EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

5W30 · 18-10-2015 9:18am

BoatMad wrote: »

What did they steal ?

They charged people a premium price for cars that they didn't even bother to engineer properly and created cheat devices instead. Less work more money.

Gazzmonkey · 18-10-2015 9:51am

5W30 wrote: »

They charged people a premium price for cars that they didn't even bother to engineer properly and created cheat devices instead. Less work more money.

lol

5W30 · 18-10-2015 10:42am

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

lol

Nice contribution to the thread!

vectra · 18-10-2015 11:07am

Marcusm wrote: »

No history ? Does the $14.3bn the EPA extracted from BP as part of the overall settlement count for nothing. I would regard that as a significant sum.

It's true that the Koreans (Hyundai and Kia) were only fined $100m for 1m cars but they understated emissions, they did not install a so called defeat device. You can guarantee that the US govt has seen the 7bn provision and will scale it's fine accordingly. They have nothing to fear in raining hell on a niche manufacturer of cars they never want to see on their roads.

Of course my comments are speculative; what else could they be.

I suppose in a roundabout way, If the Americans throw a massive fine on VW they could always react to that and make a decision to withdraw all VAG groups sales from the US. How many dealerships would that close down and cost the state on unemployment

5W30 wrote: »

They charged people a premium price for cars that they didn't even bother to engineer properly and created cheat devices instead. Less work more money.

What did they steal from you?

I have had several new VW group cars and would buy another from them tomorrow.
I got value for my money.
Premium??
You think because of a bit of software coding they suddenly are less well built cars?
I dont understand your comment

bazz26 · 18-10-2015 1:25pm

This thread is just gone plain silly now.

dr.fuzzenstein · 18-10-2015 1:40pm

bazz26 wrote: »

This thread is just gone plain silly now.

No! VW's are polluting, baby murdering planet destroyers. But these are light trucks (V8 diesel, no DPF, no CAT, all 6+ liters) on the other hand are perfectly fine. 'Murica! One wonders if the country of origin might possibly have something to do with it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wAs1Ctd9vw

Hypocrisy and stupidity of the highest order. Which one is going to kill babies and turn this planet into Waterworld? Not the VW. It's just a chance to stick it to Johnny Foreigner.
That is not diesel smoke coming from those stacks, it's pure freedom! 'Murica!

mickdw · 18-10-2015 2:12pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

No! VW's are polluting, baby murdering planet destroyers. But these are light trucks (V8 diesel, no DPF, no CAT, all 6+ liters) on the other hand are perfectly fine. 'Murica! One wonders if the country of origin might possibly have something to do with it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wAs1Ctd9vw

Hypocrisy and stupidity of the highest order. Which one is going to kill babies and turn this planet into Waterworld? Not the VW. It's just a chance to stick it to Johnny Foreigner.
That is not diesel smoke coming from those stacks, it's pure freedom! 'Murica!

Your point obviously stands re the stupidity of the Americans machinery with the crazy exhaust smoke etc but that does not relieve vw of their responsibilities. They went into the American market and offered this clean product for the American market. They were happy to take the sales achieved by offering a fuel efficient clean product.
When you have achieved the clean credentials via a cheat and then been caught red handed, it is not then good enough to say look what the American trucks are putting out.

vectra · 18-10-2015 5:33pm

bazz26 wrote: »

This thread is just gone plain silly now.

It was silly from day one as I can assure you many of the posters here and blasters do not own a VW affected car so would make no odds to them

dr.fuzzenstein · 18-10-2015 7:45pm

mickdw wrote: »

Your point obviously stands re the stupidity of the Americans machinery with the crazy exhaust smoke etc but that does not relieve vw of their responsibilities. They went into the American market and offered this clean product for the American market. They were happy to take the sales achieved by offering a fuel efficient clean product.
When you have achieved the clean credentials via a cheat and then been caught red handed, it is not then good enough to say look what the American trucks are putting out.

No argument re VW and their cheating. And obviously VW aren't saying this, I'm just making the point that right now the planet is registering a wave of mild earthquakes as scores of concerned citizens sh*t their pants in unison and doing a hysterical dance whilst jumping up and down.
Meanwhile elsewhere in the US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOj6gPwkiXg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnm1pw594RU

Yep, no problem with that, yessireebob! I keep going back to it, people are saying oh noes! those awful diesels cars, I think I got miner's lung, cough cough, I will be ever so happy if those filthy diesels are gone, everything will be so much better and mother earth will be forever safe!
How naive would one have to be to actually believe that.

robtri · 18-10-2015 8:00pm

vectra wrote: »

It was silly from day one as I can assure you many of the posters here and blasters do not own a VW affected car so would make no odds to them

So only people who own an affected VW should be posting here? or concerned about VW actions??

gctest50 · 18-10-2015 8:01pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

No argument re VW and their cheating. And obviously VW aren't saying this, I'm just making the point that right now the planet is registering a wave of mild earthquakes as scores of concerned citizens sh*t their pants in unison and doing a hysterical dance whilst jumping up and down. ....................
Yep, no problem with that, yessireebob! I keep going back to it, people are saying oh noes! those awful diesels cars, I think I got miner's lung, cough cough, I will be ever so happy if those filthy diesels are gone, everything will be so much better and mother earth will be forever safe!
How naive would one have to be to actually believe that.

that's not the point though - they sold them as "less-polluting-diesels"

many people would have bought them on that point alone

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

everything will be so much better and mother earth will be forever safe!

not many expect " be so much better" - a bit better was nice until it turned out to be a 40-time-over lie

i'm just waiting for someone with the skills to re-edit this

Lissavane · 18-10-2015 8:32pm

Marcusm wrote: »

No history ? Does the $14.3bn the EPA extracted from BP as part of the overall settlement count for nothing. I would regard that as a significant sum.

It's true that the Koreans (Hyundai and Kia) were only fined $100m for 1m cars but they understated emissions, they did not install a so called defeat device. You can guarantee that the US govt has seen the 7bn provision and will scale it's fine accordingly. They have nothing to fear in raining hell on a niche manufacturer of cars they never want to see on their roads.

Of course my comments are speculative; what else could they be.

US foreign policy may have played a role in leniency towards the Koreans. They want to develop that economy in order to reenforce their influence in that geographic area.

It's unlikely they'll have the same sympathy towards a European manufacturer. Merkel's apparent policy of inundating Europe with Muslim migrants won't help Germany in the eyes of the US either.

josip · 18-10-2015 8:36pm

Is there anything to stop the US imposing a $50bn fine on VW and bankrupting the entire company?

vectra · 18-10-2015 9:53pm

robtri wrote: »

So only people who own an affected VW should be posting here? or concerned about VW actions??

Didn't say that. But sure why would it bother any of them?
Same thing when Toyota were in the headlines about some faulty part. ( Steering lock??))
I dont even bother posting about it as it did not affect me.

Red Alert · 18-10-2015 11:06pm

Is it ridiculous to suggest that people like me who were duped make it the dealers' problem? I bought my car from a dealer in South Dublin, my purchase was with them rather than VW. I'm sure if a lot of customers began sending solicitors' letters and wasting dealers time that this would get kicked up to VW. I'm undecided about whether I would be bothered having the "fix" applied if it involves a reduction in either economy or performance. I would rather have a refund, and would feel morally entitled to one, but I don't see the legalities playing out that way.

dr.fuzzenstein · 19-10-2015 12:04am

Red Alert wrote: »

Is it ridiculous to suggest that people like me who were duped make it the dealers' problem? I bought my car from a dealer in South Dublin, my purchase was with them rather than VW. I'm sure if a lot of customers began sending solicitors' letters and wasting dealers time that this would get kicked up to VW. I'm undecided about whether I would be bothered having the "fix" applied if it involves a reduction in either economy or performance. I would rather have a refund, and would feel morally entitled to one, but I don't see the legalities playing out that way.

If I bought a car that became unusable due to a fault, I would want my money back. In a way your car is still exactly the same as it was when you bought it. It starts, runs and gets you to where you want to go in the exact same way it did before the scandal. There are no restrictions on driving it, it won't be reclassed, scrapped or will become unusable in any way as far as we can see. But suddenly it has become an undrivable abomination, why? I can't see any other argument than "but it kills flowers now!"

Red Alert · 19-10-2015 12:11am

It's not undriveable, far from it, but the fix if applied may make it so by reducing performance. VW are being very circumspect about what exactly this fix involves. If it's more urea injection or similar, which would most likely leave performance and economy unaffected then that would be acceptable. If however there's a negative hit on these aspects of it then it's unacceptable to me.

My main problem is that the test defeat software will undoubtedly reduce the resale value significantly. Secondly, this raises further questions: are similar defeats present in the software elsewhere with respect to other vehicle tests?

pablo128 · 19-10-2015 12:14am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If I bought a car that became unusable due to a fault, I would want my money back. In a way your car is still exactly the same as it was when you bought it. It starts, runs and gets you to where you want to go in the exact same way it did before the scandal. There are no restrictions on driving it, it won't be reclassed, scrapped or will become unusable in any way as far as we can see. But suddenly it has become an undrivable abomination, why? I can't see any other argument than "but it kills flowers now!"

Look at it this way. Toyota decided it couldn't advance the diesel engine any more so stopped making them. They are buying in BMW engines that haven't got the greatest rep themselves. Now this is in the middle of a huge popularity in diesels, so it's bound to effect their sales.

VW are bound to have profited from this. By bare faced cheating. So it's a huge issue in the motor industry now.

megafan · 19-10-2015 12:25am

If your car is producing more toxic CO2 emissions than manufacturer stated to authorities might you end up in a higher co2 band…. so could you also be liable to pay unpaid back taxes…..

JohnBoy26 · 19-10-2015 12:36am

megafan wrote: »

If your car is producing more toxic CO2 emissions than manufacturer stated to authorities might you end up in a higher co2 band…. so could you also be liable to pay unpaid back taxes…..

This won't happen, it's already been clarified.

JohnBoy26 · 19-10-2015 12:39am

vectra wrote: »

Didn't say that. But sure why would it bother any of them?
Same thing when Toyota were in the headlines about some faulty part. ( Steering lock??))
I dont even bother posting about it as it did not affect me.

The Toyota recalls were a totally different situation. Volkswagen aren't making headlines for recalls. It's much more serious than that.

mickdw · 19-10-2015 12:47am

If the required fix alters performance in any way or requires an additional fluid system added, I figure vw are immediately into compensation or even refund territory.
The are already Irish solicitors looking to get involved in this and one of them has suggested that as a starting point before anyone let vw work on our alter any vehicle that an Engineer should be appointed to inspect it. The solicitor claims they would seek recovery of this cost from vw. Now much as it would be difficult to inspect, I do agree that any owner should be able to avail of independent engineering advice and as such vw could very easily find themselves of the hook for those sort of costs here in Ireland.
where all that would end, it's hard to know.

megafan · 19-10-2015 1:03am

If your car is producing more toxic CO2 emissions than manufacturer stated to authorities might you end up in a higher co2 band…. so could you also be liable to pay unpaid back taxes…..

vectra · 19-10-2015 1:32am

megafan wrote: »

If your car is producing more toxic CO2 emissions than manufacturer stated to authorities might you end up in a higher co2 band…. so could you also be liable to pay unpaid back taxes…..

No
This is Nox gas and not Co2.
Will not affect tax rates.

Markcheese · 19-10-2015 1:53am

vectra wrote: »

No
This is Nox gas and not Co2.
Will not affect tax rates.

Unless of course their nox fix, ups the co2 emissions -

megafan · 19-10-2015 1:56am

if under test VW cars produce less Nox gas you could presume Co2 readings would be different (less)t also?

Markcheese · 19-10-2015 1:59am

josip wrote: »

Is there anything to stop the US imposing a $50bn fine on VW and bankrupting the entire company?

I assume they can only fine (and bankrupt) the us division of Volkswagen ???

dr.fuzzenstein · 19-10-2015 7:11am

mickdw wrote: »

If the required fix alters performance in any way or requires an additional fluid system added, I figure vw are immediately into compensation or even refund territory.
The are already Irish solicitors looking to get involved in this and one of them has suggested that as a starting point before anyone let vw work on our alter any vehicle that an Engineer should be appointed to inspect it. The solicitor claims they would seek recovery of this cost from vw. Now much as it would be difficult to inspect, I do agree that any owner should be able to avail of independent engineering advice and as such vw could very easily find themselves of the hook for those sort of costs here in Ireland.
where all that would end, it's hard to know.

It would be insanely stupid to inspect every single vehicle if the same procedure is carried out on them. Some solicitor looking for free publicity by making idiotic statements.

BoatMad · 19-10-2015 4:20pm

sheesh

firstly the recall isn't mandatory in Ireland or the UK,

secondly the car isn't devalued, what has changed today from a month ago. ?

If you " feel " the software is devaluing it, one of the key issues in the recall is that VW will remove it.

I love the complete bullSh!ttery, thats suggest an " engineer" can determine changes to the ECU . Given that Bosch and VW are NEVER going to release the source code, of the ECU.

megafan

If your car is producing more toxic CO2 emissions than manufacturer stated to authorities might you end up in a higher co2 band…. so could you also be liable to pay unpaid back taxes…..

Your car and every car produces more emissions then the manufacturer stated. The tests amounts only apply to the test cycle ( NEDC in Europe ). There is in effect NO control over what happens on the car under real conditions

Amprodude · 19-10-2015 4:34pm

You spend x amount of money on a brand new vw or second hand vw and then this emerges. It's the buyers who will be slaughtered in the end not the rich executives of VW. I won't be buying another car with that vw logo on it that's for sure.

EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

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