EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

Ogogo

According to beepbeep.ie there were 825 golfs sold in Ireland in February.

http://www.beepbeep.ie/stats/?sYear%5B%5D=2016&sYear%5B%5D=&sRegType=1&sMonth%5B%5D=1&sMonth%5B%5D=2&sMake%5B%5D=Volkswagen&sRange%5B%5D=GOLF&x=49&y=8

Special Circumstances

Thought it would be around that actually. The golf seems to be a bit of an anomaly in the states, or at least in San Francisco (which is an anomaly in its own way I suppose). The jetta sold 9 or 10k in Feb in the states.

Long Time Lurker

Ogogo wrote: »

According to beepbeep.ie there were 825 golfs sold in Ireland in February.

http://www.beepbeep.ie/stats/?sYear%5B%5D=2016&sYear%5B%5D=&sRegType=1&sMonth%5B%5D=1&sMonth%5B%5D=2&sMake%5B%5D=Volkswagen&sRange%5B%5D=GOLF&x=49&y=8

Registered, not necessary sold.

Ogogo

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Registered, not necessary sold.

Indeed... I suppose VW are the only ones who know the exact truth there. You think there will be a load of demo cars and rentals floating around?

two wheels good

Now we learn that Winterkorn was told about the deception more than a year before VW eventually admitted to it. Article here
But he didn't read the memo. Such bad luck. Oh wait! He was told again in Nov 2014 and it was still kept under wraps.

"[Volkswagen] admitted on Wednesday that its former CEO Martin Winterkorn was, in May 2014, sent a memo detailing how some VW cars were producing up to 35 times more nitrogen oxide emissions than allowed."
.....
"However, VW said Winterkorn was told again about the problem in November 2014. At that point he was told that fixing the problem in the US would cost about €20m (£14.2bn, $21.7m)."

Meanwhile, VW spent a year stonewalling the US investigators who were trying to resolve the discrepancies in emissions readings.

colm_mcm

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Registered, not necessary sold.

It's not like they won't sell them though. They're hardly going to hang on to them.
With the pcp deals and cheap spec upgrades, they've become much more appealing than they were a year ago.

Henry Ford III

colm_mcm wrote: »

It's not like they won't sell them though. They're hardly going to hang on to them.
With the pcp deals and cheap spec upgrades, they've become much more appealing than they were a year ago.

Totally through necessity though.

Long Time Lurker

colm_mcm wrote: »

It's not like they won't sell them though. They're hardly going to hang on to them.
With the pcp deals and cheap spec upgrades, they've become much more appealing than they were a year ago.

Why are you such an apologist for them.

But sure they won't or will be great if alls not forgotten like it never happened at all and sure everything's fine anyways and sure if its not sure it probably will be.

Honestly try and be objective.

colm_mcm

i think im objective. im far from a vw fanboy. I've never bought one. there are tonnes of 161 golfs locally. someone's buying them.
I've sold cars and know that distributors can put on pressure or incentives to put on pre regs or extra demos, but at the end id it no garage will build up a collection of cars they can't sell just to save face on registration figures.
it's not like when Louis Walsh bought 10000 Westlife singles just so they'd get to number 1. these are real cars that need to find homes. if the deal is right people will buy them.
it's no worse than hyundai buying market share by giving €4k scrappage.
you can bet some are prereg or demo, but theres nothing to suggest a significant number are.

yes this was a huge story, and it caused them damage, especially in the US. But in Europe it's not as dramatic. VW are PR masters, and consumers were temporarily scared by the hype in the media about unsaleability,massive annual tax increases and crashing used values (which never materialised). anyone I know looking at cars aren't letting the scandal rule out a VW as they may have done late last year.

Long Time Lurker

You keep talking about perception. Whats that got to do with facts. If I want drama I'll read the sun. On a purely factual basis this is a monumental industry scandal, a catastrophic financial burden and a massive brand embarrassment. That's before we mention the individuals involved, their responsibility for the calamity and ultimately where it has left them and the company today.

I know that the general public don't give a sh#t anymore because Pop Stars is back on or someone died in Coronation Street. For us motor enthusiasts though its huge. Do we not discuss motoring facts instead of what Eddie Punchclock thinks about it.

colm_mcm

It's the general public that buy cars though.
The share price of VW never interested me, nor did the grave-dancing that went on last year when this story broke. I was happy enough for VW to be brought down a peg or two, and to see dyed-in-the-wool VW fans consider that their beloved brand isn't whiter than white. I didn't want them to stop making cars though. Being a 'motor enthusiast' that's only natural.

If it turned out tomorrow that Opel, Nissan, Renault and Mazda had been doing the exact same as VW did, it would barely make the news, people just got caught up in the drama, fuelled by the outrage and panic in the US. A bit when the first leading athlete of a particular sport gets caught for doping.

Long Time Lurker

colm_mcm wrote: »

It's the general public that buy cars though.
The share price of VW never interested me, nor did the grave-dancing that went on last year when this story broke. I was happy enough for VW to be brought down a peg or two, and to see dyed-in-the-wool VW fans consider that their beloved brand isn't whiter than white. I didn't want them to stop making cars though. Being a 'motor enthusiast' that's only natural.

But again that's not what we're discussing. Its thee monumental corporate screw up of the era, its utterly corrupt and potentially permanently and irreversibly brand damaging. The fact that we might or might not like the brand or the cars is irrelevant. All - as you repeatedly say - is not fine.

colm_mcm

I think you're disappointed the drama has died down, and people are still buying them, would that be fair to say?

Toyotafanboi

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

But again that's not what we're discussing. Its thee monumental corporate screw up of the era, its utterly corrupt and potentially permanently and irreversibly brand damaging. The fact that we might or might not like the brand or the cars is irrelevant. All - as you repeatedly say - is not fine.

i think you're missing the point though.

VW buyers only care about one thing, the "prestige" that comes with the badge...

they aren't going to admit to themselves that the brand was tarnished, they will go on to buy another VW and that suits VW just fine. The company directors and the customer are both happy to let this fade into the background.

why should we care, when the customer and the company don't care?

Falcon L

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i think you're missing the point though.

VW buyers only care about one thing, the "prestige" that comes with the badge...

they aren't going to admit to themselves that the brand was tarnished, they will go on to buy another VW and that suits VW just fine. The company directors and the customer are both happy to let this fade into the background.

why should we care, when the customer and the company don't care?

What, we're kidding ourselves now that VW is a prestige brand?

Toyotafanboi

Falcon L wrote: »

What, we're kidding ourselves now that VW is a prestige brand?

me? no.

VW owners have been telling themselves that since at least the mid noughties and the dawn of the Golf Mk5 though, lets be honest.

robtri

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think you're disappointed the drama has died down, and people are still buying them, would that be fair to say?

well i for one am.....
While I would not like VW to go out of business, I think this is something that VW did this on purpose without regards for laws, health or the environment and I believe they should be held accountable and suffer consequences for this

cadaliac

robtri wrote: »

well i for one am.....
While I would not like VW to go out of business, I think this is something that VW did this on purpose without regards for laws, health or the environment and I believe they should be held accountable and suffer consequences for this

I'd have to agree here, but weren't other companies caught too? According to reports a few pages back...?
So who fines who and how much?
No car company will go out of business over this. The vw American market share will drop and they'll get big fines. That's about all I can see happening. The EU will follow suit and fine them a but too but remember what country in Europe holds all the cash....

josip

Horn gone.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35768912

Beep beep.

Coat...

jimgoose

Falcon L wrote: »

What, we're kidding ourselves now that VW is a prestige brand?

I don't know about that. I'm still in shock after hearing several years ago that the diesel Bora was the new Impreza WRX!

JohnBoy26

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

me? no.

VW owners have been telling themselves that since at least the mid noughties and the dawn of the Golf Mk5 though, lets be honest.

Since before the mk5 even. In the UK the love for the vw badge goes back years. In the 90's many buyers and motor journalist there snubbed the superior jap offering over the likes of the mk3 golf. There was a perception over there(probably still is) that VW's were unbreakable because of their "German engineering". This was despite the top ten in the JD power survey being dominated by Jap cars at the time.

pred racer

robtri wrote: »

well i for one am.....
While I would not like VW to go out of business, I think this is something that VW did this on purpose without regards for laws, health or the environment and I believe they should be held accountable and suffer consequences for this

+1

PaulKK

Falcon L wrote: »

What, we're kidding ourselves now that VW is a prestige brand?

A lot of ordinary car buyers would view them as a prestige car. They are generally more expensive than their rivals.

I wouldn't view a 110bhp Audi a4 as prestige either for example but I'd say a fair whack of the population would love one.

Falcon L

PaulKK wrote: »

A lot of ordinary car buyers would view them as a prestige car. They are generally more expensive than their rivals.

I wouldn't view a 110bhp Audi a4 as prestige either for example but I'd say a fair whack of the population would love one.

Ordinary car buyers buy ordinary cars, which VWs are. Just ordinary. The fact that they cost more is down to fine marketing more than fine engineering. Look at the reliability of VWs in recent years, not what I would expect from a prestige brand.

Audi and BMW are also just ordinary cars, albeit at the upper end of ordinary. Prestige cars like RR, Bentley, Porsche, etc convey an image that VW can only dream of. Dream on.

A prestige brand would never pull the stunt that VW did with the emissions manipulation. They know they would be finished if they did.

VAG may be the umbrella that covers some prestige brands, but VW isn't one of them.

PaulKK

Falcon L wrote: »

Ordinary car buyers buy ordinary cars, which VWs are. Just ordinary. The fact that they cost more is down to fine marketing more than fine engineering. Look at the reliability of VWs in recent years, not what I would expect from a prestige brand.

I said they are viewed as a premium brand. A majority of the population view them that way, regardless of what you think.

I didn't say I thought they were either.

I don't get why people trot the reliability thing out either, seriously, who cares? They are distinctly average for reliability if I recall correctly. Its usually the Toyota brigade that bring it up.

I don't have one by the way.

Falcon L

PaulKK wrote: »

I said they are viewed as a premium brand. A majority of the population view them that way, regardless of what you think.



I don't have one by the way.

Do they? I'd love to take your word for that, I'm sure there's a survey or something to back this up.

I'm sure most motorists care about the reliability of the car they drive. Do you not?

I'm definitely not one of the Toyota brigade.

I've had 4 VWs over the years. They never struck me as in any way prestige.

GustavoFring

Upper end of the bread and butter brands maybe, certainly not prestige.

PaulKK

Falcon L wrote: »

I'm sure most motorists care about the reliability of the car they drive. Do you not?

I've had 4 VWs over the years. They never struck me as in any way prestige.

Reliability is not the number one item on my list no.

Is a Ferrari reliable? A Bentley? Just because they are prestige car by your standard doesn't mean they are reliable either.The way some people go on about vw reliability you'd swear they are constantly falling apart though.

Prestige:
"widespread respect and admiration felt for someone or something on the basis of a perception of their achievements or quality."

VW's have a perception of quality in the general public. You may not think they are and I do not think they are anything special either. But they are top sellers because people think they are a quality car. You can say its marketing but isn't that the whole point of marketing?

Prestige is built on marketing.

mickdw

PaulKK wrote: »

Reliability is not the number one item on my list no.

Is a Ferrari reliable? A Bentley? Just because they are prestige car by your standard doesn't mean they are reliable either.The way some people go on about vw reliability you'd swear they are constantly falling apart though.

Prestige:
"widespread respect and admiration felt for someone or something on the basis of a perception of their achievements or quality."

VW's have a perception of quality in the general public. You may not think they are and I do not think they are anything special either. But they are top sellers because people think they are a quality car. You can say its marketing but isn't that the whole point of marketing?

Prestige is built on marketing.

To be honest, take a highline current generation passat with a proper engine and it's a very fine car than imo trumps everything in its class.

colm_mcm

Bosch is seen as a premium kitchen appliance by those that wouldn't dream of buying a proper premium brand. that's how I see vw.