EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

Special Circumstances

everlast75 wrote: »

You said it was a bucket of ****e.

I replied you that from my perspective it isn't and explained why.

You then change the topic to cheap car tax? How about telling my why the car is a bucket of ****e, akin to a 250e Micra on Gumtree, which properly fits that description.



I already said their reputation was tarnished. I also said people will be put off buying them.

I believe that will be overcome, but I'm not a professor in economics and neither are you, so its just our view.

Of course we are worried about image and repayments. We just made a 20, 30 or 40k investment - who the F*** would not be concerned!? To trivialize or downplay that as being a bad thing is nonsense. You and everybody else would be exactly the same.

What I have a problem with is people with obvious disposition to disliking the brand and/or the fuel gloating on here and stating with utmost certainty that anyone with one is banjaxed and the company will go under. So, I tend to discount those that have a vested interest. I would prefer to rely on the facts and await the outcome.

I did not.

But in your rattled condition I can see how you would mistake me for a different poster. Have you been breathing in a lot of toxic emissions lately?

everlast75

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I did not.

But in your rattled condition I can see how you would mistake me for a different poster. Have you been breathing in a lot of toxic emissions lately?

My apologies - to sift through some of the **** on this thread can be difficult at the best of times. Its nothing to do with being "rattled".

It was in fact originally posted by 5W30, you were just swaying in swiftly afterwards so it was you who posted an irrelevant comment. Its easy to see how the confusion can be caused.

Special Circumstances

everlast75 wrote: »

It was in fact originally posted by 5W30, you were just swaying in swiftly afterwards so it was you who posted an irrelevant comment.

Oh god , I swear I'm not crying... it's just soot in my eye... :pac:

Gazzmonkey

Funny thread if nothing else

MuppetCheck

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The image and repayments. The only thing most new VW buyers care about.

What I find hilarious is the only people in this thread who are trying to play this down are VW owners. Which is typical.

I wouldn't be an active diesel hater, although I dont particularly enjoy it in my own vehicles. The "proclamation of VW's demise" is looking to be factually correct. Huge dip in share share values has already happened, some countries applied bans on the sale of affected vehicles, a certain percentage of customers will also now be put off purchasing a future VAG and it's going to cost billions for the recalls to be completed.

None of these are good for a company.

I'd agree to an extent.

As a VAG diesel owner (not affected...yet:D) I'm not bothered what comes out the back to be hoenst. Was never a factor in my decision making or would ever be to be hoenst.

But this is a monumental fcuk-up. It's going to hit them in the US for sure apart from the fines the litigation is going to be a major issue. Here...I'm on the fence for the moment. Some people will be weary, its not going to improve values that's for sure but I sense this will blow over if they can find a way to solve it without stifling performance and increasing running costs. If not...I'd urge everyone to get a before and after reading on a dyno for power at least.

I can't help but thinking they weren't the only ones at it mind. This is going to go on for a long while yet.

Toyotafanboi

MuppetCheck wrote: »

I'd agree to an extent.

As a VAG diesel owner (not affected...yet:D) I'm not bothered what comes out the back to be hoenst. Was never a factor in my decision making or would ever be to be hoenst.

That's a good point I didn't consider actually, and is probably the reason most owners done care. Is because it was never a deciding factor in the first place. I suppose that changes things a bit!

5W30

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

That's a good point I didn't consider actually, and is probably the reason most owners done care. Is because it was never a deciding factor in the first place. I suppose that changes things a bit!

Yeah but who goes out and says (except for Mad Lad) "Jeez I'll get myself a nice car that outputs a low NOx/CO2 rate".

That is not the point.

The point is people buy a car for the overall package for a lump sum. So for your 20/30/40k you're getting a car which has decent power, decent fuel consumption, decent tax, decent comfort and decent emissions, regardless if it was a deciding factor or not.

So you bought yourself a nicely crafted, well built car featuring German engineering and now you find out that well... YOU HAVEN'T.

What you HAVE got is a can of worms disguised as a can of beans. Yes, maybe you didn't care about emissions initially when you bought the car, but you were in fact done and got yourself a car that is different than described.

VW engineers failed to design an engine to standards (Yes, USA standards but just because NOx isn't tested in Europe doesn't mean we should ignore it) and simply cheated the test ruining their own reputation whilst taking your money for something that isn't worth the money you paid for it.

You can come here and say "aaah shuure I don't care" but the fact of the matter is - you wouldn't be here defending your quality German car if you weren't disappointed.

josip

5W30, you seem to be more upset about this than most others.

vectra

josip wrote: »

5W30, you seem to be more upset about this than most others.

Along with other non vw owners

5W30

josip wrote: »

5W30, you seem to be more upset about this than most others.

It doesn't affect me so why would I be disappointed? I didn't fork out huge money for a VAG car :rolleyes:

If that's all you have to say then it shows it all

bazz26

Toyota are hardly the innocent car maker either yet there "good" image and strong brand seems to have survived:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214

colm_mcm

Was it ever actually proven that accelerators were actually sticky though? I genuinely don't remember.

josip

5W30 wrote: »

It doesn't affect me so why would I be disappointed? I didn't fork out huge money for a VAG car :rolleyes:

If that's all you have to say then it shows it all

Why are your posts bitter and antagonistic 5W30?

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote: »

Was it ever actually proven that accelerators were actually sticky though? I genuinely don't remember.

Why would they then pay out $1.5 billion to avoid prosecution though?

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote: »

Why would they then pay out $1.5 billion to avoid prosecution though?

It's America to be fair.

bazz26

Sounds to me like they settled to avoid further damage.

colm_mcm

I don't think it was actually proven that there was a fault though.

5W30

josip wrote: »

Why are your posts bitter and antagonistic 5W30?

Do you honestly have nothing better to say?

Your posts here seem as useful as that of someone telling us that:

• The sky is blue
• The grass is green
• The wind blows

If you have nothing to add except for silly insults then don't post.

bazz26

Well you would imagine if they were innocent of any wrong doing that they would have a room full of expensive lawyers poking holes in the claims rather than just paying up to put it behind them.

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote: »

Well you would imagine if they were innocent of any wrong doing that they would have a room full of expensive lawyers poking holes in the claims rather than just paying up to put it behind them.

I don't know bazz, I reckon there was a lot going on in the Toyota case behind the scenes that didn't get reported

5W30

colm_mcm wrote: »

I don't know bazz, I reckon there was a lot going on in the Toyota case behind the scenes that didn't get reported

But as mentioned earlier - they didn't do it on purpose, i.e. they didn't have a negative intent. This cannot be said for VAG however. Their intentions were negative and unfortunately they got caught out.

Toyotafanboi

bazz26 wrote: »

Toyota are hardly the innocent car maker either yet there "good" image and strong brand seems to have survived:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214

You're a bit late with that, been brought up countless times already.

Tl;dr for you, different story altogether. Toyota made an honest mistake, rectified it. VW lied for profit, looking at rectifying it.

two wheels good

5W30 wrote: »

But as mentioned earlier - they didn't do it on purpose, i.e. they didn't have a negative intent. This cannot be said for VAG however. Their intentions were negative and unfortunately they got caught out.

Don't you mean "fortunately"

5W30

two wheels good wrote: »

Don't you mean "fortunately"

I cannot say things like that! They're already claiming I'm an antagonist :pac:

two wheels good

5W30 wrote: »

I cannot say things like that! They're already claiming I'm an antagonist :pac:

Okay I'll say it: Fortunately, a cynical corporate deceipt was uncovered by the diligent work of regulators and boffins.

Unfortunately, Herr W. seems to have ridden off into the sunset with his Euro2m pension pot and 2 years severence pay. No doubt some minions will be scapegoated for all this.

BoatMad

Okay I'll say it: Fortunately, a cynical corporate deceipt was uncovered by the diligent work of regulators and boffins.

actually VW effectively self confessed , boffins actually forced on on road emissions and not tests, regulators were entirely useless

BoatMad

5W30 wrote: »

Yeah but who goes out and says (except for Mad Lad) "Jeez I'll get myself a nice car that outputs a low NOx/CO2 rate".

That is not the point.

The point is people buy a car for the overall package for a lump sum. So for your 20/30/40k you're getting a car which has decent power, decent fuel consumption, decent tax, decent comfort and decent emissions, regardless if it was a deciding factor or not.

So you bought yourself a nicely crafted, well built car featuring German engineering and now you find out that well... YOU HAVEN'T.

What you HAVE got is a can of worms disguised as a can of beans. Yes, maybe you didn't care about emissions initially when you bought the car, but you were in fact done and got yourself a car that is different than described.

VW engineers failed to design an engine to standards (Yes, USA standards but just because NOx isn't tested in Europe doesn't mean we should ignore it) and simply cheated the test ruining their own reputation whilst taking your money for something that isn't worth the money you paid for it.

You can come here and say "aaah shuure I don't care" but the fact of the matter is - you wouldn't be here defending your quality German car if you weren't disappointed.

Sorry , lets stay in Europe and analyse your post

The point is people buy a car for the overall package for a lump sum. So for your 20/30/40k you're getting a car which has decent power, decent fuel consumption, decent tax, decent comfort and decent emissions, regardless if it was a deciding factor or not.

indeed, though marketing would suggest a car is a lifestyle purchase primarily , but lets not quibble

So you bought yourself a nicely crafted, well built car featuring German engineering and now you find out that well... YOU HAVEN'T.

err it is clearly still a well built functional car, thats has a bit of tweaked software in it

IN Europe no-one has said the car hasn't passed the Euro 5/6 NEDC tests

What you HAVE got is a can of worms disguised as a can of beans. Yes, maybe you didn't care about emissions initially when you bought the car, but you were in fact done and got yourself a car that is different than described.

The car you bought in europe is exactly as described, nothing has changed . where exactly is this " can of worms "

VW engineers failed to design an engine to standards (Yes, USA standards but just because NOx isn't tested in Europe doesn't mean we should ignore it) and simply cheated the test ruining their own reputation whilst taking your money for something that isn't worth the money you paid for i

Indeed in the USA, this may be the case ( as we havent yet seen what VW are going to do with the cars to make them compliant or not )

But in Europe Euro 5 and Euro 6 tests DO TEST for NOx and the engines comply
( even if you argue that NEDC tests are far too lenient, a different situation entirely ) . SO you have a fully compliant car in Europe for which you paid your money

Special Circumstances

BoatMad wrote: »

actually VW effectively self confessed , boffins actually forced on on road emissions and not tests, regulators were entirely useless

Could you put the other "BoatMad" back on, he made some good points and was factually correct some of the time. Not sure how many of ye are at this, but at least one of ye on that account is fully aware of the following.

Boffins - ICCT exposed this through their independent testing.
Regulators - ICCT passed this info onto CARB and EPA in 2014 who kept turning the screw on VW until they eventually stopped stonewalling and lying.

Regualtors AND boffins.

BoatMad

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Could you put the other "BoatMad" back on, he made some good points and was factually correct some of the time. Not sure how many of ye are at this, but at least one of ye on that account is fully aware of the following.

Boffins - ICCT exposed this through their independent testing.
Regulators - ICCT passed this info onto CARB and EPA in 2014 who kept turning the screw on VW until they eventually stopped stonewalling and lying.

Regualtors AND boffins.

i dont think that recalling 400,000 cars and trying a software fix in 2014 cant be regarded as " stonewalling"

Yes the fundemental reason is simply , that Gen1 ( in particular) USA VW diesels with the Lean NOx trap, was never compliant ( defeat software or not) . VW therefore must have frigged the compliance test ( this test is done by the manufacturer not EPA by the way)

The software defeat device is a red herring

two wheels good

BoatMad wrote: »

actually VW effectively self confessed , boffins actually forced on on road emissions and not tests, regulators were entirely useless

Not true.
Based on the interview I heard with one of the two US boffins instrumental in the testing, VW staff prevaricated and evaded during a series of meeting before eventually coming clean.

Also, curious how emissions controls software wasn't declared in the 2016 models either - as is required by the type approval regulations. I'm not claiming this software was necessarily test cheating software. Just that "honest and open" is not VW's way. I hope that will change.