EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

mickdw

They would have to do abit better than that in the us.

vectra

mickdw wrote: »

They would have to do abit better than that in the us.

not just the U.S either i'd say.

Toyotafanboi

Credit to the car memes page on facebook.

dr.fuzzenstein

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Credit to the car memes page on facebook.

http://s1.postimg.org/93rwd0qxr/FB_IMG_1447013685251.jpg

Found a good one:



(Translation: You should be ashamed!)

Special Circumstances

mickdw wrote: »

They would have to do abit better than that in the us.

I think an insulting offer like that might be worse than nothing at all. Especially if they do the usual "weren't ye lucky to have a VW at all, ye ungrateful ****es" style customer car in Europe.

Saw some nice cars today out here. Only 1 VAG and it was either petrol or the owner had removed any "Clean Diesel " badging. Nothing putt-putt-putting clouds of soot out of them on the roads here so far. Wait... I lie... an old corolla with a distinct blue tinge to the exhaust.

Special Circumstances

Remember VAGboys.... mix a hefty bit of diesel in with your oil for proper VWness. Not only will your "VW engineer approved" oil-diesel mix match your wolfsburg plate surrounds, german plates and neverbeen sticker, you'll also get better mileage and possibly meet emissions regs. What's the worst that could happen?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/08/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN0SX0CM20151108

Odyssey 2005

The emissions cheating has been going on much longer than I at least though. I have an 09 VAG car and have just received a letter from VW to tell me that my car is one of the effected ones. I feel like such a cheat and feel that money crossing my palm will be the only thing to alleviate my guilt . Seriously though,since 09 !!!!

breakemall

I read in the Irish Times that in the US "VW is offering owners of diesel-powered cars with 2.0-litre engines under investigation by the US Environmental Protection Agency, $500 on a prepaid Visa card, $500 in dealership credits and three years of free roadside assistance".

Wonder will the Irish motorists get similar goodwill????

2Mad2BeMad

a free pint of guinness will do me grand

duffman3833

i doubt we would, that means they would have to pay worldwide

BMJD

breakemall wrote: »

Wonder will the Irish motorists get similar goodwill????

lol

Atlantic Dawn

A €100 voucher for the local off licence would please most people.

Special Circumstances

BMJD wrote: »

lol

Lol indeed. I wonder will they also allow euro owners the extended warranties on DSG boxes that they were forced to give in US and China.

MetzgerMeister

In the US all the non-domestic car manufacturers have to bend over backwards for their customers due to the domestic manufacturers. BMW covered the replacement of the turbos in the 335i for both parts and labour so it cost the owner absolutely nothing. That was the case no matter whether the car was serviced by BMW from new or not. I didn't get 1 cent from them with mine and that's the same with every owner within Europe.

Cuddlesworth

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

In the US all the non-domestic car manufacturers have to bend over backwards for their customers due to the domestic manufacturers. BMW covered the replacement of the turbos in the 335i for both parts and labour so it cost the owner absolutely nothing. That was the case no matter whether the car was serviced by BMW from new or not. I didn't get 1 cent from them with mine and that's the same with every owner within Europe.

They also have the ability to do class action lawsuits. That plays a huge part in this.

oppenheimer1

Hachiko wrote: »

do you understand how diesels work? people doing low miles and buying diesels is the stupidest thing and mostly due to people being oblivious as to the real ownership cost of diesels.

Petrols are far more reliable and low maintenance than petrol, either over 10k miles a year or 40k miles a year. Diesels come into the equation when driven on high miles which in most peoples mind is above ~10k miles p/a.

Far too many people buy diesel to save a few hundred euro a year on tax which is downright sad.

mickdw wrote: »

Because granny will save a few hundred in fuel costs per year given the low mileage. That is the only upside. The downsides are very strong likelihood of egr and dpf problems that could easily cost 1 to 2k. In addition, the diesel is at its most polluting and least efficient when cold so lots of short journeys are the worst thing for it so realistically it will be more cost efficient and trouble free for granny to buy a petrol. Typically, a granny who will like a small car so it will probably do 40 mpg anyway in petrol form and will have equally cheap tax as any diesel.
granny is free to buy any car but listening to salesmen and opting for the diesel that he has in stock is the worst option.

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Because granny won't drive long distances to enable the dpf to regen. Granny is also likely to go through clutches which will probably mean dmf's too on the diesel. The tax around the same between petrol and diesel these days, especially on small cars like granny will be driving. Fuel economy won't be much different either on the small journeys.

You may say I don't understand how a diesel engine works, but I could equally say you don't understand the total cost of ownership of a car

There's a false belief on here that states that a diesel car is €3k more expensive than the petrol equivalent and that you have to be a high miler to get any value out of it. This is simply not true. The difference in cost is not simply the higher cost of the diesel engine over the petrol equivalent but the absolute value of depreciation over a number of years. As we were talking people who use their car as a local run around: The Toyota Yaris below:



Granted the figures are for the UK but I imagine the market is pretty similar in Ireland. The diesel loses £9971 over 4 years while the petrol loses £9076. The cost of ownership of the diesel over the petrol is only £895/€1250 over 4 years. It costs 180 to tax the diesel (99gCO2/km) PA and €200 for the petrol(119gCO2/km). An €80 saving over four years.

The diesel Yaris has a combined efficiency of 4.2l/100km and at today's diesel price of €1.15 and 20,000km/yr for 4 years gives a total fuel bill of €3864

Today's petrol price is €1.25. The petrol Yaris does 5.1km/100km so given the same annual distance travelled (20,000km/yr): the total fuel bill for the Yaris is €5100.

The total cost of ownership (excluding maintenance as both are under warranty for 3 of the 4 years)
For the Diesel:
Depreciation: €14,013
Tax: €720
Fuel: €3,864
Total: €18,597

For the Petrol
Depreciation: €12,752
Tax: €800
Fuel: €5100
Total: €18,652

So the diesel works out slightly cheaper for a Yaris owner from new the average driver, granted it isn't a whole lot though. However if the person buys a one year old Yaris the economics shift further towards the diesel as it has a steeper depreciation in the first year vs the petrol. Say the driver buys after year 1 and keeps to year 4 ie three years of ownership: The diesel only depreciates £4,129/€5,801 over that period vs £3,709/€5,211 a difference of just €590. After the difference in tax is taken into account the difference is just €530, the driver would have to do just over 11,391km/year for the diesel to make more economic sense than the petrol.

Deleted User wrote: »

Diesels are crap in town and city driving, my brother's A4 TDI hardly manages 35 mpg. Even with all it's stupid driving modes that ruin the driving experience and that horrid start stop. Jesus I'm glad I'm in an EV, even with it's limited range, just get in and drive no fiddling with stupid settings "oh better put it in this mode to save a few mpg" or "I want to drive a bit faster and want better throttle response" bla bla.

There might be no driving with stupid settings, but most people want their car to be able to travel at motorway speeds for longer than an hour and a quarter with the radio and heating off without having to stop for half an hour.

Toyotafanboi

so essentially, in that instance, over 5 years, they cost the exact same? seems realistic.

so then why buy diesel over petrol in that scenario, for example?

oppenheimer1

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

so essentially, in that instance, over 5 years, they cost the exact same? seems realistic.

so then why buy diesel over petrol in that scenario, for example?

Only in the instance of the brand new car as year one depreciation is much harder on the diesel in absolute terms. For a second hand car, which the majority of motorists drive, if you drive anything over half the average annual distance travelled it makes more economic sense to go for diesel.

I'm not here to extol the virtues of diesel, but it has been taking a bashing on this thread (even from EV owners ffs). People have been criticising diesel owners and considering them foolish for prioritising long term economy over a short term gain (highly unusual behaviour in the Irish context to be fair). Additionally the diesel market is far larger than the petrol one. It is unfair to criticise the individual for choosing what the market wants because the individual cannot change the market. They will buy what is easily sold.

MetzgerMeister

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They also have the ability to do class action lawsuits. That plays a huge part in this.

Now that you mention it, it was actually a class action lawsuit against BMW by one owner that led to each and every vehicle being covered.

Toyotafanboi

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Only in the instance of the brand new car as year one depreciation is much harder on the diesel in absolute terms. For a second hand car, which the majority of motorists drive, if you drive anything over half the average annual distance travelled it makes more economic sense to go for diesel.

I'm not here to extol the virtues of diesel, but it has been taking a bashing on this thread (even from EV owners ffs). People have been criticising diesel owners and considering them foolish for prioritising long term economy over a short term gain (highly unusual behaviour in the Irish context to be fair). Additionally the diesel market is far larger than the petrol one. It is unfair to criticise the individual for choosing what the market wants because the individual cannot change the market. They will buy what is easily sold.

personally, i wouldn't be making any suggestions of that regard.

once a person has looked at the maths and it works out cheaper, then that's the name of the game. i just find (as do most on here) that a lot of people think that diesel = cheap 100% of the time, which is simply not the case.

obviously, diesel has it's uses, but it must be given consideration.

oppenheimer1

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

personally, i wouldn't be making any suggestions of that regard.

once a person has looked at the maths and it works out cheaper, then that's the name of the game. i just find (as do most on here) that a lot of people think that diesel = cheap 100% of the time, which is simply not the case.

obviously, diesel has it's uses, but it must be given consideration.

No it isn't true 100% of the time, and particularly so if you are a drive below average kilometers and buy from new and don't hold onto the car for very long.

However, as my maths shows above, for the second hand driver of a relatively new car that does greater than half the average kilometers per year, then diesel is the obvious choice.

Older and cars with more kilometres on the odometer, then maintenance costs are of course a big issue and its a whole different ball game. The same would be true for petrol too.

Also the calculations are based on the NEDC BS fuel consumption figures.

That's the thing, you buy a 2nd had diesel, will cost you more and have much more mileage.

oppenheimer1

Deleted User wrote: »

Also the calculations are based on the NEDC BS fuel consumption figures.

Its a standard test, so while real world consumption will be higher, the relative ratio will remain the same for petrol vs diesel.

Anyway they are no more BS than EV stated range

oppenheimer1

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Its a standard test, so while real world consumption will be higher, the relative ratio will remain the same for petrol vs diesel.

Anyway they are no more BS than EV stated range

Suppose when you look at it like that,

EV range is based on the same stupid test.

colm_mcm

Deleted User wrote: »

That's the thing, you buy a 2nd had diesel, will cost you more and have much more mileage.

But I thought they were bought by old grannies for just going to the shops?

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

But I thought they were bought by old grannies for just going to the shops?

Lol I didn't say that. But I'm sure a lot do buy them to go to the shops.

If 2nd hand petrols are cheaper then wouldn't it make a lot more sense for people to buy them rather than the diesel ?

MetzgerMeister

Anyone see the article on the EPA's website about how electric vehicles account for 80% of yearly worldwide pollution due to the manufacturing stages?

oppenheimer1

Deleted User wrote: »

If 2nd hand petrols are cheaper then wouldn't it make a lot more sense for people to buy them rather than the diesel ?

The total cost of ownership for a petrol car is higher than diesel for anything above half the average annual kilometres in the 1-5 year age bracket.
Beyond that you have to price for risk, which is extremely difficult. Most people have a poor understanding of it and are hopelessly optimistic.

Diesels are also easier to sell as the market is larger. Its self perpetuating.

That's why diesel outsells petrol.