in Bosch didn't know about this.

bosch provide the ECU's, MAF's , Injectors , other sensors, the manufacturer would apply the mapping or tweak software for it , if bosch did the code work you'd have nothing proprietary left in the ecu's and manufacturers wouldn't be fans of that.

Fiskar

Whether diesel cars will survive this is open to debate. Diesels are already too complicated, have too many filtration systems and additives and the DPFs can be removed or bypassed for testing and emissions purposes unlike petrol cars.

Regardless of the fact that diesel is an efficient fuel, manufacturers cannot or will not invest in technology to clean up diesel emissions, seemily they have gone as far as they can go.

Diesel now has an bad emissions tag, am in two minds to get rid of my diesel and get a petrol before the government latches on to punish dirty diesels by making the fuel dearer than petrol, i see that happening. Then we have the DPFs that are being removed/bypassed, they will come after that. The endgame is near for diesel.

Special Circumstances

Fiskar wrote: »

Whether diesel cars will survive this is open to debate. Diesels are already too complicated, have too many filtration systems and additives and the DPFs can be removed or bypassed for testing and emissions purposes unlike petrol cars.

Regardless of the fact that diesel is an efficient fuel, manufacturers cannot or will not invest in technology to clean up diesel emissions, seemily they have gone as far as they can go.

Diesel now has an bad emissions tag, am in two minds to get rid of my diesel and get a petrol before the government latches on to punish dirty diesels by making the fuel dearer than petrol, i see that happening. Then we have the DPFs that are being removed/bypassed, they will come after that. The endgame is near for diesel.

Ignorant people will always want to save money despite any damage to other people's health or the environment. Diesel is safe until the EU gives equal status to nox and particulates and CO2.

Fiskar

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Ignorant people will always want to save money despite any damage to other people's health or the environment. Diesel is safe until the EU gives equal status to nox and particulates and CO2.

That is precisely the point, the EU will want software and systems that cannot be bypassed, that will cost moulah and lots of it, raising the the sales price of the vehicle and making for costly parts replacement. We already have costly parts replacement and the breakeven point of running diesel vehicles is down to the parts costs already, add in these new systems that cannot be changed out or bypassed cost effectively and you have a vehicle that is hard to buy, maintain and sell on. Long live petrol and pray electric can come efficiently and quickly.

alias no.9

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I assume vw are still using Bosch ecu's, at one point Bosch would of provided all the ecu software. So I'd be surprised if someone in Bosch didn't know about this.

Bosch have already denied any involvement

colm_mcm

Was watching on the news where they seemed shocked that "VW pumped urea into the exhaust"

alias no.9

Fiskar wrote: »

That is precisely the point, the EU will want software and systems that cannot be bypassed, that will cost moulah and lots of it, raising the the sales price of the vehicle and making for costly parts replacement. We already have costly parts replacement and the breakeven point of running diesel vehicles is down to the parts costs already, add in these new systems that cannot be changed out or bypassed cost effectively and you have a vehicle that is hard to buy, maintain and sell on. Long live petrol and pray electric can come efficiently and quickly.

Could there be a massive knock on benefit in this if the ECU software becomes more open?

colm_mcm

Wouldn't this make them less open?

dr.fuzzenstein

Fiskar wrote: »

That is precisely the point, the EU will want software and systems that cannot be bypassed, that will cost moulah and lots of it, raising the the sales price of the vehicle and making for costly parts replacement. We already have costly parts replacement and the breakeven point of running diesel vehicles is down to the parts costs already, add in these new systems that cannot be changed out or bypassed cost effectively and you have a vehicle that is hard to buy, maintain and sell on. Long live petrol and pray electric can come efficiently and quickly.

You think petrol will now live on happily ever after? Everything stays as it is and happy days forever?
Emissions will simply be tightened until there is no way that standards can be achieved within the boundaries of physics and then the whole game starts again. Unless that is already happening. This whole idea of "great, diesel is dead and petrol will live on forever!" is innocent and blue eyed in the extreme. Or rather the usual lazy trolling by de pedril fanbois.
We're burning oil and if you don't like it, tough sh*t.

And I keep saying it:
So, diesel is gone. Will we have petrol powered buses, trucks, trains, plant, ships, generators, etc? Maybe petrol aircraft?
If the small percentage of diesel usage that is cars is gone (which it won't be), what about the rest?
I'm sick to death of "de pedril fanbois" spewing their ever tiresome "dem daysuls are shoite, you'd want to be gettin' rid a dem, so you would!" bollocks. Would give you cancer listening to that sh*te.
I will be driving a diesel for the foreseeable future and even if production of diesel vehicles stopped tomorrow, there would still be quite a few of them around in 20-30 years time. And the next one will be an old one of the extra smoky variety, just to piss the petrol heads off. My oilburner has done 345k km and will be smoking up a town near you for at least another 200k km.
Enjoy!

jimgoose

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You think petrol will now live on happily ever after? Everything stays as it is and happy days forever?...

As something of a petrol fanboy myself, I would nevertheless love an old automatic Mercedes 300D estate.

John T Carroll

jimgoose wrote: »

As something of a petrol fanboy myself, I would nevertheless love an old automatic Mercedes 300D estate.

It doesnt matter what we are all fanboys of, as sure as night follows day, the diesel band will play on.

Comhrá

Switzerland Bans VW Car Sales Over Emissions.

http://news.sky.com/story/1559195/switzerland-bans-vw-car-sales-over-emissions