EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

Long Time Lurker

Lads I don't mean to point out the bleedin obvious but this thread has very little to do with petrol is better than diesel or vice versa

Special Circumstances

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Lads I don't mean to point out the bleedin obvious but this thread has very little to do with petrol is better than diesel or vice versa

It did last longer than most despite the best efforts of some to deflect/minimise/deny VW's cynical cheating.

dr.fuzzenstein

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Ah here, nobody with any sense would deny diesel has its applications (workhorse stuff, properly long distance stuff) but defending the "diesel sounds great! And it's so clean!" ??? Even VAG themselves can't manage that with a straight face anymore.

I don't have it because of the sound. And I actually like the drone on the move.
I have it because it return close enough to 50 mpg on cheaper fuel with good reliability (if you drive the right one) and because I service it myself, cheap running costs. It's nice and spacious and on the motorway run is very quiet and comfy. It's fast enough for me, or to put it another way, to get the same speed from a petrol, I certainly would pay way more tax and I certainly wouldn't see 50 mpg. To get something with approximately the same running costs, I would end up driving one of the millions of sh*tty petrols that have absolutely none of the great qualities so beloved of the people who keep telling me I shouldn't drive what I drive. Had a 1.4 petrol Polo for a while and it did nothing to convince me that petrols are so much better.

If this thread gets derailed it's because of assertions that all diesels are sh*te, that we are wrong to drive them, that diesel is over (if it is, petrol is not far behind) and so on. That's also OT from the original topic. Motors has been turned (by some) into an anti-diesel forum and every thread even vaguely related gets hijacked. i refer to my sig. We can do this all year long.

cadaliac

Soooo, any news on VW or their penalties in Europe? Is it just going to be a US big dollar law suit?

jimgoose

Special Circumstances wrote: »

...mmm, 50 seconds in, melifluous...

Goes to show - even a fairly refined 6-pot unit can be turned into a TVO 20 by an idiot with a computer. :pac:

Long Time Lurker

Can't see this affecting them at all at all ....

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/volkswagen-falls-to-fifth-in-new-car-market-in-ireland-for-2016-1.2493073

Atlantic Dawn

I suppose the real impact will be the 162 plate figures, people would have had 161 cars ordered before the emissions scandal broke.

bazz26

Could easily mean that cars ordered simply haven't arrived in the first 10 days of January. Anything ordered with extras takes longer to come from the factory. Would rather wait for the first few months of the year to pass judgement rather than first 10 days snap shot.

Leonard Hofstadter

bazz26 wrote: »

Could easily mean that cars ordered simply haven't arrived in the first 10 days of January. Anything ordered with extras takes longer to come from the factory. Would rather wait for the first few months of the year to pass judgement rather than first 10 days snap shot.

QFT. Let's wait till the end of the month before drawing any conclusions. Also, one of the reasons they could be down is if they don't have stuff in stock like Hyundai do, I read recently on this forum that if you wanted a Superb you'd be waiting up to 4 months for one whereas Hyundai could give you a Tucson tomorrow, I guess now that the recession is over more manufacturers will go back to the olden days and just order a load of stuff even if there weren't any confirmed buyers, knowing that all this stock wouldn't take too long to shift.

EndaHonesty

Lellostag wrote: »

No, I only said I don't like the sound of a diesel, but as usual plenty of people trying to put their own twist on things...

If you'd bothered do your reaearch properly you'd also found that I said I appreciate the relative economy and torque of diesels, but I still don't like the way they clatter and rattle.

Have you even heard a modern diesel?

I've a Skoda Octavia Vrs 184tdi and there's no clatter and rattle.

I've had to correct people when they've assumed it was petrol.

bazz26

captainspeed wrote: »

QFT. Let's wait till the end of the month before drawing any conclusions. Also, one of the reasons they could be down is if they don't have stuff in stock like Hyundai do, I read recently on this forum that if you wanted a Superb you'd be waiting up to 4 months for one whereas Hyundai could give you a Tucson tomorrow, I guess now that the recession is over more manufacturers will go back to the olden days and just order a load of stuff even if there weren't any confirmed buyers, knowing that all this stock wouldn't take too long to shift.

VW tend to have more factory options available than Hyundai too. Not taking anything away from Hyundai or the popularity of the new Tucson but the Tucson model line up is a lot simpler and smaller than your average VW.

RedorDead

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Can't see this affecting them at all at all ....

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/volkswagen-falls-to-fifth-in-new-car-market-in-ireland-for-2016-1.2493073

Meh - they were in 4th position after 10 days in january last year and finished the year as a comfortable first by almost 1000 units if i remember correct.

Its a marathon, not a sprint. Lets see where they are at the end of March.

Lellostag

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Have you even heard a modern diesel?
.

Yes.

EndaHonesty

Lellostag wrote: »

Yes.

Such as?

mickdw

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Such as?

Ah come on. If you had been talking about a nice 6 cylinder mercedes diesel or something like that, you might have an argument but your 4 cylinder tdi is a rough enough beast whatever way you cut it.
In fact I find the deadened hollow hum from stuff like recent 2.0 tdi A4 etc to be quite a sickening sound.
Yes they are reasonably quite in the cabin on the move but you can still feel vibration at times from pedals compared to petrol versions.

vectra

4 th place after 10 days last year with 7.6% of the market and finished on top even with the scandel
Now in 5th place after 10 days on 7.8% of the market with people knowing about the so called scandel.

EndaHonesty

mickdw wrote: »

Ah come on. If you had been talking about a nice 6 cylinder mercedes diesel or something like that, you might have an argument but your 4 cylinder tdi is a rough enough beast whatever way you cut it.
In fact I find the deadened hollow hum from stuff like recent 2.0 tdi A4 etc to be quite a sickening sound.
Yes they are reasonably quite in the cabin on the move but you can still feel vibration at times from pedals compared to petrol versions.

Listen to the EA288 series VAG engine and come back to me.

Special Circumstances

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Have you even heard a modern diesel?

I've a Skoda Octavia Vrs 184tdi and there's no clatter and rattle.

I've had to correct people when they've assumed it was petrol.

To recycle one of your favourite responses:
You keep repeating this. It's simply not true. It's bogus.
Stop making stuff up.
Lolz a refined 4 pot diesel, indistinguishable from a petrol on startup.

EndaHonesty

Special Circumstances wrote: »

To recycle one of your favourite responses:
You keep repeating this. It's simply not true. It's bogus.
Stop making stuff up.
Lolz a refined 4 pot diesel, indistinguishable from a petrol on startup.

Is English a foreign language to you?

Do you know what "repeating" means? I said it once.

Have you heard a 2.0 tdi 184 idling? There is no clatter or rattling. It's very refined.

After I got the car I was showing it to mates and several of them asked why I had gone for petrol this time?!

Am I saying it's "indistinguishable" from a petrol car? No.
I'm simply showing it's indistinguishable from old noisy diesels of a few years ago.

If you were walking behind it at a funeral you would not know it was a diesel

Special Circumstances

There's a rattle alright hahaha

Nonoperational

Fierce childish lads.

Special Circumstances

Nonoperational wrote: »

Fierce childish lads.

He started it Miss

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Does anyone else not give a ****e about how cars sound on start up?

Toyotafanboi

vectra wrote: »

4 th place after 10 days last year with 7.6% of the market and finished on top even with the scandel
Now in 5th place after 10 days on 7.8% of the market with people knowing about the so called scandel.

i don't know if standing still market share wise could be considered doing ok in a market that grew by over 25% in the space of a year. i'd say they were expecting much better, pre dieselgate anyway.

vectra

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i don't know if standing still market share wise could be considered doing ok in a market that grew by over 25% in the space of a year. i'd say they were expecting much better, pre dieselgate anyway.

As has already been said, End of year results are what they are interested in.
Where did the finish 2015?
It is not a sprint in the industry, it is more a marathon.

pippip

Renault stocks fall 20% as several of their offices are raided by anti fraud detectives last week over emissions.

http://news.sky.com/story/1622554/renault-offices-reportedly-raided-over-emissions

Lellostag

pippip wrote: »

Renault stocks fall 20% as several of their offices are raided by anti fraud detectives last week over emissions.

http://news.sky.com/story/1622554/renault-offices-reportedly-raided-over-emissions

Interesting, I had not heard about that before! Seems to be an awful lot of collateral damage from this scandal, will be fascinating (in a morbid fashion) to see where this all ends.

I wonder if there will be any changes to legislation and future emissions targets due to this debacle..?

Toyotafanboi

vectra wrote: »

As has already been said, End of year results are what they are interested in.
Where did the finish 2015?
It is not a sprint in the industry, it is more a marathon.

thanks for the industry insight but i was comparing like for like, last years ten day figures to this years which you posted. market = 26% bigger, VWs market share = the same, or 0.2% growth if we are being pedantic. I doubt VW H.Q. were popping champagne over that.

as you say, all we have to go on at this stage are this years ten day figures, the rest is just speculation but they came within a whisker of losing market share in a massively expanding market. why would that be, for a company that some on here would have us assume is absolutely prospering?

maybe there are other factors like slow production or supply or new model releases in the coming months that people are holding out for, honestly i don't know, but those figures are hardly anything to gloat about so far.

RedorDead

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

thanks for the industry insight but i was comparing like for like, last years ten day figures to this years which you posted. market = 26% bigger, VWs market share = the same, or 0.2% growth if we are being pedantic. I doubt VW H.Q. were popping champagne over that.

as you say, all we have to go on at this stage are this years ten day figures, the rest is just speculation but they came within a whisker of losing market share in a massively expanding market. why would that be, for a company that some on here would have us assume is absolutely prospering?

maybe there are other factors like slow production or supply or new model releases in the coming months that people are holding out for, honestly i don't know, but those figures are hardly anything to gloat about so far.

A 0.2% share increase is hard won. And to grow your share even in a rising market is tough. VW actually only had a 7.3% share after ten days last january so the 0.5% increase is even more impressive given all going on and the fact they have launched nothing new of significance in the last 6 months or so.

Market shares can slide despite sales increases. VW finished with 3216 last january for a 10.7% share. They might finish on say 3500 this january but if the overall market increases to 37734 for January (+26% on current run rate) their share will drop to 9.3% despite a sales increase.

So to be showing any % market share growth in this fast rising market is impressive!

I doubt they are gloating, but i also doubt its the doom and gloom and end of market leadership here that many are predicting or would like to see.

Toyotafanboi

RedorDead wrote: »

I doubt they are gloating, but i also doubt its the doom and gloom and end of market leadership here that many are predicting or would like to see.

i completely agree.

it's merely the attitude of some VW owners to suggest that one of the biggest scandals the automotive industry has ever seen has not been affecting sales is all i am trying to discuss and even at that, the implication that the sales figures (across a ten day period) in one of what is likely to be VW's smallest markets is any indication of how the company is or isn't doing on a global scale.

with figures that close, market share could easily have been lower than last years ten day figure and then VAG heads wouldn't be strolling in here suggesting that because the figures are ever so marginally up on last years that Dieselgate didn't happen and it was all figment of out imagination.