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EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

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    #962
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Nobody's talking about this story anymore.

    On mars? This story has a long way to go.


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    #963
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Long Time Lurker wrote: »
    As a side note to all this: Lovers of the brand in here are acting like some sort of corporate bewitched army, like defenders of the realm, like this really matters to them. A personal onslaught if you will. The lack of clarity and inability to define unbiased personal option versus actual facts (a big company lied through its teeth) is bizzare given that so much of it is predicated on the back of some sort of an emotional personal connection with what is simply a huge company. Get over your Golfs and Passats. They're just cars :-)

    It's not even the brand, some people are taking it personally that diesel is being spoken of negatively more often as a result of this. You don't have to spend too long on the internet to realise there's people into all sorts of stuff, but a serious diesel fetish leading to complete denial of the truth? Yikes.


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    #964
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,379 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    pa990 wrote: »
    And a US gallon is about 3.8L, where a
    UK Gallon is 4.54L

    My point being that the EPA already rates diesels as getting a certain MPG which is better than petrol, and in real-world driving, the diesel's even better than that. My fuel bill has plummeted since I started driving a diesel. Saying that the MPG figures are a con, I think, is a red herring. The diesel is likely to retain its MPG advantage in the U.S.


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    #965
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    FortySeven wrote: »
    On mars? This story has a long way to go.

    I mean outside of forums.
    Shock came first, then jokes, now nobody cares.

    Like David Cameron and his antics, nobody cares. Everybody likes to have a go and be offended, but deep down they know it doesn't affect them in any big way


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    #966
    Long Time Lurker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Long Time Lurker


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    I mean outside of forums.
    Shock came first, then jokes, now nobody cares.

    That's not true at all. There's a good few Anxious and terse responses from owners at the moment if its mentioned. They're right pissed off with being the butt end of jokes Lada style and its telling. Just ask them. They get it every day.

    On a personal level I know two VW reps who've openly told me they've had cancelled sales because of this. Course the would. There is always a reaction be it dim witted or genuine fear. Will it matter in 10 years? Probably not. There's never been a better time to buy veedub shares I say. Is it impacting today. Bloody sure it is. I don't know what rock you've been hiding under for then last week but its everywhere.


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    #967
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Just to clarify, I mean outside of the U.S.


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    #968
    Long Time Lurker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Long Time Lurker


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Just to clarify, I mean outside of the U.S.

    Spoke with a mate of mine in Canada on Friday. Works in a dealership over there. VW drivers effectively feel dupped and have made to look ripped off, sold a dud as such. Given their (VW buyers) convictions to buy what's seen as an over priced , short warranty, diesel car in the first place they really are taking flak. VW were already flagging lately compared to the Koreans. Maybe its different in the US!


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    #969
    James Delaney
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭James Delaney


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Nobody's talking about this story anymore.

    U must b joking - Its the biggest corporate f up in history. U must b very innocent or uneducated.


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    #970
    Fiskar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Just to clarify, I mean outside of the U.S.

    Simply not true, lad at work found out this week his car is affected and he ain't happy. Now he has to wait, he cannot sell it and has just fed a new DMF - Clutch into it.


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    #971
    alan partridge aha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    James Delaney wrote: »
    U must b joking - Its the biggest corporate f up in history. U must b very innocent or uneducated.

    That's a little out of order.


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    #972
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Fiskar wrote: »
    Simply not true, lad at work found out this week his car is affected and he ain't happy. Now he has to wait, he cannot sell it and has just fed a new DMF - Clutch into it.

    How do you mean he can't sell it?


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    #973
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    Long Time Lurker wrote: »
    That's not true at all. There's a good few Anxious and terse responses from owners at the moment if its mentioned. They're right pissed off with being the butt end of jokes Lada style and its telling. Just ask them. They get it every day.

    On a personal level I know two VW reps who've openly told me they've had cancelled sales because of this. Course the would. There is always a reaction be it dim witted or genuine fear. Will it matter in 10 years? Probably not. There's never been a better time to buy veedub shares I say. Is it impacting today. Bloody sure it is. I don't know what rock you've been hiding under for then last week but its everywhere.

    too early yet to be buying shares. Too many unknowns yet. Compensation and fines yet to come and only 6bn allocated. Don't try catching the knife. Pick it up off the floor when it's settled.


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    #974
    Long Time Lurker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Long Time Lurker


    No, not a thing! How it even made the news I dont know! :-)

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/11/eu-bank-could-demand-loans-back-from-vw?CMP=twt_gu


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    #975
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    I mean outside of forums.
    Shock came first, then jokes, now nobody cares.

    Like David Cameron and his antics, nobody cares. Everybody likes to have a go and be offended, but deep down they know it doesn't affect them in any big way


    10c levy on a litre of petrol to sway people towards "clean, green, environmentally amazing" diesel affects every pay packet I get.

    Paying 5 times the tax of someone in an "environmentally responsible" car affects every pay packet I get. This is not begrudgery, I just hate illogical and unscientific crap being peddled as truth.

    Let those who will genuinely benefit from a diesel get a diesel, but the skewing of the market and incentivising for diesel everywhere for everything was complete BS.


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    #976
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    James Delaney wrote: »
    You will find many Yanks bought their VWs for their Green credentials & yes the VW cars will depreciate faster than b4- no longer will VW be able to charge their fanciful premium prices r brand their cars as the best in class - why do you think their share price is down 40%. ??? Why are VW cutting their costs = Workforce - cas they wont be assembling as many cars as b4. Also I doubt the footfall in VW showrooms in the last 2 wks was anything near before their deceitful ways came to light. Brand Image is everything - VWs is in the mire.

    So much for nonsense - Economics says it all & Customer Confidence. Simply, Supply & Demand - Its called equlibrium & VW cars are no longer in great demand, while their stock yards are cramed with them.

    we shall see, long term I dont see this having a huge dent in VW, NA diesels are a pimple for them. Short term will be expensive.

    They'll survive this


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    #977
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    I just hate illogical and unscientific crap being peddled as truth.

    you must do a lot of hating in this modern world :D


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    #978
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    VW drivers effectively feel dupped and have made to look ripped off, sold a dud

    They got a more powerful and economical car, at the expense of more NOX production, just how are they " duped"

    I can see it now, ( 2014 buyer of VW) " yes I know its got leather , alloys, great economy and power, but Im really concerned about Nitrous Oxide waste products from diesels ", " I wont buy a car unless it has less then 0.8g/km of NOX emissions , "

    " oh yes i see " bemused salesman," I see , well it got a great NOX reduction system", " Best of class lean Burn NOX traps", " advanced Diesel exhaust fluid system saves 10 trees every km " ,

    " oh great , thats the VW for me , heres my 20K".


    ....2015

    " Ive been duped you scummy salesman ", " sure the power is great , the economy is fantastic , the quality is brilliant ", " but at 1.6g/km NOX I feel duped and my car is valueless ".."

    I know sir , we're terribly sorry, you see three engineers have been sacked in Wolfsberg, they were responsible for screwing up 20 million cars by themselves ", " but we have developed the 'eco-upgrade ' advanced decombobulator fix ", " once we fit that everything is back to normal "..

    "oh I see , I still feel duped , and and angry, but thanks for the nice VW pen and the free coffee , with real milk too, I can see VW are really making amends "

    "bye"


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    #979
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    BoatMad wrote: »
    They'll survive this

    They are too big to fail.

    Some of those responsible will retire or be fired. Many more blameless workers will be cut so the upper echelons can appease the markets. The wheel keeps on turning.


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    #980
    Fiskar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    How do you mean he can't sell it?

    Its obvious no one will touch it without the fix, he wants the fix, I think the fix will affect performance, not everyone wants the fix, however unless he gets the fix no garage will probably accept it in a year of two unless he gets the fix done.

    He is boxed in at the moment until the fix becomes clear.


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    #981
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    If the fix is detrimental to the cars fuel economy and performance, why would people not buy a used VW unless it was done?

    Don't say they care about the emissions....

    a car without the fix will appeal though those not bothered by it,those that want it "fixed" can do so.

    i know a few people with affected cars and they're saying there's no way they'll bring them in. I can't see there being any consequences for not doing it apart from a few token letters.


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    #982
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    BoatMad wrote: »
    They got a more powerful and economical car, at the expense of more NOX production, just how are they " duped"

    the meaning of Duped is deceived...
    so buying something that is not as advertised is being deceived... The Car was not as per the conformation certificate.. therefore the customer was deceived, or duped....



    whether the car is better or not is completely irrelevant.


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    #983
    Fiskar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    If the fix is detrimental to the cars fuel economy and performance, why would people not buy a used VW unless it was done?

    Don't say they care about the emissions....

    a car without the fix will appeal though those not bothered by it,those that want it "fixed" can do so.

    i know a few people with affected cars and they're saying there's no way they'll bring them in. I can't see there being any consequences for not doing it apart from a few token letters.

    Exactly, there will be a 75% take-up, those that want to sell it or trade it in, those that hold on to the car won't be bothered.


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    #984
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Why would a garage trading it in or someone buying the car privately care whether it was done or not?


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    #985
    Fiskar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Why would a garage trading it in care whether it was done or not?

    I wouldn't buy one that is tainted without the fix, non VW franchaise will not pay top dollar for one without the fix.


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    #986
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    I think you're overestimating people!
    Non franchise or franchise dealer will price the car the same as they price any car. Based on what they can sell it for.
    The fix is free anyway, it's not like not having it done will wreck the car. Tainted.....


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    #987
    H.E. Pennypacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭H.E. Pennypacker


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Why would a garage trading it in or someone buying the car privately care whether it was done or not?

    I went to a main dealer yesterday, test drove a car and sat down to talk money. The salesman made a lowball offer for mine on the basis that it is affected and will be recalled. His arguments were that (a) it might be less attractive to buyers (b) it might be recategorised for road tax (c) it might incur additional VRT (d) it might just take up space on the forecourt until a fix became available some time next year.

    He missed out on a sale but it shows you what some in the trade are thinking.


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    #988
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »
    I went to a main dealer yesterday, test drove a car and sat down to talk money. The salesman made a lowball offer for mine on the basis that it is affected and will be recalled. His arguments were that (a) it might be less attractive to buyers (b) it might be recategorised for road tax (c) it might incur additional VRT (d) it might just take up space on the forecourt until a fix became available some time next year.

    He missed out on a sale but it shows you what some in the trade are thinking.

    Yes but remember, you are just being lowballed .....


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    #989
    Long Time Lurker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Long Time Lurker


    H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »
    I went to a main dealer yesterday, test drove a car and sat down to talk money. The salesman made a lowball offer for mine on the basis that it is affected and will be recalled. His arguments were that (a) it might be less attractive to buyers (b) it might be recategorised for road tax (c) it might incur additional VRT (d) it might just take up space on the forecourt until a fix became available some time next year.


    He missed out on a sale but it shows you what some in the trade are thinking.

    All sales guys are at it and why wouldn't they. A genuine opportunity to devalue the vehicle and play on the owners fears. It's free money and the more it happens the more its likely to happen.

    Like I said earlier in this thread, nobody pre reg'd more on the last day of the month than VW group. There's a reason for that. Manipulation. They had to show that it wasn't affecting sales but it is. The short term knock on effects are discounted Veedubs. Buy one is my advice. Still doesn't change the fact that, despite protestations to the contrary, it is having an affect and a big one at that.


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    #990
    Fiskar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    Yeah, dipping my toe in the water on an Audi for 2016, seeing how desparate they are for sales.


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    #991
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »
    I went to a main dealer yesterday, test drove a car and sat down to talk money. The salesman made a lowball offer for mine on the basis that it is affected and will be recalled. His arguments were that (a) it might be less attractive to buyers (b) it might be recategorised for road tax (c) it might incur additional VRT (d) it might just take up space on the forecourt until a fix became available some time next year.

    He missed out on a sale but it shows you what some in the trade are thinking.

    So you found a dishonest, unscrupulous dealer that is using underhanded scare tactics to try and screw you for as much as they can possibly get out of a potentially clueless and worried consumer. Bravo that man. Would be nice if you named this scamster so the rest of us can avoid him.


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