EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

vectra

VW shares are up 37pc in the last 30 days

http://www.independent.ie/business/world/as-vw-shares-rise-37pc-in-a-month-the-emissions-scandal-is-looking-overblown-34280716.html

dr.fuzzenstein

vectra wrote: »

VW shares are up 37pc in the last 30 days

http://www.independent.ie/business/world/as-vw-shares-rise-37pc-in-a-month-the-emissions-scandal-is-looking-overblown-34280716.html

That is such a pity for all the people on this thread who were hopping from one foot to the other in near childish glee at the upcoming demise of VW. It must be disappointing that thousands of people won't be made unemployed and billions of damage won't be done to the German economy. Of course that would have been so much better, because proving a point is obviously more important than everyone's economic survival.

cadaliac

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That is such a pity for all the people on this thread who were hopping from one foot to the other in near childish glee at the upcoming demise of VW. It must be disappointing that thousands of people won't be made unemployed and billions of damage won't be done to the German economy. Of course that would have been so much better, because proving a point is obviously more important than everyone's economic survival.

Rubbish.
Nobody was hopping from foot to foot in glee at the fact that VW could have been closed down - with the potential loss of jobs etc etc.
They were committing fraud. On a massive scale.
Do you think there should be a punishment or not? The answer couldn't be more obvious.
I for one hope they are punished for the crime they have committed.
Punished yes, closed no. Nobody really wanted them closed ffs.
It doesn't matter what company this happened to, as I am not brand loyal. I couldn't care one jot if it was Toyota, VW, Rolls Royce or Volvo.
The fact remains that they were using cheat software and falsifying test results which boosted sales. I personally think other car makers are at too. Either way, your assumption that people wanted VW to close is just that - an assumption.

vectra

cadaliac wrote: »

Rubbish.
Nobody was hopping from foot to foot in glee at the fact that VW could have been closed down - with the potential loss of jobs etc etc.
They were committing fraud. On a massive scale.
Do you think there should be a punishment or not? The answer couldn't be more obvious.
I for one hope they are punished for the crime they have committed.
Punished yes, closed no. Nobody really wanted them closed ffs.
It doesn't matter what company this happened to, as I am not brand loyal. I couldn't care one jot if it was Toyota, VW, Rolls Royce or Volvo.
The fact remains that they were using cheat software and falsifying test results which boosted sales. I personally think other car makers are at too. Either way, your assumption that people wanted VW to close is just that - an assumption.

Why do you want them punished?

cadaliac

vectra wrote: »

Why do you want them punished?

That's a good question actually. I had to think about it as I wasn't sure up to recently.
I want them punished because it is making a mockery of our emissions and taxation systems for motor cars - both here and across the pond.
If we all turned a blind eye - where would that leave us?
What is the point to emissions testing at all?
I believe that all car companies found to be cheating should b punished.
We (the buyer) were being lied to - do you really think that's Ok?

pippip

FFS for an article with a headline about share price they seem to have left all the information about VW shares out of the article!!!! :rolleyes:

Anyway for those who may be interested in the actual details of such a discussion this article from forbes is good.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2015/12/11/volkswagen-share-price-calm-for-now-but-serious-questions-remain/

Basically outlines that yes VW shares have stabilised for the moment they are still 16% off when the scandal hit and 44% off what they were back in Feb.
Good comparison to BP when in similar situation saying it took their shares 3 years to start performing correctly again after their scandal.

Also highlights the fact that VW still have alot of lawsuits pending and still haven't met important agreements with officials in the US.

Fiskar

Autogefugel have a great video on YouTube explaining the fix foe 1.2, 1.6 and the 2.0 litre engines. Not as bad as media would make out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2lAv7UaB1A&ab_channel=Autogef%C3%BChl

A security researcher at the CCC in Hamburg is currently doing a live talk about the ECU analisys that they have done.

Stream here

https://streaming.media.ccc.de/32c3/hall1/

Marcusm

vectra wrote: »

VW shares are up 37pc in the last 30 days

http://www.independent.ie/business/world/as-vw-shares-rise-37pc-in-a-month-the-emissions-scandal-is-looking-overblown-34280716.html

Indeed but still substantially down since the pre exposure high of €2.15 in July; currently €1.432 so that's down substantially. That being said, the free float of VOW is quite low; Porsche/Piech family has 34%, Qatar 16% and Lower Saxony 13%. This means that good/bad news is always amplified as a large part of the institutional shareholders of approx 27% will be index/passive funds which never buy/sell.

BoatMad

I think it's time to have a quiet guffaw at the doomsayers predicting the end of VW etc etc etc

colm_mcm

I have yet to see any of these cheap VWs either.

Special Circumstances

Even the Americans and the Japanese have come around to the whole nox thing. VAGs are selling like hot cakes, be amazing if they have any left for the EU market. Go team VAG!

vectra

Must actually get a pic of my local VW dealers car park tomorrow
It is jam packed with new cars waiting on registration.
Doesnt seem to have affected them in any way.

colm_mcm

Always demand for cats.

Long Time Lurker

BoatMad wrote: »

I think it's time to have a quiet guffaw at the doomsayers predicting the end of VW etc etc etc

Yeah seems we were wrong. They seemed to have gotten away with 20 billion euros to fix it, collapse of US sales along with the death of diesel sales altogether, axing of multiple new models from all brands under the VW umbrella, untold detrimental damage to then brand which has caused them to ditch their world tagline " das auto" and plant the seed of doubt in countless potential buyers and owners minds about the brand itself. Of course 0% finance and pre reg'd cars isn't discounting either.

Gotta away with that one alright (nobody mention the potential american legal actions)

BoatMad

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Yeah seems we were wrong. They seemed to have gotten away with 20 billion euros to fix it, collapse of US sales along with the death of diesel sales altogether, axing of multiple new models from all brands under the VW umbrella, untold detrimental damage to then brand which has caused them to ditch their world tagline " das auto" and plant the seed of doubt in countless potential buyers and owners minds about the brand itself. Of course 0% finance and pre reg'd cars isn't discounting either.

Gotta away with that one alright (nobody mention the potential american legal actions)

none of what you mention has occurred, why make up outright lies

Special Circumstances

BoatMad wrote: »

none of what you mention has occurred, why make up outright lies

There is more to the world than the car park of your local church or GAA ground...

None of what LTL has said has happened in America? ? You really are working for vw pr!

Long Time Lurker

BoatMad wrote: »

none of what you mention has occurred, why make up outright lies

I don't know! Just gonna give up. No point with this one.

BoatMad

Special Circumstances wrote: »

There is more to the world than the car park of your local church or GAA ground...

None of what LTL has said has happened in America? ? You really are working for vw pr!

OK, lets break it down

axing of multiple new models from all brands under the VW umbrella

links details ??

away with 20 billion euros to fix

since its not over yet , no ones knows, but show me realistic estimates of that number

collapse of US sales along with the death of diesel sales altogether,

no evidence of this at all especially in Europe

untold detrimental damage to then brand which has caused them to ditch their world tagline " das auto"

The company is on "an image offensive" that wants to project "new-found humility," and the eight-year-old tagline "Das Auto" is not the way to do it. At a meeting in Dresden attended by 2,000 Group managers to discuss the future of the brand, the new tagline also got an airing: it is simply the word, "Volkswagen."

so some rebranding - big deal

plant the seed of doubt in countless potential buyers and owners minds about the brand itself. Of course 0% finance and pre reg'd cars isn't discounting either

still buying shedloads of them, lots of companies offer 0% finance ,are they all failing as well listen why dont you play 20% more at your next car purchase just to be " nice"


I guffaw.

Long Time Lurker

BoatMad wrote: »

OK, lets break it down



links details ??



since its not over yet , no ones knows, but show me realistic estimates of that number



no evidence of this at all especially in Europe




The company is on "an image offensive" that wants to project "new-found humility," and the eight-year-old tagline "Das Auto" is not the way to do it. At a meeting in Dresden attended by 2,000 Group managers to discuss the future of the brand, the new tagline also got an airing: it is simply the word, "Volkswagen."

so some rebranding - big deal



still buying shedloads of them, lots of companies offer 0% finance ,are they all failing as well listen why dont you play 20% more at your next car purchase just to be " nice"


I guffaw.

I'm not going to argue this one with you because simply by the points you've made - i.e. requesting links to backup something that's been published and printed in every auto media outlet for months now regarding the axing of new models - shows you haven't researched this properly and all we're doing now is discussing your opinion and not that off fact. That's a waste of everyone's time. Just google it if you haven't bothered (and you clearly haven't) looking it up for yourself.

The defenders of the realm are more delusional than Holocaust deniers. It's not personal you know, at least its not supposed to be. Its just a stupid car company that's of no real relevance to our daily lives what so ever. (links to Holocaust deniers and a german car company are simply a metaphor)

BoatMad

The defenders of the realm are more delusional than Holocaust deniers. It's not personal you know, at least its not supposed to be. Its just a stupid car company that's of no real relevance to our daily lives what so ever. (links to Holocaust deniers and a german car company are simply a metaphor)

ive no ties with VW, but I utterly fail to understand the motives of people that seemed to want VW to fail or be damaged massively. why would you want to out 1000s of people out of work

VW did nothing , any other diesel company didn't do, except they got caught

pablo128

BoatMad wrote: »

ive no ties with VW, but I utterly fail to understand the motives of people that seemed to want VW to fail or be damaged massively. why would you want to out 1000s of people out of work

VW did nothing , any other diesel company didn't do, except they got caught

Which other manufacturer was selling 'clean' diesels in the US?

BoatMad

pablo128 wrote: »

Which other manufacturer was selling 'clean' diesels in the US?

the impact of diesel sales in the US on VW is tiny, a complete loss of that market would hardly register, its represents about 1% of its global sales

ps BMW is active in the US diesel market

Special Circumstances

I dunno LTL - he has you snookered on at least one point "I demand evidence that the collapse of US diesel VAG sales has occurred in europe"

Its kinda like saying there is no refugee crisis in Europe, because sure there isn't even a single Syrian refugee in texas.

mickdw

Any truth in reports of a case being brought by a number of vw owners in ireland?

BoatMad

mickdw wrote: »

Any truth in reports of a case being brought by a number of vw owners in ireland?

I cant see on what basis you could establish that you were due compensation, class actions cant be brought here either, each applicant must join the action

dr.fuzzenstein

BoatMad wrote: »

I cant see on what basis you could establish that you were due compensation, class actions cant be brought here either, each applicant must join the action

This is Ireland, there will always be a solicitor who smells a 1% chance of cashing in big and making a name for himself.

BoatMad

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

This is Ireland, there will always be a solicitor who smells a 1% chance of cashing in big and making a name for himself.

smells yes, consumes clients monies yes, wins for clients , err No,

dr.fuzzenstein

BoatMad wrote: »

smells yes, consumes clients monies yes, wins for clients , err No,

One can only hope so. These guys are so brazen they will sue nightclubs because someone fell over after 10 pints and will do so with a completely straight face whilst talking about neglicence and entitlement to compensation.

BoatMad

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

One can only hope so. These guys are so brazen they will sue nightclubs because someone fell over after 10 pints and will do so with a completely straight face whilst talking about neglicence and entitlement to compensation.

thats different, there is a clear case of damage , the issue is then to assign a proportion to the parties

in VWs cases there is no evidence of actual damage to the client

it would be like suing for falling in the toilet when you where never even near it