Android Tap and Pay in Ireland [Threads Merged]

Lucas Hood

Worked everywhere for me so far. Couple of coffee shops even paying for parking in Stephens Green.

GreenFolder2

I was expecting more Luddites tbh ... Pleasantly surprised.

I just like the fact it's not exposing my debit card details to everything I tap. I feel a lot more comfortable using this than my "raw" debit card. Especially on things like parking machines that could be fairly secluded and unattended.

Anything that substantially reduced the risk of my current account being emptied by skimmers is great!

Alun

Cerdito wrote: »

3. Tried it in Aldi, finally worked. Paid an €80 bill with contactless. Although my phone was unlocked it made me swipe my pattern to approve it.

That's good to know. I was in Aldi just now and had a bill of €40 or so but paid with the card instead as it was really busy and didn't want to cause a hold-up if it didn't work for whatever reason. I'll give it a try next time i f it's a bit quieter.

Strange that you had to swipe your security code again though. Had you unlocked you phone manually, or was it unlocked by being paired with a watch or other device?

paddyref

Just wondering can I set my up debit card on a second phone that my wife uses.

Cianos

Out of the loop on this - can Android pay be used on regular tap to pay card terminals in shops?

Edit: Any idea when Ulster bank will be onboard?

GreenFolder2

Cianos wrote: »

Out of the loop on this - can Android pay be used on regular tap to pay card terminals in shops?

Yes it works on the vast majority of terminals that accept contactless. However, in some cases it may be treated exactly like contactless and limit payment to €30

In other cases where it's fully implemented it will let you authorise a full payment with your phone using a fingerprint, phone pin or lock pattern.

Cerdito

Alun wrote: »

That's good to know. I was in Aldi just now and had a bill of €40 or so but paid with the card instead as it was really busy and didn't want to cause a hold-up if it didn't work for whatever reason. I'll give it a try next time i f it's a bit quieter.

Strange that you had to swipe your security code again though. Had you unlocked you phone manually, or was it unlocked by being paired with a watch or other device?

Phone was fully unlocked. When I tapped, it opened the Android pay app, then presented me with the pattern swipe to approve. I have a Samsung J5 2016.

GreenFolder2

AFAIK any transaction that normally requires a pin (over 30 €) will need an unlock code or fingerprint to work.

kave2

Tried it twice today, in pharmacy and Spar. Worked very well. People were very curious about it. Guy in Spar said he is going to swap bank for it :-)

SmartinMartin

Used it in tesco yesterday successfully. Tried to use it in an applegreen subway today and it said card not supported.

Alun

Used it in Woodies yesterday, their terminal was even displaying an ad for Android Pay when I went to use it!

LeeroyJ.

Works almost everywhere, I advise to not try it in pubs though, I got a few very angry responses from Barkeepers in various pubs saying I'm trying to scam the machine or whatever. Will leave it for a while and try it in pubs again once it becomes better known sometime next year.

GreenFolder2

The banks need to educate the retailers, as falsely accusing someone of fraud in a crowded pub, amongst their peers is a bit like accusing someone of shoplifting in public.

If you're wrong, they've a potential case against you in Irish law for damage to good name.

If in doubt just decline the transaction saying you don't accept that form of payment - don't make unfounded accusations.

wheresmybeaver

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

The banks need to educate the retailers, as falsely accusing someone of fraud in a crowded pub, amongst their peers is a bit like accusing someone of shoplifting in public.

If you're wrong, they've a potential case against you in Irish law for damage to good name.

If in doubt just decline the transaction saying you don't accept that form of payment - don't make unfounded accusations.

Any business that has a card machine (merchant services) is required to be PCI compliant. They can suffer extra charges and fines if they're found not to be compliant (sometimes through inspections but mostly through online questionnaires) so I would imagine there's going to be quite an increase in penalties over the next few months. It will eventually filter down to staff that Android pay is a thing, particularly if the owners are out of pocket. I think it's the payments over 30 euro aspect of it that will take the longest to sink in.

On a side note there's still a surprising number of pubs in Cork that don't even offer card payment. They must not like the paper trail!

boobycharlton

The pubs are sensible and don't want queues forming. Nothing worse than being stuck behind a card payer in a busy pub.

This android pay faffing about would be even worse. Was behind an overbearing, arrogant lad trying to use it in McDonald's on Grafton Street last night, pretty sure he was using it wrong, but he still berated the young lad working behind the counter anyway.

GreenFolder2

It's very very very fast. I've found it faster than plastic card type contactless, likely because the NFC on a mobile is much more sophisticated than a tiny cheap chip in a card.

wheresmybeaver

boobycharlton wrote: »

The pubs are sensible and don't want queues forming. Nothing worse than being stuck behind a card payer in a busy pub.

This android pay faffing about would be even worse. Was behind an overbearing, arrogant lad trying to use it in McDonald's on Grafton Street last night, pretty sure he was using it wrong, but he still berated the young lad working behind the counter anyway.

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

It's very very very fast. I've found it faster than plastic card type contactless, likely because the NFC on a mobile is much more sophisticated than a tiny cheap chip in a card.

Contactless payment in a pub is way faster as long as the pub has their card terminal and till setup right. This thing of keeping the card terminal on a back shelf in the corner, bringing it over and back again and then walking back again with the receipt is ludicrous. There are still a fair few terminals out there that are of the dial up nature and not connected via wifi or gprs and are desperate slow. I would agree that in a pub those setups are worse than cash and a complete pain in the arse and I would rather pay cash.

But the scenario where you've just paid for a round and the card terminal is right there in front of you, so you just tap it, is superior. All you're waiting for is the receipt to print. Pubs keep the till and the cash well back from the bar counter for theft reasons. But a durable card reader can be kept right up on the bar.

I might be in the minority with this but I actually think you're better off going out for the night with a card (if you can) rather than cash. Unless you're particularly good at holding on to receipts how can you be sure how much you've spent and where over the course of the night? Half the time I'm wondering if maybe I was robbed, got the wrong change back, or just lost a twenty somewhere along the way. But if you're paying by card then you have a complete record of everything (and you don't have 2kg of coin in your pockets).

GreenFolder2

Well, it's not the customers' fault that the pubs are not capable of getting their house in order when it comes to running card terminals.

If you've a busy bar, you need several card terminals connected by IP and mounted on little brackets above the counter so they don't get pulled away or splashed with beer.

It's not rocket science but, it's surprising that in this day and age they're still not sorting it out. People expect to be able to pay by card, and it's far safer for the bar to not have vast quantities of cash in the safe at 2 in the morning.

Cash handling also is not free of charge, people just forget it costs money.

Pubs think nothing about spending money on sound systems, till systems, fancy lighting, expensive refits of bars. It wouldn't be THAT big a deal to ensure you can easily take contactless payments.

Also, a lot of the time they seem to be supplied with credit card setups that are suitable for restaurants where they're bringing the card reader to tables. That's not appropriate for a pub. They should be mounted firmly on the bar and not likely to land in a puddle of beer.

I suppose though it's the same brigade who get upset about someone suggesting that a packet of crisps is not a food menu.

The other group I find unbelievable is hospital consultants and doctors. I don't know how many times I've turned up at a doctor to discover that they've no ability to take cards, yet present you with a €150 fee to pay and start looking for cheques and cash and the nearest ATM is miles away.

...And Justice

I got it to work in topaz, but it wouldn't work in aldi, do you need the android app open or can you jus hold the phone over the card machine?

Alun

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

If you've a busy bar, you need several card terminals connected by IP and mounted on little brackets above the counter so they don't get pulled away or splashed with beer.

They have those in Wetherspoons, very handy.

Alun

...And Justice wrote: »

I got it to work in topaz, but it wouldn't work in aldi, do you need the android app open or can you jus hold the phone over the card machine?

The app doesn't need to be open, but the phone does need to be awake, i.e. just tap the on button to light the screen up.

I've used it in Aldi for an under €30 transaction, no bother.

GreenFolder2

Alun wrote: »

They have those in Wetherspoons, very handy.

Maybe more will follow. it makes too much sense not to

TheChizler

Used it in ALDI for > €40. Took a little persistence and reassuring the cashier that it would work and it did on the second tap.

Does anyone know the exact situation with using secondary cards? What's worked for me so far is opening the app and tapping on my secondary KBC card for instance, then touching the terminal it takes payment from that card.

However today I wanted to use my default AIB card and just woke the phone keeping it locked, and tapped the terminal. Payment was taken from my KBC card. Double checked and the AIB card was definitely set as the default.

polaris68

Used it today in Dunnes Stores to pay for €18 of groceries. Worked pretty quickly at the terminal however the transaction is listed in the app as an €18 payment, not to Dunnes, but to a nearby pub. The till receipt looks like any other Dunnes receipt.

There is an option in the app to report problems with transactions and one of these is "Report incorrect shop info" which I did.

Anyone else encounter this?

j_mo

polaris68 wrote:

There is an option in the app to report problems with transactions and one of these is "Report incorrect shop info" which I did.

polaris68 wrote:

Anyone else encounter this?

I used it in my local aldi and saw on the map of the receipt that I was somewhere in Germany. I used it in two other locations and everything was fine.

Zagato

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

The other group I find unbelievable is hospital consultants and doctors. I don't know how many times I've turned up at a doctor to discover that they've no ability to take cards, yet present you with a €150 fee to pay and start looking for cheques and cash and the nearest ATM is miles away.

The arrival of Zettle would make a big difference for small traders. I know you won't see hospital consultants as small traders, but in terms of money taken in via card for consultation fees.

polaris68

j_mo wrote: »

I used it in my local aldi and saw on the map of the receipt that I was somewhere in Germany. I used it in two other locations and everything was fine.

Ok, I guess the app uses the phone's location, which can obviously be inaccurate inside a building, rather than info from the terminal.

loyatemu

Zagato wrote: »

The arrival of Zettle would make a big difference for small traders. I know you won't see hospital consultants as small traders, but in terms of money taken in via card for consultation fees.

Looks similar to Sumup, which is already available here.

Consultants have no real incentive to offer card payments until the banks phase out cheques. Personally I haven't had a chequebook for years, but most people seem to still have one in drawer for paying the likes of consultants and tradesman (though the latter often accept bank transfers or cards nowadays).

I've been at a couple of Xmas markets recently and even the stall traders accept card payments.

Alun

polaris68 wrote: »

Ok, I guess the app uses the phone's location, which can obviously be inaccurate inside a building, rather than info from the terminal.

I've got two transactions that are close-ish but not accurate, and one that's quite some distance away from the correct location. However if you double tap on the small map in the app it opens up Google Maps and appears to use the address information of the retailer to show the correct location, matching the place marker for that business on Google Maps.

The funny thing is though that I'm sure the incorrect one was correct at the time of payment and has since changed, but I can't be 100% sure.

Lucas Hood

I can take card payments through my phone. Can even use the cards nfc chip to pull the info onto the phone.

Retailers need to adapt.

Alun

TheChizler wrote: »

However today I wanted to use my default AIB card and just woke the phone keeping it locked, and tapped the terminal. Payment was taken from my KBC card. Double checked and the AIB card was definitely set as the default.

Did the app keep the secondary card in the foreground or return to the home screen after the transaction? I'm guessing it didn't, and that you'd need to manually return to the home screen to make it use the default card again. If so, I'm not sure if that's a bug or a 'feature'

Alun

loyatemu wrote: »

Consultants have no real incentive to offer card payments until the banks phase out cheques. Personally I haven't had a chequebook for years, but most people seem to still have one in drawer for paying the likes of consultants and tradesman (though the latter often accept bank transfers or cards nowadays).

I thought there was a plan to phase them out soon? Good riddance I say.

TheChizler

Alun wrote: »

Did the app keep the secondary card in the foreground or return to the home screen after the transaction? I'm guessing it didn't, and that you'd need to manually return to the home screen to make it use the default card again. If so, I'm not sure if that's a bug or a 'feature'

Don't know to be honest. Never opened the app manually until afterwards. Tapped, secondary KBC card popped up and the Android robot waved its hat at me, when I opened the app later on it looked as it normally does, with the default card taking up most of the space and the other cards stacked underneath.

Alun

OK, two experiences today ...

First tried to pay for a €45 transaction in Tesco at the self service checkout. The till beeped at me and said something like "Contactless card offered too soon, go back to payment screen and select payment type", did that but the contactless option was greyed out. I tried just manually selecting credit/debit card as the payment type, but same story. Paid by card in the end.

Next I paid for a sub €30 transaction in Lidl. At first I thought it hadn't worked, but when I woke my screen up again the app itself was asking for my PIN, entered it and presented the phone again and it worked. I presume this was in the same way that you're limited to a certain number of contactless payments in a row with your card before you have to insert your card and enter your PIN.

NikoTopps

Used it today for a small shop in Aldi ~€50 and it worked fine. Already had my phone unlocked and before I even had my phone touching off the terminal it asked for my fingerprint and I got a *Beep!*

I always keep my card to hand anyway in case something doesn't work but the more I use it the more confident I feel about leaving my wallet at home. Though in an ideal world I'd need my work ID and Leap Card in Pay before I could do that!

Anyone else finding it super quick like that? Don't know if it's just the OnePlus 3 have a strong NFC chip or what but I barely hold it near the terminal and it goes through, even through my thick case.

listermint

boobycharlton wrote: »

The pubs are sensible and don't want queues forming. Nothing worse than being stuck behind a card payer in a busy pub.

This android pay faffing about would be even worse. Was behind an overbearing, arrogant lad trying to use it in McDonald's on Grafton Street last night, pretty sure he was using it wrong, but he still berated the young lad working behind the counter anyway.

Contactless is the fastest form of payment, It will beat someone holding a fifty everytime unless the machine is broken or the phone is up the customers arse.

GreenFolder2

First misunderstanding about Android Pay. Went to go pay in Maxol for some coffees and the guy basically pushed my phone away from the terminal and said NO PHONES BUD!!! CARDS ONLY !!

Unlikely to be shopping there again.

Paid by chip and pin instead.

Unsure if the machine didn't support contactless or what was going on.

AIB, KBC and Google need to get the information out to retailers to avoid embarrassment like this.

Yggr of Asgard

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

First misunderstanding about Android Pay. Went to go pay in Maxol for some coffees and the guy basically pushed my phone away from the terminal and said NO PHONES BUD!!! CARDS ONLY !!.

The moment he touched my phone I would have walked out (if I only got coffee's not if I filled my tank).

I would complain to their head office.

listermint

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

The moment he touched my phone I would have walked out (if I only got coffee's not if I filled my tank).

I would complain to their head office.

Yep, very simple if this happens contact their head office or in the case of pubs the VFI they need to educate their members to this and the benefits of the service. Ignorance is not an excuse its pretty high profile adds from the banks especially AIB, its everywhere.

dulpit

Forgot my wallet today, but had my phone so no worries. Major benefit of Android Pay right there...

Cianos

Any ideas on when Ulster Bank will be onboard with this?

I know that Ulster Bank in the UK have it

GreenFolder2

listermint wrote: »

Yep, very simple if this happens contact their head office or in the case of pubs the VFI they need to educate their members to this and the benefits of the service. Ignorance is not an excuse its pretty high profile adds from the banks especially AIB, its everywhere.

It took a while to get through to some retailers - we still have places imposing arbitrary limits on cards around the place.

One of the most embarrassing ones is several high profile tourist sites operated by the state itself have a history of limiting credit cards to transactions above €10 and in one case I even saw €20.

If your fees are that high, get a new bank or card acquirer. There are options and it's absolutely ridiculous to bring bus loads of tourists in and then basically refuse to take payments by card and having no on-site ATM or any alternative.

A few places really need to get themselves into the reality of 2016 (or 1986) when if comes to cards. I can't understand why it's such a big issue for some businesses. The assumption made by US and other tourists is that it's a reluctance to register transactions to avoid paying tax.

I also have read several reports by financial institutions blaming unique cultural factors on low card usage here - the culture is down to a history of sky high fees on transactions and on merchant accounts. People really need to shop around both on the consumer and merchant side of things. There are better deals.

Also we have an on going issue in Ireland with cash thefts, heists in rural areas where people have large volumes of cash from businesses and also cash in transit thefts.

How much pain, suffering, fear, funding of criminal organisations, deaths, waste of Garda time would be reduced if most of our transactions were electronic ?!

I visited rural Iceland recently and I didn't even see cash most of the time I was there. Absolutely everything was being paid on cards - debit, credit and also anonymous reloadable e purse integrated into the normal chip and pin network (card just inserted without a pin or tapped).

Advantage is that rural businesses don't need to accumulate cash on site and there no trips to night safes or hoarding cash in safes in garages and pubs.

The technology is here. We have as good or in many cases better tech rolled out than many madkets and have it installed for years and there is really no excuse.

There is absolutely no difference in availability of tech and particularly in mobile connectivity between rural Ireland and Iceland. They actually have far more of a challenge than we do, due their absolutely tiny population and more extreme conditions in off the beaten track areas. Yet, they have card acceptance even in the tiniest, most remote place and consider it something that helps rural dwellers as they don't have to get go banks.

Things like having a VPN connected card terminal in the vast majority of retail outlets either running over their internet connection or just a card reader sitting on 3G /4G isn't exactly challenging! You're talking about miniscule amounts of data compared to what most of us do on our mobiles all the time.

The notion that places are still using modem dial up card terminals in 2016 is frankly something the banks should be embarrassed about. There likely won't even be much of a PSTN in a few years. It's already dying out in Ireland, extremely rapidly. In fact, it's often the card terminal that keeps small shops stuck with a phone line!

Anyway probably not the place for such a rant but Irish retailers, state services, policy makers and the banks need to drag themselves out of the 1970s!

MrVestek

Cianos wrote: »

Any ideas on when Ulster Bank will be onboard with this?

I know that Ulster Bank in the UK have it

Yeah it'd be handy alright.

GreenFolder2

MrVestek wrote: »

Yeah it'd be handy alright.

Could be a while. Ulster Bank supports Apple Pay too in Northern Ireland but not in the Republic.

At least AIB and KBC launching Android Pay is going to have to wake the others out of their slumber.

I would say PTSB and Ulster Bank will have to get their products ready to go. It's not that hard to rollout.

AIB is huge though so it should have a big impact. AFAIK they're by far the largest issuer if Visa branded cards in Ireland.

Having all the banks on board and also having Apple Pay live will see these services gaining rapid and wide acceptance.

I think in this case having both the major services up and running from Google and Apple benefits the market. I wouldn't like to see a Google or Apple monopoly on this.

flexcon

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

Could be a while. Ulster Bank supports Apple Pay too in Northern Ireland but not in the Republic.

At least AIB and KBC launching Android Pay is going to have to wake the others out of their slumber.

I would say PTSB and Ulster Bank will have to get their products ready to go. It's not that hard to rollout.

AIB is huge though so it should have a big impact. AFAIK they're by far the largest issuer if Visa branded cards in Ireland.

Having all the banks on board and also having Apple Pay live will see these services gaining rapid and wide acceptance.

I think in this case having both the major services up and running from Google and Apple benefits the market. I wouldn't like to see a Google or Apple monopoly on this.

ApplePay hasn't launched with any partners in Ireland yet!!

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

LeeroyJ.

Is anyone able to addd Android Pay to Uber? They are part of the supported apps and the first one advertised for the irish launch but I can't seem to find how to add it. Only Credit card and Paypal.

Alun

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

Is anyone able to addd Android Pay to Uber? They are part of the supported apps and the first one advertised for the irish launch but I can't seem to find how to add it. Only Credit card and Paypal.

It's integrated into the apps I think, rather than having to add it manually. On the web page there's a footnote saying it's only on the latest version of the app, have you checked for an upgrade?

GreenFolder2

flexcon wrote: »

ApplePay hasn't launched with any partners in Ireland yet!!

Yup but, when it does it will drive acceptance of both Android and Apple Pay. The key is to have a volume of handsets capable of making payments. Having both live and the other banks set up will mean it'll take off.

I'm OS agnostic here. Having both means consumers have choices and that's good and drives innovation.

Alun

In Woodies, the terminals there have been displaying ApplePay symbols on the screens for several months now.