EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

Special Circumstances

Only one sleeps to go for the big reveal:
https://transportevolved.com/2016/04/06/epa-time-is-running-out-for-vw-to-fix-dieselgate-cars-in-u-s-and-it-may-not-reach-a-deal-by-april-21-deadline/

Elon Musk is allegedly in favour of a rumoured plan that VW should be forced to build as many EVs as it would take to offset their dirty DERVs
https://transportevolved.com/2016/02/22/report-epa-to-force-volkswagen-to-build-electric-cars-in-u-s-as-penance-for-dieselgate-scandal/
Swap your Jetta/Passat/Cayenne for a Budd-E?

BoatMad

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

My cynical mind would suggest that the 4 year old point is significant. Why? Because manufacturers sell most of their cars to fleets. Fleets tend to keep cars for between 36-48 months maximum. Service intervals are set to suit fleet buyers bean counters.

in the US for example fleet sales make up about 20% of total sales ( Im sorry facts intrude on your arguments), in Europe this varies from about 50% in the UK, 40% in france to 15%-30% in germany , depending on what you classify as " fleet "


Hence service intervals are not over influenced by fleet sales

Let's just say a large multi national, with an international agreement with a particular manufacturer, wants 200 cars. The lease company buys at rock bottom price and often similar vehicles from different brands are near enough the same cost except say more premium brands i.e. Ford or Peugeot versus VW. The former will be cheaper to purchase but have a poorer residual. The VW will have a higher purchase cost but better residual. The lease company effectively charges you for the depreciation so the VW wins.

Anyway how would you gain a competitive advantage in this squeezed to the limit market place? Simple, servicing. If Model A needs servicing every 20k times 4 services over the lease term (at 200 quid per service just for the sake of demonstration) then that's 800 quid per car over its lifetime with the lease company. Now compare Model B with 30k service intervals at similar costs. That's 600 quid for the same term. 200 quid, big deal! Well not if you've 2000 of that model on your fleet its not.

What I'm sayin is that these so called extended intervals are quite possibly detrimental to the condition of any car long term but short-term they're not so significant and make their vehicles more cost competitive. Hence for post 4 years old they suggest you service it more often.

Maybe!

Service intervals are set as a combination of warranty cost, dealer incentive-isation , mechanical issues and marketing advantage.

Special Circumstances

BoatMad wrote: »

in the US for example fleet sales make up about 20% of total sales ( Im sorry facts intrude on your arguments), in Europe this varies from about 50% in the UK, 40% in france to 15%-30% in germany , depending on what you classify as " fleet "


Hence service intervals are not over influenced by fleet sales




Service intervals are set as a combination of warranty cost, dealer incentive-isation , mechanical issues and marketing advantage.

I'm sorry to intrude with facts, but Americans pronounce tom ah toe as toMAYtoe.


See what I did there. I tool a pretty irrelevant to how things work on this continent fact and made it sound like it contradicted your point.


The fact that VW account for a vanishingly small percentage of the US market fleet or non fleet is true. That the US market has practically zero influence on EU service intervals is probably true. Where you add these up and get "the EU fleet attractiveness of these cars couldn't possibly be influencing service intervals up to a certain age" eludes me tbh.

BoatMad

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I'm sorry to intrude with facts, but Americans pronounce tom ah toe as toMAYtoe.


See what I did there. I tool a pretty irrelevant to how things work on this continent fact and made it sound like it contradicted your point.


The fact that VW account for a vanishingly small percentage of the US market fleet or non fleet is true. That the US market has practically zero influence on EU service intervals is probably true. Where you add these up and get "the EU fleet attractiveness of these cars couldn't possibly be influencing service intervals up to a certain age" eludes me tbh.

Im sorry , " long_time_Lurker" claimed "My cynical mind would suggest that the 4 year old point is significant. Why? Because manufacturers sell most of their cars to fleets"

I have pointed out that this is not a true fact , manufactures do not sell most of their cars to fleets and therefore the subsequent point is not correct ( in the US or EU ) , i.e. that service intervals are set to assuage fleet buyers

josip

Whooa, pages are going all beta? on me and I'm being redirected to a 'b' version of the site.

Anyhows, Toyota's "best built cars in the world" slogan ruled has been ruled illegal
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0420/783069-toyota-asai/
Guess who filed the complaint?

It's like Norman Hunter complaining about an opponent's tackling

vectra

Stand aside Volkswagen

Mitsubishi want to join the party.

Mitsubishi Motors said it falsified fuel economy test data to make emissions levels look more favourable.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0420/783011-mitsubshi-tests/

Special Circumstances

BoatMad wrote: »

Im sorry , " long_time_Lurker" claimed "My cynical mind would suggest that the 4 year old point is significant. Why? Because manufacturers sell most of their cars to fleets"

I have pointed out that this is not a true fact , manufactures do not sell most of their cars to fleets and therefore the subsequent point is not correct ( in the US or EU ) , i.e. that service intervals are set to assuage fleet buyers

At what ratio of fleet v non-fleet would you say it was plausible that the service intervals were influenced by attractiveness to fleet customers?

I'm quite happy to interpret LTLs post as "A very significant portion of VWs sales are to fleet. It is quite plausible that service intervals are influenced by the fleet market, especially if they change after the normal fleet life span."

The "easter bunny isn't real, therefore easter isn't real, therefore jesus wasn't real" argument is entertaining though. Carry on with that if you prefer.

fancy pigeon

vectra wrote: »

Stand aside Volkswagen

Mitsubishi want to join the party.

Mitsubishi Motors said it falsified fuel economy test data to make emissions levels look more favourable.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0420/783011-mitsubshi-tests/

Sure doesn't some of the current range use VW engines anyway....?

Open to corrections on that!

Special Circumstances

fancy pigeon wrote: »

Sure doesn't some of the current range use VW engines anyway....?

Open to corrections on that!

Totes awks for vagboys.

Special Circumstances

OSI wrote: »

I can't imagine Nissan selling cars in Japan built by Mitsubishi with VW engines.

Why not, das clean diesel like?

Special Circumstances

OSI wrote: »

this:

Ah yeah but why would they not be using VW diesels in japan?

Green engines of the year 2009 and 2010 like ;-)

Special Circumstances

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Ah yeah but why would they not be using VW diesels in japan?

Green engines of the year 2009 and 2010 like ;-)

My mistake, it was green CAR of the year, not engine. And those titles were later rescinded for some reason.

Long Time Lurker

Nothing to see here .....

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0XH2CX?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter

Special Circumstances

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Nothing to see here .....

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0XH2CX?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter

Crushed or brought home to the fatherland?

South America or Russia maybe? Europe cant be the only place with very lax regulation of diesels.

fret_wimp2

http://www.engadget.com/2016/04/20/vw-emissions-settlement-leak/

if this is even true i wonder:
- will it apply to just VW's or all affected cars (Audi, skoda, seat etc)
-will it happen in Europe or just the US.

Marcusm

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Nothing to see here .....

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0XH2CX?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter

I suggested back in November that I thought it likely they'd offer to buyback the affected cars in the US. It's really the only exit in the US. I was ridiculed as scaremongering. I still expect this to be the ultimate resul in the US.

vectra

And just to throw a spanner in the works

Many of Volkswagen's latest Euro 6 diesel and petrol-engined cars have been given top ratings in new emissions tests that measure the levels of Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) being emitted during real-world driving conditions.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-stars-real-world-nox-emissions-tests

Special Circumstances

Marcusm wrote: »

I suggested back in November that I thought it likely they'd offer to buyback the affected cars in the US. It's really the only exit in the US. I was ridiculed as scaremongering. I still expect this to be the ultimate resul in the US.

Yeah there's precedent it. I guess the incredulity comes from Irish people who simultaneously believe in clean diesel and disabling every emissions control as soon as they can.

Special Circumstances

vectra wrote: »

And just to throw a spanner in the works

Many of Volkswagen's latest Euro 6 diesel and petrol-engined cars have been given top ratings in new emissions tests that measure the levels of Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) being emitted during real-world driving conditions.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-stars-real-world-nox-emissions-tests

Some of their engines meet the most lax regulations in the civilised world. For a brief period after manufacturer and before their socially ignorant owners start the process of disabling or removing all emissions controls, safe in the knowledge that it is implicitly condoned by the lack of real testing. Clean Diesel.

737max

Glad to see the issue is drawing to a close now.
I bought shares in VW when they dropped to around 100 and now I'm seeing the share price increasing up to around 127 so I'm happy enough.
I still don't own a VAG car and don't have any great desire to own one but that has nothing to do with the emissions issue.

BoatMad

Marcusm wrote: »

I suggested back in November that I thought it likely they'd offer to buyback the affected cars in the US. It's really the only exit in the US. I was ridiculed as scaremongering. I still expect this to be the ultimate resul in the US.

I lay claim to that assertion well before November !!!:p

Special Circumstances

I did enjoy the irony of this part of the judges findings:
"In addition to all these other matters, Volkswagen will be required to commit other funds to promote green automotive technology."

As punishment for selling "Clean Diesels" , VW will be required to promote ACTUAL clean cars. Meanwhile, das EU just continues to keep telling us nein nein nein, no problem here, das ist green ja.

Marcusm

BoatMad wrote: »

I lay claim to that assertion well before November !!!:p

I think you were one of the ones who described my suggestions as scaremongering! I see the provisions have been doubled to 15bn too.

Long Time Lurker

Blowing over nicely now.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/mercedes-opel-porsche-and-vw-recall-630000-diesel-powered-cars

Oh and VW have just posted a 1.3 billion euro loss.

gctest50

$5000 for USA customers that were deceived by VW into thinking they had bought "Clean Diesel"

VW USA customers awarded $5000 and buy back offers in light of emissions scandal, ministers insist UK customers must be offered the same

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/government-pressure-vw-uk-customer-compensation

Special Circumstances

So.... will the german taxpayer be footing the bill for clean diesel in the united states? IE Will it all be written off against tax in Germany and thus a reduction in funds for the german state?

Seth Brundle

VW pressed on 'compensation discrepancy' for UK customers amid emissions scandal

UK transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin has pressed Volkswagen on why it is offering compensation to customers affected by the diesel emissions scandal in the US but not the UK, a Downing Street spokeswoman said.

bazz26

Because there would be more chance of a successful US lawsuit than a UK one.

robtri

Isn't there a group of irish lads getting together as well to sue them here in Ireland...

Long Time Lurker

I'm being very immature now but I'm laughing my head off at those who came in here with a mocking tone towards the rest of us who had the temerity to suggest that this might be a major fcukin issue. I figured it was blindingly obvious. So did like minded folk. We're not hearing too many 'it'll all blow over' comments now. Yeah a little more humility next time fan boys.