1.4 tsi - 122 bhp

jca

obi604 wrote: »

OP here. I was looking at a 2008 Seat Leon 1.4 tsi, 122 bhp.

I decided to mail an independent garage with a good reputation to see what they would charge for replacing the timing chain, just in case ! sent them the Reg etc

Their reply was this:

"this vehicle with the CAXC engine is known for having timing chain and other issues.

I am sorry but we really couldn’t recommend the purchase of a vehicle with that engine, they really were one of the less reliable VW engines of the last ten years and we’d be reluctant to carry out major work on this particular engine.

Sadly, we cannot quote for this work."

I know only one opinion but I'm totally put off this car now. Anyone have any more comments ?

The usual cop out reply from a garage who would prefer over priced servicing jobs. Regular servicing is the key with these engines. I've 104,000 km on mine and it's going perfectly. If the worst comes to the worst George Dalton will do it for €750. I wonder what their opinion is on the 1.2 three cylinder , easily the worst engine ever made by VW

obi604

jca wrote: »

The usual cop out reply from a garage who would prefer over priced servicing jobs. Regular servicing is the key with these engines. I've 104,000 km on mine and it's going perfectly. If the worst comes to the worst George Dalton will do it for €750. I wonder what their opinion is on the 1.2 three cylinder , easily the worst engine ever made by VW

mmm. I had my heart set on the Leon as I like the fact it's a petrol, decent mpg, has good low end torque and doesn't cost an arm and a leg and looks ok.

But their reply has made me think - they have nothing to loose from this, in fact all they have is gain really (me giving them work) and yet they just plain out tell me to run a mile.......

Looks like I may have to go back to drawing board to find a similiar type car within budget.

jca

obi604 wrote: »

mmm. I had my heart set on the Leon as I like the fact it's a petrol, decent mpg, has good low end torque and doesn't cost an arm and a leg and looks ok.

But their reply has made me think - they have nothing to loose from this, in fact all they have is gain really (me giving them work) and yet they just plain out tell me to run a mile.......

Looks like I may have to go back to drawing board to find a similiar type car within budget.

If the car has a verifiable service history you should go for it. It's a lovely engine and being the 122bhp version it's the one that gives the least trouble. What else will you end up with? A 90 bhp "Eco" diesel 0-60 in three days, the 105 bhp isn't a whole lot better, the diesels aren't without their problems either. God forbid you'll end up with the 1.2 mpi, I'd rather walk.

obi604

jca wrote: »

If the car has a verifiable service history you should go for it. It's a lovely engine and being the 122bhp version it's the one that gives the least trouble. What else will you end up with? A 90 bhp "Eco" diesel 0-60 in three days, the 105 bhp isn't a whole lot better, the diesels aren't without their problems either. God forbid you'll end up with the 1.2 mpi, I'd rather walk.

I hear ya. I just like the way the 122 bhp drives. Relatively decent poke etc.

And the alternative could be a diesel which I don't need as I don't do the miles Or a standard 1.4 petrol 80 Hp, which would drive me mad.


Oh I dunno I'm confused. It's just annoying that if I buy the Leon I have to put in a new timing chain.

and then some people say to run a mile from all this whole scenario.

obi604

Anyone know if another car similar to the VAG 1.4 tsi, 122 bhp ?

Or should I just stick with the Leon

obi604

Any one have any words of wisdom?

George Dalton

You are totally over thinking the situation IMO.

If you like the car buy it.

You'd be unlucky to need to spend the €750 on a replacement chain.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

You are totally over thinking the situation IMO.

If you like the car buy it.

You'd be unlucky to need to spend the €750 on a replacement chain.

could be, what do you think of that garages reply ? I was just surprised by it.

are we in the Celtic era time again where certain people wont do certain jobs.

George Dalton

obi604 wrote: »

could be, what do you think of that garages reply ? I was just surprised by it.

are we in the Celtic era time again where certain people wont do certain jobs.

Their reply would suggest that they aren't set up to do the job so just fobbed you off.

If they were actually familiar with the engine in question then they would have been able to give you cost information etc.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

Their reply would suggest that they aren't set up to do the job so just fobbed you off.

If they were actually familiar with the engine in question then they would have been able to give you cost information etc.

Get ya.

And even if I was to get a vehicle inspection done, there is no real way of telling if there is a timing chain issue or not - correct ?

George Dalton

There is no way of telling until it gets bad enough to log a fault code.

But if you buy a car with low mileage and decent history you should be safe enough.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

There is no way of telling until it gets bad enough to log a fault code.

But if you buy a car with low mileage and decent history you should be safe enough.

Are there any tell take signs at all ? Or remove a panel to see if you can see this or that etc ?

George Dalton

No. The chain cannot be accessed without removing all covers etc. At which point inspecting it is pointless and you may as well change it regardless as labour accounts for the majority of the cost of the job. We encountered that exact situation last week on a Golf where the chain has already been changed but there was no record in the history so we changed it again anyway.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

No. The chain cannot be accessed without removing all covers etc. At which point inspecting it is pointless and you may as well change it regardless as labour accounts for the majority of the cost of the job. We encountered that exact situation last week on a Golf where the chain has already been changed but there was no record in the history so we changed it again anyway.

Thanks George.

How long does the job take to replace.

George Dalton

Takes most of a day to get through it on a twin charged car. The 122bhp is slightly quicker as access is better.

obi604

George Dalton wrote: »

Takes most of a day to get through it on a twin charged car. The 122bhp is slightly quicker as access is better.

Thanks. Is the 122bhp chain replacement cheaper ?

jca

The main thing is not to ignore the warning light if you're unfortunate enough to encounter it. If you "Long finger" it the chain will skip, usually when starting and the the engine is ruined.

obi604

jca wrote: »

The main thing is not to ignore the warning light if you're unfortunate enough to encounter it. If you "Long finger" it the chain will skip, usually when starting and the the engine is ruined.

Oh ok. So this warning light is an indicator that The chain is on the way out. At least that's something.

What exactly is the warning light, presume there is no specific one just for the chain.

jca

obi604 wrote: »

Oh ok. So this warning light is an indicator that The chain is on the way out. At least that's something.

What exactly is the warning light, presume there is no specific one just for the chain.

I'm not sure which light it is.....I don't want to see any lights tbh. I think it's the epc light or the one that looks like a little engine. Getting the codes read will show a cam sensor fault, meaning the cam is "falling behind" the crankshaft because the chain is stretched beyond the acceptable tolerance. George will know better but that's approximately what happens.

George Dalton

obi604 wrote: »

Thanks. Is the 122bhp chain replacement cheaper ?

Only slightly.

obi604

is the chain replacement something that I should just do anyway, regardless of if it has the issue or not. Just seems a waste of money to do it if you dont have the problem, but it seems no easy way of telling you have the problem, so a catch 22 situation.

George Dalton

If you were buying a twin charged car then I would say yes do it regardless. But for a 122bhp version I would say no, it is unlikely that you will encounter the problem.

obi604

thanks george.

then in regard to this line from the garage:

"this vehicle with the CAXC engine is known for having timing chain and other issues"

was that just a lazy reply and in fact the "CAXC" engine only applies to the twin charged cars or does the 122 bhp also have the CAXC

obi604

thanks george.

then in regard to this line from the garage:

"this vehicle with the CAXC engine is known for having timing chain and other issues"

was that just a lazy reply and in fact the "CAXC" engine only applies to the twin charged cars or does the 122 bhp also have the CAXC

enumbers

As as been said not overly common for there to be issues on the 122 though even if it does need doing its not the end of the world price wise and Im yet to see one that hasn't given adequate warning that its stretched. Normally manifests itself first with engine management light followed by rough running. A lot of timing belt jobs run to at least half the price of doing a chain on this engine so I dont think it should be a deciding factor on purchase

obi604

enumbers wrote: »

As as been said not overly common for there to be issues on the 122 though even if it does need doing its not the end of the world price wise and Im yet to see one that hasn't given adequate warning that its stretched. Normally manifests itself first with engine management light followed by rough running. A lot of timing belt jobs run to at least half the price of doing a chain on this engine so I dont think it should be a deciding factor on purchase

I suppose all I want is a bit of notice if it is to go wrong.

So I should watch out for these 2 things when expecting the vehicle.

Special Circumstances

I can't help feeling that if this was a Mazda for example then there would be an almost unanimous "do not buy" fatwa on it.Yeah the chain is so bad it won't last as long as a belt even but shur it will give plenty warning before jumping and trashing the valves. Be grand like. Versus "don't stop engine during dpf regen".

I suspect that even if you also had to occasionally change shell bearings bxe tdi style it would still be regarded as the pinnacle of petrol engine engineering by some. Just like a Golf.

obi604

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I can't help feeling that if this was a Mazda for example then there would be an almost unanimous "do not buy" fatwa on it.Yeah the chain is so bad it won't last as long as a belt even but shur it will give plenty warning before jumping and trashing the valves. Be grand like. Versus "don't stop engine during dpf regen".

I suspect that even if you also had to occasionally change shell bearings bxe tdi style it would still be regarded as the pinnacle of petrol engine engineering by some. Just like a Golf.

So your saying to run a mile. and that people on here are just against diesel cars and favour certain brands.

Special Circumstances

obi604 wrote: »

So your saying to run a mile. and that people on here are just against diesel cars and favour certain brands.

I'm saying if it was anything but a german marque, you'd be told to run a mile by many people. You are asking for advice on a forum where the majority own VAG or BMW - so the advice is likely to be skewed.

The reality, for the 120ish bhp model at least, is somewhere between "mighty yoke, very reliable" and "fundamentally flawed, should have been subject to recall,do not buy". Where is it on that scale? Dunno.

obi604

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I'm saying if it was anything but a german marque, you'd be told to run a mile by many people. You are asking for advice on a forum where the majority own VAG or BMW - so the advice is likely to be skewed.

The reality, for the 120ish bhp model at least, is somewhere between "mighty yoke, very reliable" and "fundamentally flawed, should have been subject to recall,do not buy". Where is it on that scale? Dunno.

Ya, I get ya,m that is why im worried, I dont want to buy a car and then have to spend thousands on it. Yes, I may be overthinking things, but everything revolves around money and I dont want to waste money.

yeah, I mean the garage said to more a less run a mile, then others say tis grand, so I just dont know.

Yardleys Lavender

But you've been thinking about buying this car since September - If you like it, buy it. It's 50/50 that the problem will happen. If it does, then you should have taken the don't buy it advice, if it doesn't then sure aren't you winning. Every car will do something funny - I had a 1.6Lt Diesel Focus - everything broke on it.

Stallingrad

Yardleys Lavender wrote: »

It's 50/50 that the problem will happen.

50/50? The chances are very slim. The 1.4tsi is a lovely engine, anyone who is put off due to an unlikely potential failure is nuts.

Yardleys Lavender

The chances are very slim if you owned the car from new and serviced it on time with correct oil.

The person is buying a car that is essentially getting cheaper by the day and as cars get on a little bit in age, are generally not loved as much.

It's an 8 year old car. It's going to have 8 year old problems. The person buying the car must know this. Personally, if I had to factor in possible repairs to a vehicle costing give or take €1000.00 (that is beyond tyres, services, brakes etc) I wouldn't buy it. As I mentioned before, if somebody told me the trouble a 1.6TDI Focus could give, there is no way I would have bought it.

However, the OP has gone from thinking this car would be a bad buy last September on page 1 to being annoyed that somebody said don't buy it later on in the thread.

All I'm saying is if she likes it then buy it. It's probably a grand cheaper then it was last September.

jca

It's down to the op at this stage, we're starting to go around in circles here. I was nervous when I was told about the car I bought but one look at it told me it was a car that was well looked after. The general condition (looking past the valeting muck) will give you a very good indication of its previous life.

Yardleys Lavender

jca wrote: »

It's down to the op at this stage, we're starting to go around in circles here. I was nervous when I was told about the car I bought but one look at it told me it was a car that was well looked after. The general condition (looking past the valeting muck) will give you a very good indication of its previous life.

That and the stamps in the servicing book

jca

Yardleys Lavender wrote: »

That and the stamps in the servicing book

Obviously.

obi604

I think I should open up a poll

Yardleys Lavender

obi604 wrote: »

I think I should open up a poll

No don't do that.

Leonard Hofstadter

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I'm saying if it was anything but a german marque, you'd be told to run a mile by many people. You are asking for advice on a forum where the majority own VAG or BMW - so the advice is likely to be skewed.

The reality, for the 120ish bhp model at least, is somewhere between "mighty yoke, very reliable" and "fundamentally flawed, should have been subject to recall,do not buy". Where is it on that scale? Dunno.

Disagree, the problems with the Mazda MZ-CD are very well documented, and very serious when they arise. A 121 bhp TSI is very unlikely to have a timing chain problem (in stark contrast to the more powerful twincharged versions) and even if it does, it's nowhere near as costly to put right.

For what it's worth I wouldn't touch a BMW with the N47 engine either even if I did want a diesel (which I don't).

obi604

It's just off putting when a chain essentially has to be replaced when it should really last the lifetime of the car. And in this modern day and age, it all simply boils down to a design flaw in the chain or whatever.

jca

With proper fixed interval servicing ( none of that variable servicing malarkey) from day 1, failures of the 122 bhp engine are practically non existent.

Special Circumstances

obi604 wrote: »

It's just off putting when a chain essentially has to be replaced when it should really last the lifetime of the car. And in this modern day and age, it all simply boils down to a design flaw in the chain or whatever.

Nein. It is all these silly pixie heads not using the engine in the same way as our longevity tests.


the “Twincharger” is designed for a long service life – with the same criteria that apply to all power units from Volkswagen*. More than 250 prototype and pilot series engines have been put through their paces in all necessary test cycles. Every single component of this new power plant has been designed for the engine service life and has come through its baptism of fire.

*terms and conditions apply. Weren't ya lucky we sold ya one at all ya ungrateful fecker.

coolbeans

obi604 wrote: »

It's just off putting when a chain essentially has to be replaced when it should really last the lifetime of the car. And in this modern day and age, it all simply boils down to a design flaw in the chain or whatever.

Ah jaysus, this thread is a trial to read. You got lots of good advice. If you're not happy or prone to worrying about the potential problem just look for something else. You seem like a slightly paranoid type and your enjoyment of the car would therefore be affected fault or not.

obi604

coolbeans wrote: »

Ah jaysus, this thread is a trial to read. You got lots of good advice. If you're not happy or prone to worrying about the potential problem just look for something else. You seem like a slightly paranoid type and your enjoyment of the car would therefore be affected fault or not.

Bit harsh 😀

I'm open to suggestions.

Nonoperational

Buy the car if you like it, haggle for a discount and let George change the chain. All sorted.

obi604

I tried to search in other forums, but could not find the answer.

When changing the chain, what are the things that need to be done and parts replaced?
And what are the things you "may as well" do while at it?

obi604

I tried to search in other forums, but could not find the answer.

When changing the chain, what are the things that need to be done and parts replaced?
And what are the things you "may as well" do while at it?

obi604

obi604 wrote: »

I tried to search in other forums, but could not find the answer.

When changing the chain, what are the things that need to be done and parts replaced?
And what are the things you "may as well" do while at it?

Anyone on this ?
I'm in contact with garage selling car and they have said that they may replace the chain.

So I just want to be sure in exactly what should be done. I think I've heard you do the water pump also and guide rails - but not sure, so only guessing.

obi604

bump

obi604

obi604 wrote: »

Anyone on this ?
I'm in contact with garage selling car and they have said that they may replace the chain.

So I just want to be sure in exactly what should be done. I think I've heard you do the water pump also and guide rails - but not sure, so only guessing.

I seem to remember a post somewhere before that listed the parts needed for this as well as the "may as well" do things whilst the chain is being replaced.

I searched the forums but could not find the list.

Can anyone help?