EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

dr.fuzzenstein

Eric Cartman wrote: »

apparently the powerstroke 6 litre does 400 horses and returns an average 20 US Mpg which is 24 UK mpg , if the next iteration delivered a 5mpg improvement (US) id have that no bother, all 6 litres of it. then my only problem would be the 3.5 tonne on the GVW limit of a B licence.

I just cannot understand how those monsters can be all fine and dandy and then a Passat comes along and they all scream blue murder. I don't see those things being any cleaner.

Eric Cartman

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I just cannot understand how those monsters can be all fine and dandy and then a Passat comes along and they all scream blue murder. I don't see those things being any cleaner.

the problem is marketing, nobody ever bought a 6 litre pickup thinking they were saving the planet. But VW have been tapping the california guilt trip and claiming that these diesels save the planet and are clean & friendly.

so you have all the prius set annoyed by that, then even the people who aren't annoyed are pretending to be outraged because of the chance of some good ol class action compensation. The US love getting rialled up if theres a chance of a few quid on it.

mickdw

Vw uk have the chassis number checker up.
Just checked a 12 passat 1.6 here and it is effected as we suspected.
I'm sure this is 100% accurate.
No surprise that there is not a peep out of vw ireland.
I wouldnt be surprised if nothing was done here.


This is what they said

Dear Volkswagen customer,

We regret to inform you that the Type EA 189 engine built into your vehicle with the Vehicle Identification Number wvwzzz............ you submitted, is affected by software that causes discrepancies in the values for oxides of nitrogen (NOx) during dynometer runs. Your car is safe from a technical standpoint and roadworthy. 

We are very sorry to have broken your trust and are working at full speed to find a technical solution. Volkswagen will cover the cost relating directly to this repair.

We will be in touch with you directly to explain what steps are required. We'll do the necessary work at our cost and have you quickly back on the road.


Yours faithfully,

Volkswagen.

dr.fuzzenstein

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the problem is marketing, nobody ever bought a 6 litre pickup thinking they were saving the planet. But VW have been tapping the california guilt trip and claiming that these diesels save the planet and are clean & friendly.

so you have all the prius set annoyed by that, then even the people who aren't annoyed are pretending to be outraged because of the chance of some good ol class action compensation. The US love getting rialled up if theres a chance of a few quid on it.

I'd say wait till they start looking at petrol emissions, those new whizzbang petrols are supposed to do 60+ mpg and be cleaner than a unicorn's fart. In theory anyway...
But even I always though that putting diesels into small city cars was a bit daft. Diesels are mile munchers. Mine is just about warmed up when I arrive at work.
So, small little cars with diesel engines were always a bad idea.

edit:
I'd say for those of us who want to stick with diesel, pre 08 is the ones to go for. Preferably earlier, so no DPF to block up and no additive tank to run out.
So earlier, dirtier diesels will be more popular, best snap one up now. I'm considering maybe an early 00's TDI Passat estate.

Eric Cartman

6.7 Litre powerstroke and $67,000 fully loaded , may not be so bad after all.

Deedsie

mickdw wrote: »

Vw uk have the chassis number checker up.
Just checked a 12 passat 1.6 here and it is effected as we suspected.
I'm sure this is 100% accurate.
No surprise that there is not a peep out of vw ireland.
I wouldnt be surprised if nothing was done here.


This is what they said

I got the same message as you. Bollox anyway.

John T Carroll

Deedsie wrote: »

I entered my VW Golf VIN and it came up saying "Your Car is not involved" Dont know if this is anyway accurate but sure hopefully it is a good sign

I entered son in laws 2010 Golf 1.6 TDI and nothing comes up, not even "you stupid Paddy this is only for Seats". If I click with just an empty entry it says "Invalid VIN"

I just entered it in VW UK and it says it is affected, I cant find anything in VW Ireland.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo

Deedsie

John T Carroll wrote: »

I entered son in laws 2010 Golf 1.6 TDI and nothing comes up, not even "you stupid Paddy this is only for Seats". If I click with just an empty entry it says "Invalid VIN"

I just entered it in VW UK and it says it is affected, I cant find anything in VW Ireland.

Ya I'm the same. Volkswagen Ireland car check website is to go up before Wednesday apparently. On the ball as always

Dord

Interesting comparison on a U.S.-spec Jetta TDI on a 4 wheel rolling road and then a 2 wheel rolling road. The latter forced the car into the "test" mode. This is looking at BHP & Torque only.

techie

I put my Seat Toledo into the Seat UK check and it says it has the EA189 engine and VW will be in touch.

I then put it into the VW site and its says it is not affected?

Long Time Lurker

So its a Daily Mail article but its probably the start of "they're all at it" season ..... which they probably are :-)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3259067/It-s-not-just-VW-Official-tester-claims-four-diesel-car-giants-break-toxic-emissions-limit.html

BoatMad

bigroad wrote: »

We can have any of those big American pickup trucks here running around and taxed as a commercial.
Our government don't offer any incentive to commercial vehicle owners here to buy greener.

I drive a nissan navara pickup !. It has a 2.5l diesel , not dissimilar to most diesel family cars

the 2016 navara has a 2.3 diesel


hardly a " big american pickup , most of them are petrol anyway

BoatMad

remember folks, if your car is recalled in Europe , its just to remove the " defeat software" nothing else is being done


whether Europe will actually deal with the on-road emissions scandal , well see, I dont think it will do anything in a hurry as it will not want to destroy its own diesel manufacturing business in the process

in The US, VW have a bigger problem as the CARB/EPA is insisting that the cars pass on-road limits. I dont believe VW can make the EA189 engine do that in any quise ( adblue or not ),


Note that several makes of VW car tested in the US , i.e. the passat use adblue. ( see the CARB letter, which mentions the selective catalytic reduction modifications , thats adblue ).


and any change is the value of VW cars is purely carpet bagging, since the car has not changed I fail to see why the value should

BoatMad

Deedsie wrote: »

Ya I'm the same. Volkswagen Ireland car check website is to go up before Wednesday apparently. On the ball as always

why are you checking, why even bother with the recall, its only VW saving face

BoatMad

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

So its a Daily Mail article but its probably the start of "they're all at it" season ..... which they probably are :-)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3259067/It-s-not-just-VW-Official-tester-claims-four-diesel-car-giants-break-toxic-emissions-limit.html

Poeple should read the source documents, rather then the newspapers, which have completely the wrong end of the stick

ICCT did a report, in EUROPE , on on-road emissions to help bolster groups that were lobbying the EU to deal with the issue of real life diesel pollution

This was back in 2013 and 2014, the EU and german transport ministers have long being receiving this lobbying , backed up by real world data ( I mean read the ICCT report its online). All these environmental groups were rebuffed

The clear facts are, in Europe

1. All the major models produce on road emissions 20-40 times more then the Euro 5 and Euro 6 limit figures for NOX. Even though Euro5 and Euro 6 tests set NOX at 0.08 g/km twice that of the US. ICCT claimed actually That Mercedes small diesels were one of the worst offender not VW.! It is actually legal to emit such levels because the levels are set in a test, and are not real world figures

2. All the engines on European roads have passed the Euro conformity tests, which have a tailpipe test ( unlike the US EPA which is self certified by the manufacturers ) VW have categorically conformed that the EA189 engine is euro 5 and euro 6 compliant



3. IN Europe , its clear that both regulators and manufacturers know that while they can " configure" the car to pass the Euro tests, on road the pollution is far greater


point 3 is the scandal that is going to break over Europe

The " defeat software" is a complete red herring in my view , because CARB on -road test show irrespective of the way the car is set up the VW passat never was in compliance, software or no software , i.e. basically the engine cant meet the EPA limits

Thats why in the US, VW are scratching around with no clear direction , a recall of these cars HAS already been done in 2014, no point in recalling them again, personally I believe VW can NEVER make the engine compliant and will have to buy the vehicles back and crush them !! ( and withdraw all diesels from the US market)

robnet77

BoatMad wrote: »

sorry mate your wrong here

VW has confirmed that the BOSCH test software is present in some euro models. Thats not surprising . because of the " moral panic" they are removing that software. nobody has either retested VW engines either before or after this event and no charges have been laid against VW Euro engines .Nothing will change in Euro VW diesels as a result of removing the software

VW has conformed that all its engines comply without using the specific BOSCH software and pass Euro 5 and Euro 6 tests

ICCT, the company that started all this , was actually doing a report evaluating why ALL europeans diesels were emitting way more pollution then the tests suggested. it actually found Mercedes to be the worst . THIS IS THE SCANDAL

ICCT then went to the states to compare its seemingly cleaner diesels ( as NOX legal limits are half that of europe ) since there are few diesels for sale in the USA, they used VW and BMW. what they found is that VW ( and to a lessor extent BMW) were exactly like their European counterparts, and this is why they sought an explanation from the EPA

( quick mate sell those shares in Merc now!!!)

People are reading the daily mail versions of this story and not reading the base documents.

What VW has confirmed so far is worth... nothing!

One would wonder why they installed the cheating software in all/most European engines, if their engines would have passed the tests anyway!

You are claiming that when the software gets removed, there will be no benefit/implication, yet why risk getting caught for no benefit?

Also, VW are putting aside millions of dollars as they predict that they will need to pay fines and compensate many people for the cheating software, are you saying this will have no implication on their sales policy/prices/reputation?

I don't give a flying flock about Mercedes or BMW, yes they might be even worse than VW and we'll find out in the next months how things will turn out.

BoatMad

What VW has confirmed so far is worth... nothing!

I suspect anything VAG says at the moment is extremely carefully worded and correct, They know the whole world is watching them,

NO-ONE not VW or the Euro test houses have said that the EA189 engine dosnt comply with Euro 5 and 6 test - NO-ONE official . VW are innocent until PROVEN guilty in that respect

One would wonder why they installed the cheating software in all/most European engines, if their engines would have passed the tests anyway!

Because the software was installed as part of a Bosch suite of test software in huge groups of cars manufactured by VW, this is how car companies build these systems, They avoid multiple versions in multiple markets wherever possible

Noet that the Test software has a purpose

It should also be noted that Euro Tests do not require on-road certification, you just have to show the engine us capable of passing the test, what it does on the road is actually legally irrelevant ( this is the scandal)

You are claiming that when the software gets removed, there will be no benefit/implication, yet why risk getting caught for no benefit?

The software does NOTHING for scar driven in the road , in Europe its being removed because of the hue and cry over VW. so as a sop ( i.e. to be seen to do something ) , VW are doing a " recall" to remove a piece a piece of software that in effect does nothing in normal driving. You rcaf will be identical before and after its removal.

Also, VW are putting aside millions of dollars as they predict that they will need to pay fines and compensate many people for the cheating software, are you saying this will have no implication on their sales policy/prices/reputation?

On what grounds , you in , europe, driving a Euro 5 or 6 compliant car , be entitled to any compensation

The compensation is being prepared for the US, where the CAA has been broken an d I suspect VW will be buying back the models affecting and withdrawing from the US diesel market

I don't give a flying flock about Mercedes or BMW, yes they might be even worse than VW and we'll find out in the next months how things will turn out.

so in effect you dont care about diesel pollution, so why be concerned about your car.. I mean dont dont go in for the recall if you dont want to


The important point being missed here , is that no testing actually showed the " defeat software " worked and made the car compliant , the CARB test did NOT do so, the EPA have " alleged " that it was used, but have not proven it . The only thing they are penalising VW for at this stage is the " existence" of the software, which VW self-admitted , neither the CARB or the EPA actually discovered this themselves

No-one has shown the software actually achieved anything, so its removal will not DO anything either

Deedsie

BoatMad wrote: »

why are you checking, why even bother with the recall, its only VW saving face

I am trying to sell the car. I want to be able reassure any potential buyer.

BoatMad

Deedsie wrote: »

I am trying to sell the car. I want to be able reassure any potential buyer.

re-assure him or her of " what" exactly

Deedsie

BoatMad wrote: »

re-assure him or her of " what" exactly

Any concerns that Seán or Síle public may have about a subject that has been all over the news about a vehicle I am trying to sell them.

BoatMad

Deedsie wrote: »

Any concerns that Seán or Síle public may have about a subject that has been all over the news about a vehicle I am trying to sell them.

what concerns , the media has published so much " nonsense " falsehoods, misunderstandings , Im sure Sean and Sile dont know what to believe

I mean is Sean concerned that your diesels NOX levels are 1.6g/km in real world on road testing !!!!. as opposed to the Euro 5 level of .8g/km( because THAT is all that we are talking about here, NOX levels NOTHING else )

jimgoose

Eric Cartman wrote: »

6.7 Litre powerstroke and $67,000 fully loaded , may not be so bad after all...

Oh hell yeah, diesel as she is goodly spocken. That'll have the Sphincter Police spluttering into their muesli quare live-lah! :pac:

BoatMad

Dord wrote: »

Interesting comparison on a U.S.-spec Jetta TDI on a 4 wheel rolling road and then a 2 wheel rolling road. The latter forced the car into the "test" mode. This is looking at BHP & Torque only.

oh for gods sake, is this muppet video still being referred to

The car wasn't put into any test mode

they generated a traction control fault and the engine reduced power as its supposed to


red neck muppet video

" I'h once fixed me a jaapanneeese transssmisssion " sort of US mechanics

Black_Knight

John T Carroll wrote: »

I entered son in laws 2010 Golf 1.6 TDI and nothing comes up, not even "you stupid Paddy this is only for Seats". If I click with just an empty entry it says "Invalid VIN"

I just entered it in VW UK and it says it is affected, I cant find anything in VW Ireland.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo

Site timing out for everyone else, yeah?

Dardania

Black_Knight wrote: »

Site timing out for everyone else, yeah?

Still in test mode

Black_Knight

Dardania wrote: »

Still in test mode

An engineer is currently working on a software patch. Once complete the site will be up and running [size=-2]and all cars will be compliant*


*loljk[/size]

dr.fuzzenstein

Black_Knight wrote: »

An engineer is currently working on a software patch. Once complete the site will be up and running [SIZE=-2]and all cars will be compliant*


*loljk[/SIZE]

You will be assimilated.

reklamos

All cars registered in Ireland can check if they are affected by entering reg number into link below:
http://www.campaigncheck.ie

josip

reklamos wrote: »

All cars registered in Ireland can check if they are affected by entering reg number into link below:
http://www.campaigncheck.ie

As expected, but nice to be sure.

reklamos

josip wrote: »

As expected, but nice to be sure.

Well I'm not so lucky. Waiting for mail form Skoda