EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

gctest50

grogi wrote: »

Even with years of experience in diesels and despite much lower exhaust temperature, the blades in variable geometry turbos often get stuck (usually in unfavourable position)... With petrols the exhaust runs is much hotter.

The first generation will be a disaster...

cos diesel exhaust is dirty

jimgoose

gctest50 wrote: »

cos diesel exhaust is dirty

Petrol exhaust will get dirty enough too, with the GDI setups that'll accompaany most of the turbochargers.

jimgoose

grogi wrote: »

Even with years of experience in diesels and despite much lower exhaust temperature, the blades in variable geometry turbos often get stuck (usually in unfavourable position)... With petrols the exhaust runs is much hotter.

The first generation will be a disaster...

Mmm. Maybe. I see they're using the Miller Cycle, though. Interesting

robtri

BoatMad wrote: »

EV car drivers are not polluting. This is a typical nonsense argument . No more then the pollution involved in creating diesel and petrol is outside the control of the petrol or diesel car driver , the pollution involved in creating electricity is outside the control of the EV driver.

What is within their control is the decision in what they drive and the direct pollution that mode of transport creates.


Leaving aside that the pollution involved in hydrocarbon production and consumption is a function of its technology , whereas electricity can and is generated in increasing non polluting forms ( see Norway )

the usual BS argument is right.... to produce the energy for EV cars is polluting in Ireland... rather heavily.....
slightly better than ICE, but get off stand that EV are clean....

R.O.R

gctest50 wrote: »

cos diesel exhaust is dirty

And modern petrol emissions are like angels tears, healing the earth.

Or rather, modern petrol exhaust emissions are worse for human health than modern diesel emissions, but that truth doesn't suit the diesel hater's agenda.

http://articles.sae.org/13624/

Frankie Lee

R.O.R wrote: »

And modern petrol emissions are like angels tears, healing the earth.

Or rather, modern petrol exhaust emissions are worse for human health than modern diesel emissions, but that truth doesn't suit the diesel hater's agenda.

http://articles.sae.org/13624/

True enough but making GPFs mandatory would solve that which they should be. Particulate matter is probably the most harmful thing imaginable for your lungs as the human body is completely incapable of filtering it and the damage done to lungs is meant to permanent iirc.

BoatMad

robtri wrote: »

the usual BS argument is right.... to produce the energy for EV cars is polluting in Ireland... rather heavily.....
slightly better than ICE, but get off stand that EV are clean....

A zero emission car is just that's, clean at the point of use , and that's the key issue with diesels , a massive buildup of pollutants in particular dense urban areas

Centralising power production both allows extensive use of emissions control systems and efficiency of generation

More importantly electricity can be be generated from low emissions sources , like wind and solar , Ireland already 10% from renewables , Norway 40 %

There is no comparison between EVs and diesels , EVs are completely clean at the point of use and that's all that matters in regard vehicular emissions

The future of private car transport is battery electric , faster , better acceleration , better driving environment etc.

The electric motor is simpler superior to any ICE , that's clear to anyone that has driven one , the lack of both airborne pollution and noise pollution is clear an added advantage

pablo128

BoatMad wrote: »

A zero emission car is just that's, clean at the point of use , and that's the key issue with diesels , a massive buildup of pollutants in particular dense urban areas

Centralising power production both allows extensive use of emissions control systems and efficiency of generation

More importantly electricity can be be generated from low emissions sources , like wind and solar , Ireland already 10% from renewables , Norway 40 %

There is no comparison between EVs and diesels , EVs are completely clean at the point of use and that's all that matters in regard vehicular emissions

The future of private car transport is battery electric , faster , better acceleration , better driving environment etc.

Diesels are as clean as EVs when both their motors are shut off.

Thats all that matters to me in regard to vehicular emissions.

If that sound ridiculous, well so does your 'point of use' comparison.

BoatMad

pablo128 wrote: »

Diesels are as clean as EVs when both their motors are shut off.

Thats all that matters to me in regard to vehicular emissions.

If that sound ridiculous, well so does your 'point of use' comparison.

You make no sense

The focus on diesel pollution, as opposed to co2 production , is the concern over build ups of NOX and other pollutants in dense urban environments.

Diesels are not " off " in that environment

EVs generate no emissions while moving around a urban area

That's all that matters to me

gctest50

Eric Cartman wrote: »

+1 , also at a 12.5:1 compression ratio with an aluminium block, I can see a lot of early HG failures.

Maybe they are just quoting it by measurements, it's a Miller Cycle engine so ~ 80% if they are

Nonoperational

The funny thing is that despite all the ranting about dirty diesels etc, car engines are cleaner than ever. Cancer rates are decreasing at a significant rate, air quality is better in most parts of the world. We're going the right way, and as as poor as the dishonesty at VW was, it will drive better cleaner engines going forward.

Frankie Lee

Nonoperational wrote: »

The funny thing is that despite all the ranting about dirty diesels etc, car engines are cleaner than ever. Cancer rates are decreasing at a significant rate, air quality is better in most parts of the world. We're going the right way, and as as poor as the dishonesty at VW was, it will drive better cleaner engines going forward.

Yet still big European cities are experiencing major smog problems with the number of diesel cars sold in the last decade being one of the main causes.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/23/paris-smog-pollution-emergency-measures-traffic

bmm

Nonoperational wrote: »

... Cancer rates are decreasing at a significant rate, air quality is better in most parts of the world...

You're just making stuff up now :rolleyes::rolleyes:

JohnBoy26

Nonoperational wrote: »

The funny thing is that despite all the ranting about dirty diesels etc, car engines are cleaner than ever. Cancer rates are decreasing at a significant rate, air quality is better in most parts of the world. We're going the right way, and as as poor as the dishonesty at VW was, it will drive better cleaner engines going forward.

Total bs

gctest50

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Total bs

nope the cancer death rate has dropped by 23% since 1991

FortySeven

gctest50 wrote: »

nope the cancer death rate has dropped by 23% since 1991

The cancer death rate is not the same as the cancer diagnosed rate.

Cancer is rife and getting much more common. Treatment has improved is all.

gctest50

1 in 2

JohnBoy26

gctest50 wrote: »

1 in 2

United states?

Leonard Hofstadter

gctest50 wrote: »

1 in 2

Ah the good ol' US of A. Where they sold a whopping 222 diesel cars in the entire country in January this year.

gctest50

captainspeed wrote: »

Ah the good ol' US of A. Where they sold a whopping 222 diesel cars in the entire country in January this year.

UK too

1 in 2 people born after 1960 in the UK will be diagnosed with some form of cancer during their lifetime

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/risk/lifetime-risk

gctest50

captainspeed wrote: »

Ah the good ol' US of A. Where they sold a whopping 222 diesel cars in the entire country in January this year.

Diesel exhaust classified as carcinogenic to humans

Lyon, France, June 12, 2012 ‐‐

After a week-long meeting of international experts, the International
Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), which is part of the World Health Organization (WHO),

today classified diesel engine exhaust as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1),

based on sufficient evidence that exposure is associated with an increased risk for lung cancer

josip

How would the quantities of particulates and NoX from diesel inhaled by people compare to those inhaled by active and passive smoking?

12Phase

gctest50 wrote: »

nope the cancer death rate has dropped by 23% since 1991

The rates have increased. The survival rates have improved a lot and that's exclusively down to improved biological and chemotherapy, better and more widely available scanning technology and very much more effective radiotherapy machines that can target far more accurately thanks to advances in computer power that allows modelling of treatment sites and avoids dosing healthy tissues as much as their predecessors.

There's been a reduction in lung and certain head and neck cancer where smoking has reduced. That's nothing to do with environmental changes to transport or air quality and entirely to do with a habit moving from socially acceptable to absolute faux pas.

Rates are definitely increasing though at least in part due to aging population and also possibly because of better detection too. I suspect a lot of old age cancers weren't spotted in the past and you died of something else while it was still asymptomatic.

There are increases in certain cancers though and they're probably connected to diet, lifestyle and exposure to certain chemicals.

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/02/04/why-are-cancer-rates-increasing/

Interestingly the countries with the highest rates are also often the most developed. Ireland's very high on that list but so is Denmark etc

EndaHonesty

gctest50 wrote: »

Diesel exhaust classified as carcinogenic to humans

Bacon is classed as a Group 1 Carcinogen by WHO too...

gctest50

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Bacon is classed as a Group 1 Carcinogen by WHO too...

Need to smoke more

The Diesel Exhaust in Miners Study (DEMS) was designed to evaluate the risk of death associated with diesel exhaust exposure, particularly as it may relate to lung cancer.

Among low and moderate smokers, the risk of lung cancer increased with increasing diesel exposure.

In contrast, among miners who were heavy smokers (two or more packs per day) the risk of lung cancer death for those with the highest levels of exposure to diesel exhaust was attenuated.

Their risk remained elevated but tapered off with increasing levels of exposure.
The researchers offered a number of possible explanations for the tapering off of risk at high levels of diesel exhaust exposure.

First, it is possible that smokers are more likely to clear diesel exhaust particulate matter from their lungs than non-smokers. This phenomenon has been reported among coal miners who are heavy smokers.

Second, carcinogens in diesel exhaust and cigarette smoke may operate in the same metabolic pathway in the body. If so, they may compete with each other, resulting in a saturation of the pathway, thus diminishing the effects of either component.

Nonoperational

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Total bs

I should have said death rates, however, we are living longer and we now have far better imaging and invasive tests to diagnose cancer than we did in the past. I'm sure there were far more deaths in the past where we didn't know what the cause of death was and it was probably an occult malignancy.

JohnBoy26

Nonoperational wrote: »

I should have said death rates, however, we are living longer and we now have far better imaging and invasive tests to diagnose cancer than we did in the past. I'm sure there were far more deaths in the past where we didn't know what the cause of death was and it was probably an occult malignancy.

Only for some cancers. You'll find that the worst forms of cancer are still very difficult to detect and in most cases prove fatal.

Nonoperational

Very difficult to screen for yes. Detect no.

Special Circumstances

"Volkswagen and several other automakers who do business in Europe recently funded a report proving that diesel and biodiesel vehicles are more important to reducing emissions than electric cars. "

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1103689_volkswagen-and-others-not-so-excited-about-electric-cars-resist-ev-friendly-regs-in-europe


How late are they going to be to the EV party? As late as they were to the CR diesel party?

Astonishingly, the regulations mentioned in that article are still in terms of emphasising lower CO2 with no mention of nox or particulates.


Das Diesel - it was clean, it is clean, it will always be clean. Lol.

BoatMad

Special Circumstances wrote: »

"Volkswagen and several other automakers who do business in Europe recently funded a report proving that diesel and biodiesel vehicles are more important to reducing emissions than electric cars. "

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1103689_volkswagen-and-others-not-so-excited-about-electric-cars-resist-ev-friendly-regs-in-europe


How late are they going to be to the EV party? As late as they were to the CR diesel party?

Astonishingly, the regulations mentioned in that article are still in terms of emphasising lower CO2 with no mention of nox or particulates.



Das Diesel - it was clean, it is clean, it will always be clean. Lol.

rather like the cigarette industry funding " science " and endless reports that told us smoking didntg cause cancer LOL

I think we mighty be a little wiser, just a little this time to VW