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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

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    #2252
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    http://www.eveningecho.ie/national-news/four-irish-towns-and-cities-breaching-who-air-pollution-safety-levels/2107529/

    WHO’s latest data shows that Longford breached the safe limit set for PM10, at 22 micrograms per cubic metre (µg/m3). Bray was found to have PM10 levels of 20µg/m3.

    Longford, Bray, Galway and Dublin breached the safe levels for another measure known as PM2.5, with Longford the worst offender at 15µg/m3.

    As ever, I think this is a quote (not from the article above) worth pasting when talking about Das Clean Diesel:
    The Green Party’s transport spokesman Ciarán Cuffe said, “The SEI report shows that green policies do work. As a direct result of changes made by Environment Minister John Gormley to car tax and VRT, consumers have modified their behaviour and turned to fuel-efficient cars.”

    Is it safe to say there isn't a functional DPF in all of Longford, or is there something else at play here?


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    #2253
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Longford PM10 figure seems to be "inferred" rather than measured. PM2.5 is measured.

    Full data here:
    http://www.who.int/phe/health_topics/outdoorair/databases/cities/en/


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    #2254
    Long Time Lurker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Long Time Lurker


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    Longford PM10 figure seems to be "inferred" rather than measured. PM2.5 is measured.

    Full data here:
    http://www.who.int/phe/health_topics/outdoorair/databases/cities/en/

    Where bouts?


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    #2255
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Long Time Lurker wrote: »
    Where bouts?

    Wat?


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    #2256
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,934 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Long Time Lurker wrote: »
    Where bouts?

    Click on the "database by country and city" over to the right to download it as an XLS.

    Very interesting to look around the world and order according to best/worst.
    I'd be suspicious of the reliability of some of the more extreme good results and bear in mind the data is over 2 years old.


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    #2257
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    josip wrote: »

    Very interesting to look around the world and order according to best/worst.
    I'd be suspicious of the reliability of some of the more extreme good results and bear in mind the data is over 2 years old.
    I didn't have time to read the methods. But yeah... Longford on par with London suggests something other than traffic is the issue there?? Is there some fossil fuel powerplant or incinerator nearby??

    Pity no NOX results included. Or that most hideous of substances, C O 2, lol.


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    #2258
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    My guess for Longford would be peeps burning stuff on fireplaces. Other guess Irish Rails clean diesels.


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    #2259
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    samih wrote: »
    My guess for Longford would be peeps burning stuff on fireplaces.

    In that case limerick would be off the scale if they had a monitoring station!


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    #2260
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    could it be misery they're detecting?


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    #2261
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    could it be misery they're detecting?

    Could be! General air of Negativity attracting particles...


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    #2262
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,934 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Assuming they only have a single point of measuring the particulate counts could be affected by proximity to traffic.

    http://www.dustmonitor.com/Articles/Concentration_gradient_patterns_of_aerosol_particles_near.pdf


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    #2263
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    areas not reporting PM10 were estimated based on a weighted country PM10/PM2,5 average, so the PM10 are not necessarily actually measured


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    #2264
    Long Time Lurker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Long Time Lurker


    And another .....

    http://m.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0516/788654-norway/


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    #2265
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Long Time Lurker wrote: »
    And another .....

    http://m.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0516/788654-norway/

    Luckily for VW the case may be heard in Germany, where you get the price of the bus home and a kick in the hole if you are rammed from behind in a traffic accident. So they are looking at only a few hundred quid damages here by that reckoning.


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    #2266
    12Phase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭12Phase


    The country towns tend to have an issue because they're using smokey coal. It's only recently been banned. It's nothing to do with cars.

    Dublin and Cork have had bans for years with the other cities a bit more recently but the air quality in larger country towns is still often horrific.

    I always find it weird that Irish people will get all up in arms about things completely unproven to have any link to cancer; power lines and mobile phone masts. However, they'll get all nostalgic about burning smokey solid fuels which are producing so much pollution that's small towns actually fail air quality standards.

    Doesn't really show a lot of intelligence or a very scientific approach to anything tbh.


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    #2267
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    Luckily for VW the case may be heard in Germany, where you get the price of the bus home and a kick in the hole if you are rammed from behind in a traffic accident. So they are looking at only a few hundred quid damages here by that reckoning.

    Better than the system we have here. A:"Ouch my neck hurts a bit". B:"Jesus, here, have €15k! Don't worry, this is magic money that comes out of thin air and nobody will possibly be worse off because of, hey, why is my insurance gone up 50%?! Let's protest against evil insurance companies ripping us off!"
    Or getting €40k for a scuffed knee, the list goes on. The difference is, in Germany I can buy a 1990's 6 cylinder, 2.5 liter petrol (of which you would approve ;) ) Beemer, ring any insurance and they will say, within 5 minutes, "ok, I have put all your details into my computer, yes, you can have third party on that for €500, would you like me to put that through right away?", rather than laughing down the phone at me, before making a farting noise and dropping the receiver.
    There are countries where damages are awarded to, well, you know, actual damages, rather than figures pooped out by flying unicorns in cloud cuckoo land.
    The Irish have a real talent for screwing each other over and not considering that in the end, they're only screwing themselves. And then jump up and down screaming "WHY IS EVERYTHING SO EXPENSIVE?! I demand answers!"


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    #2268
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Wouldn't you rather see people get an appropriate amount rather than insisting that this fairytale 600 euro is the actual total cost of soft tissue injury to the back or neck?what's the going rate for an mri?

    Chill out man, sun is shining in limerick. Grab an ice cream and enjoy doc!
    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    The Irish have a real talent for screwing each other over and not considering that in the end, they're only screwing themselves.
    Here we didn't try to convince anyone that diesel was clean.

    Well okay, the pseudo science party did but shur we need never worry about them getting power again !


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    #2269
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    Wouldn't you rather see people get an appropriate amount rather than insisting that this fairytale 600 euro is the actual total cost of soft tissue injury to the back or neck?what's the going rate for an mri?

    Chill out man, sun is shining in limerick. Grab an ice cream and enjoy doc!


    Here we didn't try to convince anyone that diesel was clean.

    Well okay, the pseudo science party did but shur we need never worry about them getting power again !

    €15-20k is not an appropriate amount. Neither is €40k for a grazed knee. Anyone who would suggest otherwise has been getting a bit too much sun I would suspect. Awards in this country are not appropriate, and it is being exploited by people to the hilt and you and me are paying for this. If you are happy paying a minimum of €1000 (tendency rising) for insurance on a bog-standard car (nothing over 4 cylinders, 2 liters, no more than 10 years old, no modifications of any kind), fine, OK, if paying way over the odds makes you happy, I wish you twice the joy in the future.
    And yes, about time for a bit of decent weather.


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    #2270
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    €15-20k is not an appropriate amount. Neither is €40k for a grazed knee. Anyone who would suggest otherwise has been getting a bit too much sun I would suspect. Awards in this country are not appropriate, and it is being exploited by people to the hilt and you and me are paying for this. If you are happy paying a minimum of €1000 (tendency rising) for insurance on a bog-standard car (nothing over 4 cylinders, 2 liters, no more than 10 years old, no modifications of any kind), fine, OK, if paying way over the odds makes you happy, I wish you twice the joy in the future.
    And yes, about time for a bit of decent weather.

    We're going off topic. But if you're implying that I think the current figures are appropriate.. then no. I've never said that.

    If you honestly think that nice cars would be cheap to insure in Ireland if we resolved the current state of affairs, if we all had black boxes and rang them before everyone journey to ask for advance permission... lol they will always find a way to screw people.


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    #2271
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    We're going off topic. But if you're implying that I think the current figures are appropriate.. then no. I've never said that.

    If you honestly think that nice cars would be cheap to insure in Ireland if we resolved the current state of affairs, if we all had black boxes and rang them before everyone journey to ask for advance permission... lol they will always find a way to screw people.

    Fair enough, back to dieselbashing...:P


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    #2272
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    12Phase wrote: »
    However, they'll get all nostalgic about burning smokey solid fuels which are producing so much pollution that's small towns actually fail air quality standards.

    Doesn't really show a lot of intelligence or a very scientific approach to anything tbh.

    To be fair, the whole clean diesel thing isn't very scientific either. At least they were being consistent. Whatever about the pseudo science, the boolean logic of smokey coal is impeccable
    "if diesel is clean; then smokey coal is clean" and vice versa.

    What will they do next to improve air quality - another Gormley-style levy on petrol :pac: :(


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    #2273
    reklamos
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    It seems we all be using petrol/diesel for a while as EVs are too expensive.
    ADAC experts recognized unprofitable electric cars


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    #2274
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    reklamos wrote: »
    It seems we all be using petrol/diesel for a while as EVs are too expensive.
    ADAC experts recognized unprofitable electric cars
    In a country where petrol is far cheaper...
    http://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2016/05/one-in-seven-new-bmws-sold-in-the-us-is-a-electric-vehicle/


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    #2275
    EndaHonesty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭EndaHonesty


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    In a country where petrol is far cheaper...
    http://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2016/05/one-in-seven-new-bmws-sold-in-the-us-is-a-electric-vehicle/

    Are you agreeing with the ADAC report, or disagreeing with it? :confused:


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    #2276
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,934 ✭✭✭✭josip


    reklamos wrote: »
    It seems we all be using petrol/diesel for a while as EVs are too expensive.
    ADAC experts recognized unprofitable electric cars

    Hard it was article the read or just was me?


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    #2277
    stesaurus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭stesaurus


    reklamos wrote: »
    It seems we all be using petrol/diesel for a while as EVs are too expensive.
    ADAC experts recognized unprofitable electric cars

    No real data given that shows how they calculated any of their price per km. Comparing a Focus to a Model S. Higher maintenance costs mentioned but that's just plain wrong. Maintenance is a lot lower overall, less wear and tear, larger service intervals, less moving parts to replace etc etc.
    It reads like a 12 year old wrote it


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    #2278
    reklamos
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    Here is an original report in German with more data.
    Kostenvergleich: Wenige E-Autos rentabel


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    #2279
    EndaHonesty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭EndaHonesty


    s.welstead wrote: »
    No real data given that shows how they calculated any of their price per km. Comparing a Focus to a Model S. Higher maintenance costs mentioned but that's just plain wrong. Maintenance is a lot lower overall, less wear and tear, larger service intervals, less moving parts to replace etc etc.
    It reads like a 12 year old wrote it

    They have not compared a Ford Focus to a Tesla Model S :rolleyes:

    https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/Wie%20rentable%20sind%20Elektroautos_260771.pdf


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    #2280
    stesaurus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭stesaurus


    EndaHonesty wrote: »
    They have not compared a Ford Focus to a Tesla Model S :rolleyes:

    https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/Wie%20rentable%20sind%20Elektroautos_260771.pdf

    Really?
    If kilometer on the electric Ford Focus costs about 56.6 cents, the owner of the petrol car pays 51 cents, and diesel – 51.4 cents per kilometer. Anyone who rides on the popular Tesla Model S, have to pay even more – 1.37 euros per kilometer.


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    #2281
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    EndaHonesty wrote: »
    Are you agreeing with the ADAC report, or disagreeing with it? :confused:

    Pick one and run with it, going on your posting history you don't mind as long as you get to disagree with someone! :confused:


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