Apartment car park - commercial vehicles

cloudrory

Hi all,

Myself and my girlfriend have been living in a block of 8 apartments since December 2014. She is a paramedic and works for a private ambulance service.
They provide her with an ambulance to do her job, and without it her ability to work for the company would be severely limited. She parks it in the apartment car park.

Each apartment in the block is assigned a parking space and there is also extra spaces for visitors but mostly people with 2 cars use them. I don't drive myself but she has a car also so she uses 2 spaces.

A few days ago she got a call from the estate agent saying that he got a letter from the building management stating that commercial vehicles are no longer allowed in the car park so she would have to move the ambulance. There was no notice period. She told him she needs the ambulance to do her job and without it she would work she wouldn't be able to pay rent. He said there was nothing he could do.

So we are 9 months into our 12 month lease and we would like to leave, I have looked at our lease today and there is mention of car park rules or even anything to do with house rules or building management.

I'd love if someone could tell me if the landlord/estate agent are able to enforce this? Or are they breaching the lease? And if we ignore it can they evict us? If we leave early because of this can we expect our deposit back?

I do understand their request, the ambulance is a large vehicle, but it does fit in the parking spaces. Its just that there's not even an attempt to compromise or any notice on their part.

Thanks for any advice

antoinolachtnai

It depends on the master lease and the lease but this kind of condition is not uncommon.therecould also be a planning condition forbidding it. I cannot see how using a visitor parking space in an apartment block, to store what is at the end of the day a commercial vehicle could be sustainable. I would ask for a few weeks leeway.

cloudrory

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It depends on the master lease and the lease but this kind of condition is not uncommon.therecould also be a planning condition forbidding it. I cannot see how using a visitor parking space in an apartment block, to store what is at the end of the day a commercial vehicle could be sustainable. I would ask for a few weeks leeway.

Thanks for replying.
Well there is enough visitor spots for everyone. Theres nearly always a spot free. But the estate agent knew she was gonna be parking the ambulance there when we moved in.
And as I said there is not one mention of it in our lease or we didn't receive any information on house rules or any indication that this would be a problem at the start of our tenancy.
We will be moving out anyways I just don't want to lose the deposit.

athtrasna

It's certainly in the master lease in our development and the development rules, as already indicated it is a condition of the planning permission for this development.

A visitor space is designed to be exactly that, regardless of whether they are free or not, they are not for long term use by residents. Commercial vehicles are probably the easiest to begin to clamp down on as they are easily identifiable but I would suspect that this crackdown will eventually extend to residents abusing the visitor parking spaces.

Regarding your deposit, you are legally entitled to seek to reassign your lease. If you can find suitable tenants then your deposit should be returned.

ted1

athtrasna wrote: »

It's certainly in the master lease in our development and the development rules, as already indicated it is a condition of the planning permission for this development.

A visitor space is designed to be exactly that, regardless of whether they are free or not, they are not for long term use by residents. Commercial vehicles are probably the easiest to begin to clamp down on as they are easily identifiable but I would suspect that this crackdown will eventually extend to residents abusing the visitor parking spaces.

Regarding your deposit, you are legally entitled to seek to reassign your lease. If you can find suitable tenants then your deposit should be returned.

An ambulance isn't a commercial vehicle. Check the tax on it.
However a visitor space is a visitor space and is not a second vehicle space.

This sort of nonsense would hurt your head. Where do they expert residents who have a commercial vehicle for work to park it. They shouldn't be allowed put such crazy rules in place. It's a major deal for someone who uses one for work and it's totally unfair on them.

athtrasna

Jeffery Deafening Firehouse wrote: »

This sort of nonsense would hurt your head. Where do they expert residents who have a commercial vehicle for work to park it. They shouldn't be allowed put such crazy rules in place. It's a major deal for someone who uses one for work and it's totally unfair on them.

It's part of the planning permission, and it's easily avoided. Live somewhere else!! Nobody forces anyone to live in any particular development

endacl

She has a car too? Why not just drive to her ambulance? What's the big deal?

jlm29

endacl wrote: »

She has a car too? Why not just drive to her ambulance? What's the big deal?

Maybe in an emergency there isn't time for that kind of thing? Especially if traffic etc could be an issue. Are commercial vehicles allowed in the assigned spaces, or is just prohibited in the visitor spaces? Anyway she could leave her car parked at work or something when she has the ambulance at home?

endacl

jlm29 wrote: »

Maybe in an emergency there isn't time for that kind of thing? Especially if traffic etc could be an issue. Are commercial vehicles allowed in the assigned spaces, or is just prohibited in the visitor spaces? Anyway she could leave her car parked at work or something when she has the ambulance at home?

People don't bring emergency ambulances home. I'm guessing its a service-user transport vehicle?

cloudrory

It isn't an emergency ambulance. Its a private service although over half their custom comes from the HSE anyways.
She has the ambulance at home because the base is an hour and a half drive from us. They do calls all around the country so the company prefers to just have some employees with their own ambulance so the employee doesn't have to drive to the base everyday.
In other words her hours would be severely reduced if she wasn't able to keep the ambulance at home.

athtrasna wrote: »

It's part of the planning permission, and it's easily avoided. Live somewhere else!! Nobody forces anyone to live in any particular development

Of course nobody is forcing us to live there hence why we want to move now. My problem is that the estate agent knew both of us work and that she is a paramedic who keeps her ambulance at home. If this was going to be a problem at the start of our tenancy we would have just looked for somewhere else instead of entering into a lease for a year.
But now the rules are changed without any notice and we still have 3 months left in our lease.

In other words we either stay here and struggle to pay the rent or we move and lose our deposit. Its a lose/lose situation so on the contrary we are being forced to leave not stay.

antoinolachtnai

Rent a parking space nearby?

endacl

endacl wrote: »

She has a car too? Why not just drive to her ambulance? What's the big deal?

Burning her own fuel then.

I'd ignore them and continue parking there.

You need to clarify the basis of the decision. I think, though they have presented it as a commercial vehicle issue, its really about parking in the visitor car space. This is a perpetually contentious issue in apartment blocks. Other residents who cant find a space for their one car get upset when they see somebody else using two spaces.
Do they have any objection to her parking the ambulance in her own designated space? Many people have company cars and vans which are commercial vehicles but not readily identifiable as such.
As she needs the ambulance every day, I would park the ambulance in the designated space and find somewhere else to park her personal car, leaving the visitor spot available.
I doubt they will try to enforce a prohibition on you parking the vehicle in your own designated spot. Such a policy could have repercussions with other residents and tenants.

ted1

athtrasna wrote: »

It's part of the planning permission, and it's easily avoided. Live somewhere else!! Nobody forces anyone to live in any particular development

Its not part of the planning permission.

athtrasna

ted1 wrote: »

Its not part of the planning permission.

How do you know that? Have you got the permission for the development? It was a common clause in the permission granted for apartment developments built in the last 15 years so is highly likely to apply here. Just because something hasn't been implemented in the past doesn't mean it can be ignored.

athtrasna

athtrasna wrote: »

How do you know that? Have you got the permission for the development? It was a common clause in the permission granted for apartment developments built in the last 15 years so is highly likely to apply here. Just because something hasn't been implemented in the past doesn't mean it can be ignored.

Is there a reason why they put this in the planning, it's a bit bizzare to stop people who have a van for work parking it where they live. There might be merit if it was a ban on things bigger than one car space but if it's only one space it's appears to be beyond stupid alienating people in this way.

Paulw

Jeffery Deafening Firehouse wrote: »

Is their a reason why they put this in the planning

Ask your local council. The council are the ones who stipulate planning requirements, and this is normally one. The planning for our development states no commercial vehicles, that parking is for personal vehicles only.

And in this case, the ambulance is a commercial vehicle, so is not permitted to park there.

The options are simple - find somewhere else to live (depending on your clauses to break your lease), or park the ambulance elsewhere. In the mean time though, you must park the ambulance elsewhere.

Paulw

Paulw wrote: »

Ask your local council. The council are the ones who stipulate planning requirements, and this is normally one. The planning for our development states no commercial vehicles, that parking is for personal vehicles only.

And in this case, the ambulance is a commercial vehicle, so is not permitted to park there.

The options are simple - find somewhere else to live (depending on your clauses to break your lease), or park the ambulance elsewhere. In the mean time though, you must park the ambulance elsewhere.

You don't know that this is a planning thing in this instance.

Personally I'd ignore the threats and keep parking it in the complex.

Lots of people use commercials for private use also, it's a stupid unenforceable rule that I would have no heed in.

I can see a provision in the planning to prevent apartments being used for commercial purposes ie running a business from them rather than living there, but this does not apply in this case.

If there actually was a provision prohibiting the parking of commercial vehicles or company cars I think it would be unenforceable.

If two residents owned the same vehicle, one as private and the other designated as commercial, do you mean that one could not use his designated space? It wouldn't stand up..

Paulw

Jeffery Deafening Firehouse wrote: »

You don't know that this is a planning thing in this instance.

Personally I'd ignore the threats and keep parking it in the complex.

I never stated that this development had that planning clauses, just that it is a common clause, so a logical assumption.

I don't know for sure, no more than you know that they can continue to park there. They could then be liable for the landlord to bring in a notice of eviction for breach of the development rules.

Paulw

Deleted User wrote: »

If there actually was a provision prohibiting the parking of commercial vehicles or company cars I think it would be unenforceable.

If two residents owned the same vehicle, one as private and the other designated as commercial, do you mean that one could not use his designated space? It wouldn't stand up..

A vehicle is either private or commercial. It's not the use of the vehicle, but rather the classification and tax.

The development could enforce the clause by clamping commercial vehicles, they could remove access for the vehicle to parking (if it were gated, etc), or could serve notice to the owner that they are in breach of contract.

April 73

Ask to see the letter that the management company sent to your estate agent. You need to see if they are proposing penalties if commercial vehicles continue to be parked there or not.
If penalties are not mentioned & it's merely a wish that commercial vehicles are no longer parked there I would be tempted to tell the estate agent that you will leave at the end of your lease & continue to park the ambulance in the designated spot. Park the car somewhere else.
As there are only 8 apartments, I strongly suspect one or two owners have brought this issue up as they don't like the look of the ambulance or other commercial vehicles.

athtrasna

Jeffery Deafening Firehouse wrote: »

Is there a reason why they put this in the planning, it's a bit bizzare to stop people who have a van for work parking it where they live. There might be merit if it was a ban on things bigger than one car space but if it's only one space it's appears to be beyond stupid alienating people in this way.

I don't know whether it's cosmetic (like the ban on satellite dishes on the front of dwellings) or health and safety wise.

In the case of my development it's definitely in the planning permission and it's health and safety/practical. The parking spaces are close together and car length, a van or the like would overhang and dangerously obscure visibility. If the spaces were bigger the road through the development would be too narrow, the developer would have needed more land.

athtrasna

athtrasna wrote: »

In the case of my development it's definitely in the planning permission and it's health and safety/practical. The parking spaces are close together and car length, a van or the like would overhang and dangerously obscure visibility.

This might make sense if it was related to the size of the vehicle but doesn't stand up based on the commercial/non commercial categorisation.
According to the OPs management committee I could park my giant Hummer but somebody else couldn't park their little Vespa which they use for deliveries. Thats not Health and Safety.

pillphil

athtrasna wrote: »

I don't know whether it's cosmetic (like the ban on satellite dishes on the front of dwellings) or health and safety wise.

In the case of my development it's definitely in the planning permission and it's health and safety/practical. The parking spaces are close together and car length, a van or the like would overhang and dangerously obscure visibility. If the spaces were bigger the road through the development would be too narrow, the developer would have needed more land.

That's interesting, is it just an outright ban on large vehicles in your case?

seamus

There can be health and safety issues in relation to commercials and what they may be carrying. We had one guy parking a huge chipper van in our estate, which in reality is a massive fire hazard.
But it's very messy to stipulate the types of commercial vehicles that can and cannot be parked in a residential estate, much easier instead to just prohibit parking of commercial vehicles.

My understanding of typical planning regs is that "commercial" vehicles usually means goods vehicles, trucks or busses. So a large Transit would be prohibited but a taxi isn't.

An ambulance is an interesting one. Like others have said, the primary objection in this case is probably the constant use of visitor parking by a resident.

SpaceSasqwatch

jlm29 wrote: »

Maybe in an emergency there isn't time for that kind of thing?

the normal ambulance service would cover that situation.

Either way if it isnt taxed as a commercial vehicle(legally) she can park it in her parking place.

As someone said above , the visitors spaces are to be used by visitors not as a 2nd parking space .

athtrasna

The other issue is weight. Our car part is cobblelock and if we regularly had heavy vehicles it would ruin it. The bin trucks once a week are bad enough.

We also have a rule that all vehicles must fit fully into a space so the hummer thing wouldn't happen

ted1

athtrasna wrote: »

How do you know that? Have you got the permission for the development? It was a common clause in the permission granted for apartment developments built in the last 15 years so is highly likely to apply here. Just because something hasn't been implemented in the past doesn't mean it can be ignored.

You stated that it was included in the planing permission, how do you know it is, can you provide a link to it or to any planning that states no commercial vehicles. Might you be thinking of a ban on 3ton+ vehicles.
Back up your earlier statement

ted1

Paulw wrote: »

Ask your local council. The council are the ones who stipulate planning requirements, and this is normally one. The planning for our development states no commercial vehicles, that parking is for personal vehicles only.

And in this case, the ambulance is a commercial vehicle, so is not permitted to park there.

The options are simple - find somewhere else to live (depending on your clauses to break your lease), or park the ambulance elsewhere. In the mean time though, you must park the ambulance elsewhere.

An ambulance isn't a commercial vehicle, like wise a transit van that is taxed privately is not a commercial vehicle.